Golden Saber Question

[MikeNice]

I have recently been told that there is now a bonded version of Remmington's Golden Saber ammo. However, I have not seen it listed anywhere. Remmington's site dosn't mention a bonded version. It still seems like the old Gold Saber.

Is there a bonded version? If there is, how do you tell the difference?

I've been interested in GS for a while, but fell more comfortable using newer bonded hollow points.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

They have Golden Sabre in bonded form... http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/am_mle_hpjbond.htm

The box will say "Bonded" on it...its marketed as "LE and Military only", but keep looking...you'll find some somewhere (your local cop shop maybe)

 

[basicblur]

Yes, they do make it.

From my inventory notes, I have:
9mm Remington 124 gr. Golden Saber Bonded +P 1180 fps / 384 ft. lbs GSB9MMD
357 SIG Remington 125 gr. Golden Saber Bonded 1350 fps / 506 ft. lbs GSB357SB

Don't know where you are in NC, but I regularly hit Lawmen's (got a great deal on the Remington 357 SIG) and Fuquay Gun & Gold (great deal on 9mm Federal HST +P).

I'm not that picky on SD ammo-I love to make a pass 'bout once a month on a number of police supply houses etc to see what they're trying to clear out.

 

[valorius]

I fired 7rds of Golden Saber out of my .380 a couple weeks ago, and of the 7rds, 3 of them were just slightly above squib loads.

Thank god it wasn't a defensive situation.

 

[MikeNice]

Thanks for the information guys. I was looking in all of the places I look for civilian ammo. I didn't realize it was restricted to military and law enforcement sales.

Basic, does Lawmen's require the purchaser to be a LEO? I live close enough to Raleigh that it might be worth the trip.

 

[Miked7762]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought only the bonded Golden Sabers have been produced for quite a while now. Am I incorrect?

 

[Ridgerunner665]

You are incorrect...to the best of my knowledge, but then I don't know much.


That would be the first I had heard of it...and I've shot a few of them, good bullets...but they do come apart. (I'm referring to the non bonded ones here)

 

[Snowdog]

Yeah, they exist plenty... and you don't need to be LEO to get them in NC (or any JHP, to my knowledge).



I've read they stay together just as well as Gold Dot since they're bonded. I have also read they don't expand as readily, though I don't know how accurate this information is.

 

[CeeZar]

See also Federal HST and Winchester Ranger bonded ammo.

 

[basicblur]

Basic, does Lawmen's require the purchaser to be a LEO? I live close enough to Raleigh that it might be worth the trip.

Don't have to be an LEO to purchase at Lawmen's-can't tell you what all he carries, but I did buy the 357 SIG Golden Sabre Bonded there. Think they're not going to carry them any longer-I know he has a lot of Gold Dots in various calibers.

If you make a trip to the Raleigh area, you might try these places also:
1. Eagle 1 Law Enforcement Supply (never been since it's always to the NE of my ammo run loop, but recommended-I plan on making 'em my first stop next trip down).
2. Fuquay Gun & Gold-$20/50 rds of Federal HST 9mm +P, but he had only 1 box (which I got). Interesting place-first place I've seen that sells Tannerite.
3. Lawmens-I seem to pick up a few boxes of various SD ammo every time down, but he does have very small limits on purchases due to the shortage. Think he allows only 2 boxes of 9mm, 1 box 380, don't recall on 357 SIG or 40.

If you really want to make it a road trip, if you continue on to Greensboro you'll pass Mace Sports on I-40 @ Mebane NC, and there's Streicher's in Greensboro.
Mace sports prices are nuttin' to get excited about, but it is a big store with lots of consumer shooting accessories. Can't tell ya 'bout Streichers-interesting looking SD ammo online, prices not too bad-I've bought only small stuff from 'em (Flashlights, PMAGs, etc).

Heck, get a buddy or two (to cover Lawmen's limits?) and make a day of it? I make a gun shop loop 'bout once a month, and have carried an extra body to get around the purchase limits.
Just got back from Town Police Supply in Collinsville VA today-he has an ammo sale going on also.
1. 10 box limit-Federal RHT Frangible 9mm $9.99/50
2. Federal 9mm +P+ 9BPLE $23.99/50
3. Federal 40 $12.99/50 (didn't need any, so can't give you specifics-just practice ammo).

Ya gotta know-I'm a cheap SOB-I have to hit a number of places to see who has a deal going-they all seem to have 1 or 2 items at good prices.

Are you on the Greensboro side of Raleigh or ?

 

[RyanM]

The bonded ones don't perform as well as standard Golden Sabers through heavy clothing, but do perform better through glass and other hard barriers. I'd stick with the standard ones.

 

[MikeNice]

Basic, I'm about four miles from Mace. That is actually my favorite shop in the area. Their prices aren't great, but compared to most of the other shops I've been to they are golden.

You can pick up a Walther PK380 for $350 if you don't haggle. One of their employees said he could "do $275" on a NIB Taurus TCP 380. A lot of their guns are below MSRP.

Last time I was in Raleigh I stopped by a shop that was asking $450 for the Walther and $350 for the Taurus.

Thanks for all of the great information.

 

[basicblur]

Last time I was in Raleigh I stopped by a shop that was asking $450 for the Walther and $350 for the Taurus.

Yup-those high priced shops seem to be a dime a dozen!
I don't look at handguns too much in NC since it's across the state line-fortunately, we're blessed with a no-haggle shop (he just hangs a low price on 'em-take it or leave it) in my hometown.

Don't know what you're in the market for-I buy all my practice ammo @ WalMart or Town Police Supply when he has a sale. I buy all my SD ammo at various police supply houses on my normal ammo run.

Ya gotta be a smart shopper these days-prices are all over the place on some of the SD ammo I've bought.

FWIW-I have had good luck with Ammunition To Go for SD ammo online-get a few buddies together and their shipping ain't so bad.
Got to keep a check on 'em as their prices do seem to swing a lot.

 

[Dream Catcher]

The bonded ones don't perform as well as standard Golden Sabers through heavy clothing, but do perform better through glass and other hard barriers. I'd stick with the standard ones.

i never thought about this one. thanks for this nice piece of info.

 

[Mr. S]

Not sure what caliber you are looking for but he has some in stock.

http://www.prestostore.com/cgi-bin/store.pl?ref=hotpig27&ct=66261

 

[lwknight]

I found this thread fizzing out so I want to make a drift rather than starting another.

I have worked with 124 grain 9mm GS for awhile and 6.0 grains WSF (90% cap)gets me 1220 fps with impressive water jug tests.
Now I'm starting to work up 9mm GD 147 grain loads. 6.0 grains is 100% capacity only gets me 1050 fps.

It would seem logical to have the same energy with the same charge and maybe even higher energy from a heavier bullet since some powder is waste in short barrels with light barrels.

Problem and question:
124 grains @1220 fps = 410 lb.ft.
147 graind @1050 fps =360 lb.ft.

Can anyone comment on real life performance test comparing these 2 bullets and is 1050 fps considered plenty good for SD situations. I know that some people think a .380 will do the job but, I do not subscribe to that belief.

If I really want to push the limits I can get 1300 fps from a 124 grain bullet with 460 lb.ft energy but its hard on the gun.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Kinetic energy is not a valid measure of a bullet's ability to produce rapid incapacitation.

Handgun bullets merely poke holes. The effects of temporary cavitation ("tissue splash"), a product of energy transfer, depend on what tissues are involved. The temporary cavity produced by high-energy-transfer handgun bullets usually doesn't exceed 3 1/2 - 4 inches in diameter. The maximum temporary cavity is located at the beginning of the wound track - thus a high energy bullet that encounters liver at the beginning of the wound track is going to produce greater permanent disruption of liver tissue than the same bullet that encounters the liver at a location farther along the wound track where temporary cavitation is minimal. Likewise a bullet that first hits an arm, perforating it, and then penetrates the torso, will produce its maximum temporary cavity in the arm. The torso wound will have very little temporary cavitation effect.

Shooting bullets into water filled jugs produces spectacular splashes, but the splash is not a valid measure of a bullet's suitability for self-defense. I once tested .44 Magnum Glaser Blue - shooting it into a row of water filled cardboard milk cartons. The first carton was was literally torn apart but NONE of the pellets exited the first milk carton to penetrate the second milk carton.

Placement and penetration are the keys to producing a wound that will quickly incapacitate. The bullet's path through the body must intersect and damage/destroy tissues that are critical to immediate survival.

When I handloaded Remington 9mm 147gr Golden Saber bullets for defense ammo I used 5.5gr of Vhitavouri 3N37, which, when fired from my Glock 19, propelled the bullet at 985 fps, measured by chronograph - identical to the Remington factory load. I used VV 3N37 because of it's low muzzle flash qualities and it metered well.