Good .357 mag FMJ for my 1894 rifle

[ryanrichmond]

I'm looking for a good FMJ round in .357 for my Marlin 1894.
This ammo will double as target practice ammo and defense ammo against 2 legged vermin.

I am under the impression that a [heavy] FMJ .357 coming out of a rifle is plenty to stop a human.

So...what is a good (heavy) FMJ .357 round? Thanks for the info.

 

[Random Discharge]

Not so sure about a heavy FMJ. I think anything in FMJ out of a 357 rifle, light or heavy, will pretty much put two 0.357 holes in whatever you shoot. One in, one out, and a lot of wasted energy and risk behind/past, instead of in, your target.

Since you are using a 357 rifle, you will have plenty of energy to both penetrate and expand. In most revolvers too, for that matter. Why FMJ?

Sorry to drift from your original question, but out of a rifle, a 158gr JHP or 180gr JHP seems like the ticket. If you handload, Hornady offers a 158gr XTP/FP JHP. It is a little more closed at the point (more like a FMJ if you will) than the "normal" 158 gr XTP/HP JHP to have better controlled expansion for the higher velocities out of 357 rifles. I use them in my 10" Contender single shot with max velocity H110/W296 loads for hunting (~1600 fps). Same reason.

 

[rcmodel]

You DO NOT want FMJ!

That is what the military has to use under conventions of war, and it wouldn't be all that great a stopper at .357 velocity.

What you want is Jacketed Hollow-Point.
125, 140, or 158 grain bullet weight.
No sense going any heavier then that, as expansion would be less, and over-penetration would be a greater safety risk for innocent bystanders down the street.

Any name brand of JHP self-defense revolver ammo will work perfectly fine out of a carbine.

rc

 

[CraigC]

FMJ is terrible on flesh, two or four legged. What you need is a good 158-180gr JHP. Or a decent cast bullet.

 

[ryanrichmond]

Ok FMJ is horrible for my application...why?

 

[rcmodel]

Folks already told you in the above posts.

Did you read them?

Anyway, FMJ .357 Mag ammo is about as hard to find as unicorns.

Very little of it loaded, because it won't do anything a JHP, JSP, or LSWC won't do much better.

rc

 

[ryanrichmond]

Folks already told you in the above posts.

Did you read them?

Anyway, FMJ .357 Mag ammo is about as hard to find as unicorns.

Very little of it loaded, because it won't do anything a JHP, JSP, or LSWC won't do much better.

rc

Yeah I did, did you?
"FMJ is bad" isn't a very good answer.

 

[lobo9er]

Ok FMJ is horrible for my application...why?

over penetration. zing in and out, hollow point will expand and have a better chance staying with the objest that is shot. youtube has alot of video with ballistic gel showing the difference.

 

[ryanrichmond]

over penetration. zing in and out, hollow point will expand and have a better chance staying with the objest that is shot. youtube has alot of video with ballistic gel showing the difference.

thanks

 

[beatledog7]

In a word, over-penetration.

 

[lobo9er]

seeing the effect of different stuff in ballistic gel is the best way to see how things work.

 

[Danny Creasy]

It will not expand and thus be inefficient for your purpose of ending a confrontation.

It wil over penetrate and thus be more likely to injure or kill an innocent located in another room or house or pasture.

 

[rcmodel]

Yeah I did, did you?
"FMJ is bad" isn't a very good answer.

I gave you an answer in post #3.
And that wasn't what I said.

Go back and read it.

rc

 

[Four Knives]

Simmer, friend.

RC is a longstanding and very informative poster.

FMJ won't expand much if at all, which means you will not have max impact on your target, and will risk a projectile still traveling very fast on its exit, thereby risking damage to any human or other object BEYOND your target.

All that said...congrats on the 1894...they're dynamite!

I'm happy w/Walmart Remington or Winchester JHP rounds which are nearly as cheap as you can get for the round.

Or, for 'truer' (and more spendy) defense rounds, you might want to look up some Buffalo Bore, or Gold Dot, or possibly even Hornady LeverEvolution.

Hope this helps you find what you're after.

 

[Four Knives]

Oh, and if you pick up Gold Dot...make sure you're getting the full power loads.

Chances are, if you grab a box that has 135 grain rounds, it's their 'short barrel' loading for use in snub revolvers, and is a very nerfed round overall IMO

 

[ryanrichmond]

Thanks for the info. So to answer my question, what is a decent .357 FMJ? In my experiences, FMJ ammo is cheaper to shoot and I'd like to practice more than I do.

 

[Random Discharge]

For defense, you want the energy of the bullet to damage your target. A JHP will expand and dump its energy in your target, doing lots of damage along the way. A FMJ will zing through your target making a tiny hole and leaving much less energy IN your target. Then continue on behind your target with a lot of its energy unused (i.e., wasted, because you want the energy IN your target, not behind it) to hit and damage who knows what you didn't intend to also shoot.

Because the FMJ does not expand, the weight of the FMJ won't help or hurt its poor performance much one way or another. Any weight FMJ is still going to zing through your target.

A heavier JHP, as rcmodel points out, will tend more toward the bad characteristics of a FMJ. The heavier the bullet, the greater "oomph" it has pushing on the same diameter area - so it penetrates more and dumps energy less (not good, unless you are hunting larger thick skinned animals, and need to peentrate more - but those beasts have more than 2 legs!).

rcmodel is right on target. I should not have mentioned 180gr JHP for defense for this reason. Or the Hornady 158 XTP/FP JHP, because they are also deasigned to err on the side of pentration (but I stand behind the regular 158gr XTP JHP recommendation ;-). Hunting? Another story. I got side tracked, cause I load 357 to hunt!

 

[Four Knives]

Generally speaking, you're correct in that FMJ is cheaper to shoot.

However, .357 is semi pricey, and as RC had mentioned, you may have trouble finding 357 FMJ... I just looked at my stash and I don't have ANY.

HOWWWWEVER, for plinking fun, you will find Winchester or Remington .38 Special FMJ ammo at your local walmart which will be cheaper than .357 and will make your 1894 like a Red Ryder BB gun...so much fun.

Your carbine can shoot 38 special or 357 loads. You will likely not want to use the same rounds for 'target practice' AND defense. Of course dependent on how much you like to target practice, and whether cost is no issue for ya.

** 38 special will shoot to a different point of impact than .357, so you'll want to test some of your 'spendier' defense rounds to see where they print vs. your 'practice' rounds.

 

[ryanrichmond]

I suppose I'd just like to get used to the power of the .357 since that's what I'd be using in a defense situation.
Sorry, RC, if I came off a little jerky. I know you were trying to give me sound advice and I appreciate it. You guys have actually gotten me thinking more about bullet weight. Before, I just assumed a heavier bullet would mean better results but now I realize that's not necessarily true. Thanks for the info.
I guess I'll just practice with HP

 

[Domino]

FMJ loads have never been popular in .357 Magnum because the caliber was never adopted by a major military thus it was never subjected to the Hague convention like other military calibers. Also, FMJ is not the cheapest or most practical for target shooting. I would suggest you try a 158g LSWC by Hornady or similar for target shooting.

My personal preference for self defense .357 Magnum bullets out of my 1894 or the Hornady 158g XTP's. I load them with 17g of Lil' gun and I get good accuracy (~2 MOA) and excellent performance. I would prefer a good 158g SP but for the price and accuracy of the Hornady's, it becomes the better choice.

However, I do think it is a little disingenuous to say that FMJ is horrible for two legged critters. While quality HP, SP, and HC loads will generally outperform FMJ in the .357 caliber, the FMJ is still no joke out of a 18" rifle. FMJ's are not ideal but countless people and animals have been killed with them in weaker calibers than the .357 Magnum.

 

[CraigC]

However, I do think it is a little disingenuous to say that FMJ is horrible for two legged critters.

Try it on four legged critters and report back. For those of us who already have, we know that FMJ performs terribly. Unlike a good SWC or LBT design, FMJ will zip right through with little to no tissue disruption.

 

[BCRider]

Look around at the price of factory loaded .357Mag. Then start looking at getting a modest reloading setup. The money you'll save from reloading will easily pay for the loading setup in a year or less depending on how much you shoot. But other than that a hearty "DITTO" to the suggestions to use JHP. The extra velocity will ensure a really good mushrooming of the bullet and help reduce the risk of it having a lot of energy if/when it comes out the other side.

You'll want to start each type of JHP with a few test rounds until you find that it feeds correctly in your lever gun. Revolvers don't care what the bullet looks like so folks can often get away with murder for nose shapes. But lever rifles have much the same needs for chambering as found in semi autos where the bullet nose shape counts for a lot. So whatever ammo you buy get only one box at first and try it. If it works well then you can consider buying a bunch. If it doesn't feel well at all and jams with fast reloadings then use it in a revolver or sell the remainder cheap to a buddy with a revolver.

Guys, I wa under the impression that shooting .357 from a rifle results in about a 200 fps velocity gain. Given that the darn things are already around 1300'ish depending on load I don't see the bullet suddenly becoming an elephant killer. Oh sure, there's still all the issues of expansion and over penetration and the like and the responsibility of knowing what's behind the bad guy about to be ventilated. But it's not like the round suddenly turns into a .338Lapua or anything.

 

[CraigC]

The .357 seems to gain more from rifle barrels than any other revolver cartridge. Some loads as much as 700fps! More like 400-500fps on average. Even my moderate .44Mag loads with Unique gain 400fps.

 

[cfullgraf]

Besides, you probably do not want FMJs in a tubular magazine.

rcmodel has excellent recommendations and information.

158 JHPs shoot great in my 1894. I would not feel under gunned with it while defending my homestead.

 

[P5 Guy]

ryanrichmond, the only FMJ 357Mag that comes to my mind is American Eagle but it is 130gr.
I've seen 158 and 180 JFP in 357MAG.
For cheap practice ammo in 357MAG LSWC maybe the most economical. I handload so buying ammo is a distant past thing for me. WWB from the local WallMart is a direction to look.
FMJ is used by the military because it is supposedly more humane to shoot the enemy and not hurt him too bad. This makes that style of bullet a poor choice for Home Defense. Thru & thru wounds with little disruption of tissue, over penetration, and you just might shoot the people standing downrange of your intended target. None of which is a good thing.