Good AK-47?
- Thread starter Hunter125
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philpost
Member
So everyone who owns a stamped AK is just too incompetant to realize it's trash? Or maybe we just don't have your discriminating eye? You know, there's a big difference between having an opinion and being opinionated; I'm perfectly willing to debate the merits of AK's vs. SKS's, but you really don't need to insult other peoples choices. If you ask me, when a design has been in production for 63 years, it's got to have something going for it.
Maverick223
Member
I find that the milled one only comes with added weight and better looks. I would take a lightweight stamped one over the milled AK any day. Make my milled carbine a VZ.58, so I can retain the light weight.
FightDiary
Member
Anything "Arsenal" is good, pricey but you get what you pay for.
7.62mm.ak47
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I know I'll probably take some heat with this but I have a WASR-10 and love it. It was about $400 and came with 3 tapco mags. Post 2007 models are mil-spec (Romanian military lol) and come with a tapco trigger that doesn't have the trigger slap that was originally a problem. If it has a triangle on the front trunnion then buy it man. They'll take hi-cap mags and can take a beating. Make sure to put some finish on the wood furniture though since it's pretty raw out of the box.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
As long as everything is on straight, pretty much all of them work fine, from the cheap Romanian WASR's to the high-end >$1K models. Fit and finish is better as you move upmarket, though, if that's important to you.
BushyGuy
Member
Ak47's are going like wildfire right now, its hard to find a good deal on a good AK.
Best AK47 is the thick Milled recievers, they are in the AR price range but they are way better then the stamped AK47.
Best AK47 is the thick Milled recievers, they are in the AR price range but they are way better then the stamped AK47.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Better in fit and finish, certainly, and some consider the milled to look better as well. Functionally, there's really no difference between stamped or milled, assuming an equivalent quality barrel; the stamped receiver is just as durable, plenty rugged, and (in the case of the 1mm/1.2mm versions) lighter. Of course, stamped or milled, once you get up into that degree of fit and finish, you are pretty much in AR-cost territory, as you point out.
plmcrzy
Member
I also have a WASR 10-63, Centry build. I got lucky, as mine didn't come with some of the problems as others. I purchased one with poly furniture, also has tapco g2 triger, and tapco slanted brake, total cost was $435.00 out the door. It shoots well, and not a hicup so far with approx. 300 rounds through her. Not the best, or prettiest, but I bought mine to shoot the hell out of, so it works for me, best of luck with whatever you choose................Mark
Stamped or milled the quality of an AK is dependent upon the quality of the parts, the receiver and the build.
I have been in courses where cheap Century Romak rifles ran right alongside Arsenal milled Bulgarian pedigree rifles and Russian Saigas and even expensive Krebs AKs. None of them suffered any failures running a thousand rounds through them in a couple of days. On the other hand, I've handled rifles from poor builds that just didn't run properly and that wouldn't take mags.
Try to purchase firearms built on kits that didn't come off of worn out milsurp rifles. Unissued to kit is preferable. Try to purchase firearms that have a reasonable quality finish. Cheap coatings will only provide problems after a while. Spend a little extra on this.
You can spend $1200 on a top shelf AK or you can spend $500 on a gun that will probably run just as well, but another hundred or two will pretty much guarantee a gun without feeding problems or mag well problems and without ill fitting furniture.
As far as I'm concerned you can't get a better value than one of the AKs from http://www.inrangec2.com/?ammoland
I have been in courses where cheap Century Romak rifles ran right alongside Arsenal milled Bulgarian pedigree rifles and Russian Saigas and even expensive Krebs AKs. None of them suffered any failures running a thousand rounds through them in a couple of days. On the other hand, I've handled rifles from poor builds that just didn't run properly and that wouldn't take mags.
Try to purchase firearms built on kits that didn't come off of worn out milsurp rifles. Unissued to kit is preferable. Try to purchase firearms that have a reasonable quality finish. Cheap coatings will only provide problems after a while. Spend a little extra on this.
You can spend $1200 on a top shelf AK or you can spend $500 on a gun that will probably run just as well, but another hundred or two will pretty much guarantee a gun without feeding problems or mag well problems and without ill fitting furniture.
As far as I'm concerned you can't get a better value than one of the AKs from http://www.inrangec2.com/?ammoland
I'm not seeing this, the prices have come way down in the last year.
I have a WASR-10 and haven't had any probs with it. It came with a side folder stock which to my supprise was pretty aqurate. I decided to buy a traditional wood stock too. I am happy. No regreats. Oh, don't forget to get plenty of mags and ammo. Watch what kind of ammo you buy. Some indoor ranges won't let you shoot steel core ammo.
kingvillien
Member
Where can I find the mil-spec ones? Have you found any, if so from what distributor/gunshop?
lobo9er
Member
century has milled AK's for 700 right now. I am a milled fan.
For whatever reason, the used AK market isn't catching up to new prices. WASR's are back down into the $350-$400 "new", but I keep seeing used ones for $450. I guess all the panic buyers are having a hard time accepting the loss they're deservedly taking on these guns. Maybe those guys are finding suckers to buy these things from them, but for my money, a $400 new gun ain't worth a whole lot over $300 used. Oh well though, it ain't my money.
It's not just AK's either... I mean, how many used S&W Sigma 9ve's have you seen on gun boards listed at $350, $375 or $400? I've seen about a dozen this summer!
Anyhow, to address the OP: An AK is not a refined design to start with, so for my money, a cheap but reliable, ugly, 4moa blasting machine what I'd expect. I mean nothing derogatory by that; I respect the AK for what it is (read: previous sentence). Besides, most of the best-looking AK's I've seen involved cans of Minwax and Duracoat, not $700 price tags.
I've yet to read compelling evidence that a milled reciever does anything for the AK design aside from make it look better. They do "feel" of a higher quality, but I'm not convinced that they are a big step up. I had a stamped one a while back, and I'm pretty sure I could have dragged it behind a truck for several hundred miles, then picked it up and fired it successfully. I liked it for a while, then moved on to AR's. My suggestion would be to read up on what to look for (most common issues are poorly assembled/crooked sights and moderate to severe issues with magazine fit), handle a couple, and pick a decent one off the used rack at a gun or pawn shop. Then take it out and treat it the way it deserves to be treated (poorly)!
Oh, and one last thing: I agree with those who said that the SKS is likely to give you more accuracy at distance. I've never owned one, but that seems to be pretty much the accepted conventional wisdom. Zero experience with the Mini-30, but I generally do like, respect and trust most of what Ruger offers.
It's not just AK's either... I mean, how many used S&W Sigma 9ve's have you seen on gun boards listed at $350, $375 or $400? I've seen about a dozen this summer!
Anyhow, to address the OP: An AK is not a refined design to start with, so for my money, a cheap but reliable, ugly, 4moa blasting machine what I'd expect. I mean nothing derogatory by that; I respect the AK for what it is (read: previous sentence). Besides, most of the best-looking AK's I've seen involved cans of Minwax and Duracoat, not $700 price tags.
I've yet to read compelling evidence that a milled reciever does anything for the AK design aside from make it look better. They do "feel" of a higher quality, but I'm not convinced that they are a big step up. I had a stamped one a while back, and I'm pretty sure I could have dragged it behind a truck for several hundred miles, then picked it up and fired it successfully. I liked it for a while, then moved on to AR's. My suggestion would be to read up on what to look for (most common issues are poorly assembled/crooked sights and moderate to severe issues with magazine fit), handle a couple, and pick a decent one off the used rack at a gun or pawn shop. Then take it out and treat it the way it deserves to be treated (poorly)!
Oh, and one last thing: I agree with those who said that the SKS is likely to give you more accuracy at distance. I've never owned one, but that seems to be pretty much the accepted conventional wisdom. Zero experience with the Mini-30, but I generally do like, respect and trust most of what Ruger offers.
Maverick223
Member
Milled is made from a solid block of steel and is milled (hence the name) to form the final shape and accommodate the internal parts. Technically all AK-47s are milled, and a stamped sheet metal version (with front/rear trunnions and rivets to hold the bits together) is a AKM (M=modernized). Despite the construction method a milled rifle is much heavier (by about 2lbs), and not any more durable nor reliable than a stamped AKM. In fact a well constructed AKM will be both more reliable and more durable than a poorly constructed milled AK (CAIs often exhibit poor workmanship and materials).
OTOH the similar (in appearance, very different internally) VZ.58 mentioned earlier also has a milled receiver, but it is lighter (amongst other favorable features) than the stamped AK making it much handier IMO, also it can be found for similar prices as a milled AK.
BushyGuy
Member
Milled recievers also help with accuracy and also dissipate the heat alot better then a thin stamped pieve of metal.
I have fired both milled and stamped AK47, i got better accuracy from the milled AK, the stamped AK felt much hotter to handle then the milled one.
i am thinking about buying an AK next year, i rather buy a good one with good quality.
I have fired both milled and stamped AK47, i got better accuracy from the milled AK, the stamped AK felt much hotter to handle then the milled one.
i am thinking about buying an AK next year, i rather buy a good one with good quality.
Maverick223
Member
IMO they are only more accurate due to the additional weight. As far as heat dissipation, they do not dissipate heat any better, though they do have more heat capacitance (the ability to absorb heat), unfortunately this isn't important because the receiver doesn't get very hot on an AK. The vast majority of the heat is from the gas system (touch an AK gas block after a magazine for a quick lesson in this), and the barrel, so a more massive receiver with greater capacitance does little to combat this. The best method would be to simply add more surface area to the gas tube (by the addition of a heat sink and cooling fins). To an extent this has been employed on AKs in the form of a star shaped (or folded) gas tube that increases surface area and therefore promotes faster heat loss via convection.
surplusfan
Member
WASR10/63 for $380 is a good functional AK, or if you want one that's really top of the line and close to the current issue Russian type, Arsenal SGL21 for $700. The Yugo M70s also tend to be good deals for the money but before purchasing one I'd recommend research to find out more about them since those have a few differences from other AK types. Avoid Lancaster, not because they're necessarily bad (many are good), but because if something isn't right their customer service right now is widely considered to be terrible (BBB rating "F"). Get an original European chrome lined barrel if you can. Yugo M70 has US-made non-chrome Green Mountain barrel and this too is OK but requires immediate attention if using the corrosive Yugo surplus ammo. The M70s tend to have good accuracy.
If you're considering an AK74 type, avoid anything with a US-made 5.45 barrel. Many problems have been reported.
At the moment I think the best deals are the WASR10/63 and SGL21 (7.62x39) or SGL31(5.45x39). AIM has these or will soon if currently out of stock.
If you're considering an AK74 type, avoid anything with a US-made 5.45 barrel. Many problems have been reported.
At the moment I think the best deals are the WASR10/63 and SGL21 (7.62x39) or SGL31(5.45x39). AIM has these or will soon if currently out of stock.
PAULREVERE
Member
Mak90 and de-ban it. One of the best,if not the best AK's ever and it's easy to do the compliance thingy.
lobo9er
Member
milled reciever in my opinion is a better buy
With ak fans theres two camps one who favors milled and the one favors stamped.
solid milled or bent sheet metal, you decide.
accuracy is better also due to the fact stamped have alot more movement between parts. in addition I know of two separate stamped ak's owned by friends where rivets became lose after 1000 rounds. They weren't falling apart but it was told to me that there was noticable difference in rattle, accuracy and over all rigidness in the guns. One was a high end and one was middle of the road. maverick is free buy stamped but my money would be on a milled. and if comes down to low end stamped or low end milled the milled In my opinion will be a more solid starting point. Thats just me and I could be wrong.
With ak fans theres two camps one who favors milled and the one favors stamped.
solid milled or bent sheet metal, you decide.
accuracy is better also due to the fact stamped have alot more movement between parts. in addition I know of two separate stamped ak's owned by friends where rivets became lose after 1000 rounds. They weren't falling apart but it was told to me that there was noticable difference in rattle, accuracy and over all rigidness in the guns. One was a high end and one was middle of the road. maverick is free buy stamped but my money would be on a milled. and if comes down to low end stamped or low end milled the milled In my opinion will be a more solid starting point. Thats just me and I could be wrong.
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lobo9er
Member
The Vz rifles are good idea also and if your not already invested in ak mags I would check out a Vz. milled reciever last round hold open and light
Full disclosure: I don't own any milled AKs.
That being said, so long as your rifle wasn't built with absolutely horrid quality standards (rattling rivets is just unsat) either will do just fine. So long as it was properly constructed -- using either process -- you're not going to break an AK, and it'll shoot well enough for any combat scenario within the ballistic performance of the 7.62x39.
That being said, so long as your rifle wasn't built with absolutely horrid quality standards (rattling rivets is just unsat) either will do just fine. So long as it was properly constructed -- using either process -- you're not going to break an AK, and it'll shoot well enough for any combat scenario within the ballistic performance of the 7.62x39.
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