Good home defense hand gun for first-time owner?

[Brian Williams]

First off Welcome to THR
2nd What ever gun you get look for a good range and each of you shoot it for at least 2 boxes of inexpensive ammo like winchester white box at walmart. Do this, Shoot the first whole box at 10 to 15 feet at a small target (6 inch dot on a sheet of paper) on a large sheet of cardboard (4 foot SQ). This way you can see where the shots hit. Then for the next box shoot 10 shots with your right hand, 10 shots with your left hand, 10 shots with both hands, then shoot the last 20; 5 each at 7, 10, 15, 20 yards.

Last Get a good Revolver, I prefer a S&W. But the following are good guns, Taurus, Ruger, Colt, and S&W.
Get at least a 38 Special and a 357 is fine, and you can shoot 38 specials in a 357 magnum. But do not try to shoot 357s in a 38.
As to the format of the revolver get at least a 3" barrel and at most a 4" barrel. Something like these

 

[Sistema1927]

I will throw in another vote for a 4", 6 shot, steel frame, .357 revolver.

Simple manual of arms, easy to practise using .38 ammo, handy enough to use in enclosed spaces, and .357 magnum power for self-defense.

S&W, Taurus, Ruger, Colt, Rossi, etc. all make decent models at a range of prices. Good buys on police trade-ins.

 

[Sistema1927]

Brian Williams,

My eyes, MY EYES!

Rubber grips on a pencil barrel S&W!

Is that a 64? My pencil barrel 64 is a square butt, I don't think that I have ever seen a round butt 4" model. My 2nd edition SCSW (pg. 181) says that the tapered barrel 4" only came with a square butt, but I have noticed other errors in the past that possibly the 3rd edition will correct.

 

[JesseTX]

I woke up a while ago and have been reading through these replies with my coffee.

Some very, very good information everybody. I really do appreciate it.

After having read through all of this I'm leaning towards the Smith and Wesson 686 4 inch 6-shot.

One problem with a shotgun is my wife - she's intimidated enough as it is by guns. I really can't ever see her firing a shotgun. She's also a very small lady so big-time recoil would put a dent in her.

And, as somebody else brought up, the revolver allows me to hold it tucked behind my back when answering the front door as well.

Another stupid question, folks:

This firearm will take both the .357 magnum and a .38 special, correct? What are the differences other than the .38 special is a little easier to fire (this is what I keep reading online)

 

[MechAg94]

I would 2nd the 4" barreled revolver. Make sure you both handle them before buying. Different revolvers have different grips so they will feel different in your hands. I know I don't like the feel of all revolvers.

I would avoid a semi-auto pistol like a Glock or other unless you feel you will get interested in shooting. Semi-auto pistols are not that complicated, but they can be for those that are inexperienced or unpracticed. Revolvers are easy to use, easy to load, easy to unload, and easy to tell if they are loaded. Also, the double action trigger is normally pretty stiff and long. You won't likely pull the trigger unless you really mean to.

Another suggestion, they make little zip pouches and such for store guns in. I would suggest something like that. They will keep dust and stuff off the pistol, keep stuff from getting wedged in the trigger well, and will still allow easy access if you need it.

One final suggestion: If you have kids, teach them to use the gun. Teach them basic safety. Show them what happens when they pull the trigger. One of my easliest memmories is my Dad helping me hold a .357 mag revolver while I pulled the trigger. If the muzzle blast doesn't make the point, show them the target or piece of wood the bullet hit. It is a good lesson kids should learn. If they have shot it before and you make them familiar with it, it becomes less of a point of curiosity that they will try to get hold of when you are not around.

 

[tenisiejer]

TOO " Heavy "

My opinion , only... I think that a 357, 44mag, etc is too much gun for a non user.. Why break your arm... One previous suggestion was a Shotgun. Yes, a double barrel 20 Ga. with a 20 inch Barrel would be quite intimidating, However, I owned a LAMMA 380. ( 9mm short )Auto that was a real sweet heart. Very accurate, very little recoil. Now my son loves it. .

 

[BigFatKen]

This firearm will take both the .357 magnum and a .38 special, correct? What are the differences other than the .38 special is a little easier to fire (this is what I keep reading online)

The .357 mag has a far greater "stopping power". This is your intent. Stop the home invader.

 

[geekWithA.45]

.38 special is a moderate pistol round, and has a lot let recoil than .357. The .357 case is a little longer, so as not to fit into .38 chambers, which generally aren't strong enough.

Common defensive calibers are ranked more or less in this order:


------------[light]-------------------
.380 acp (the bare minimum) (autoloader)
-----------[moderate]-----------------
.38 special
.38 special +P
9mm (autoloader, _some_ revolvers)
9mm +p (ditto)
.40 S&W (autoloader)
.45 LC (revolver)
.45 acp (autoloader, revolver)
---------[heavy]----------------------
.357 magnum (revolver)
10mm (autoloader)
.41mag (revo)
.44mag (revo)

 

[mnrivrat]

This firearm will take both the .357 magnum and a .38 special, correct? What are the differences other than the .38 special is a little easier to fire (this is what I keep reading online)

That's correct - as stated the .38 Spl is just a slightly shorter case length (.100) and will fit into and fire from a .357 Mag chamber. The .38Spl cartridge has less power and therefore less recoil than the .357Mag., and can be had in very light to nearly .357 mag. power loads.

This gives you a lot of flexibility that allows for reduced recoil on the light .38Spl loads to some pretty heavy hitters on the heavy .357 Mag. loads.

M686 is a great choice. The gun itself is a little heavier than the K-Frame Model 66 which may or may not matter for you.

 

[normbal]

Jesse, if you're absolutely set on a handgun, a S&W model 10 with a 4 inch barrel shooting .38 spl +Ps (any of the quality self defense loads, corbon, hydrashocks, gold dots, etc) is going to be about as utilitarian as you can get.

Make SURE your wife can hold/shoot it comfortably with light power target loads first, then work up to the +P loads.
Make SURE she understands the manual of arms, reloading (although in a personal protection situation this is very unlikely), and gets enough practice to be confident.

That said, as an NRA instructor (personal protection, pistol, firearms safety in the home, shotgun), and having seen what damage pistol rounds do from work in an ER (I'm board certified in Family Practice medicine) versus a shotgun, and knowing what pistol bullets do inside homes (they go through a heck of a lot of drywall, often into other apartments/homes) and to the human body (often stop in heavy layers of clothing and/or fat which REALLY pisses off potential rapists whose victims I saw in ER and usually in the morgue), what I advise IS to buy/use a shotgun.

Do NOT use double-ought buck rounds. This is like twelve32 caliber bullets.

Practice with bird shot, like target loads.

A short-barreled (not an NFA item, I mean just over 18 inches) with a full length stock is very practical for home defense (if taught correctly) for "stopping power" (i.e. - tissue damage, blood loss, force of impact) and has little to no overpenetration risk. Pistol rounds when shot under duress can, and DO miss their targets. So can a shotgun, but when shouldered and sighted has much more stability and accuracy close-in (but try shooting a man-sized torso sometime offhand with both a pistol AND a shotgun. It's surprising how few rounds hit the target unless they're aimed properly).

Marines AND Army grunts use shotguns (since WWI) extensively in close-quarter combat for such reasons. AR15or other .223 carbines (Kel-Tec, for example) can ALSO be used, but DAMN they throw a lot of flash and noise into a room/hallway (As do .357 magnums. Ask me how I know. WHAT! I can't see anything).

Consider looking into the NRA.org website (or calling) to find shotgun instructors in your area who will explain this to you and your wife.

Just my two cents from experience/training.

-Norm Balog
CPT USA(R) Retired
Family Practice, Firearms Counseling
socialist occupied Maryland

 

[BigO01]

Jesse from your name I assume you are in Texas , if so I suggest you and the wife each should consider a CCW or if you live in any CCW state that is , if your home is in a secluded area once again assuming you both work or are out late at night you could find a problem when you arrive home alone or even together after dark .

I would also suggest two guns not one , for the wife a nice Taurus 7 shot .357 their model 66 loaded with 38 special +P's in 125 grain bullets would make an excelent defense round for her and with a 4 inch barrel recoil wouldn't be a problem at all . For you perhaps a 607 , a snubby 7 shot 357 with either light magnum loads or the same load as the wife has in her weapon .

With a little shopping around you should be able to pick up two Taurus 357's brand new for the price of one S&W 686 or very close to it .

If you have heard negative things about the Tarus brand look into a pair of nice used S&W model 19 or 66's they can often be had for around the $300 mark and are very well made weapons you can trust your life with .

I have had S&W revolvers and Taurus ones I quite frankly can't justify the price differnce as the quality is equel in both , at least in the newer Taurus ones , I can't speak for what they made 20 years ago which I understand had spotty quality control .

My present home 357's are a used Taurus 669 which I picked up this spring for under $300 , and a Taurus made Rossi 972 .

Best of luck

 

[akanotken]

version 2

Hearing that your wife is recoil sensitive, I'm going to weigh back in on my suggestions, as my wife is very sensitive too. She wasn't crazy about shooting a colt 380 (bout the softest shooting semi), nor my full weight 9mm's (high power). I haven't given up, but I'm not forcing the issue either. She's deadly on can's with a .22 pistol, and I'm hoping she'll eventually come around.

I don't know your wife, but I'd suggest a trial trip to a range to rent handguns before you settle on any. She may be ok with the recoil/noise, and she may not. If she isn't, you don't want to push it (in my experience). Remember, more important than what you choose is to practice to proficiency.

Shotguns are out too. A 20ga is as much as she'd want, but even then, likely going to be hard for her.

Camp carbine is a very logical choice. Get it in a pistol caliber (9mm is my vote) and you'll have the least recoil/noise for her to over come.

OK, eventually you were going to get this advice .... you might consider 2 . Get her a carbine, get yourself a pistol that takes the same mags. Ruger comes to mind. These can be very affordable, so getting 2 isn't likely to break your bank. They are a little big for carrying, but that doesn't matter for home defense and will help lessen recoil. I think there are glock and others? Stay away from the hipoints.

Semi's have come a long ways, and I just find them easier to grip and shoot (I started on semi's before I got my GP100 which I got for variety's sake).

 

[carterbeauford]

There is really no excuse not to keep a shotgun as your primary home defense weapon. You can pick up a decent Mossberg for $200. Cheap to buy, cheap to shoot, and pretty foolproof.

However, if you want a handgun, check out the Taurus 24/7 in .45ACP. It is a large frame semi-auto with an accessory rail on which you can mount a light, laser or comination of the two. Holding a semi-auto with a light mounted on it makes target identification easier than holding a flashlight in one hand and a revolver in the other.

 

[Thefabulousfink]

Lots of good advice so far, I'll just add this:

Many of the girl shooters that I know started out with shotguns. A 20ga with trap/skeet loads is pretty light.

If your wife is very nervous about guns, consider getting a .22lr revolver as well. You should be able to find a decent used one for $100-$200. .22's have a very light kick and the ammo is cheep (you can buy 1000 rounds for just a few$$).
The benefits of a .22 are; They are non-threatening to shoot (no big bang/kick that makes new shooters develop a flinch), They improve your marksmanship (cheep ammo can be shot a lot and the technique is the same as larger guns), they are tons of fun! (go out into the woods and knock some pop cans off a tree stump

 

[Oregongundude]

Home defense weapons

My selections:

First : 12 gauge shotgun with double odd buck shot.
Second: 45 acp, 40 S&W, 357 magnum, 9mm any of the four would be fine.
Third: Big mean dog patrolling the property.

Security system would be a nice addition if your worried about intruders.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Hope we're not overloading the guy with info:

Quick thing on revolver sizes. S&W are labelled by letter: J, K, L, N. The 686 is L, the 19/66 are smaller at K, and the 60 is a J.

If your wife tries out a revolver, and likes it, but thinks that the 19 feels to big, take a hard look at a S&W Model 60. Stainless steel, J-frame, five shots, available w/ 2, 3, or 5-inch barrels. Heavy enough to absorb recoil, but tiny and maneuverable.

We use a J-frame S&W in .22 at our campus range, and with a Tyler T-grip adaptor, it fits the hand of even our smallest shooters.

If she finds a revolver that she likes, but the grips don't fit her hand well, bear in mind that the grips are the single easiest thing to change on a revolver.

Again, if your wife is intimidated by rifles/shotguns, a $60-75 pawnshop Marlin 60 .22 rifle might be one of the best investments you make this year, and you can always sell it for the same price you bought it for if you don't end up liking it.

-MV

 

[WheelGunMom]

From a woman's perspective . . .

I bought the 4" 7-shot 686 for home defense after handling both this weapon and the 4" Ruger (Ruger was a beautiful gun but heavy -- not that the 686 is that much lighter, but it was noticible to me).

I second all the advice about having your wife go to a local range and shoot a variety of weapons first. I was new to shooting this was eye-opening for me. The 2" revolvers were not at all pleasant to shoot. The 4" has very little recoil and she can get some satisfaction when she gets a few in the 10 ring early on! Note that the range rentals will have a lighter trigger feel from having had so many rounds through them. The trigger pull on my new 686 is very heavy and this has been a source of some discouragement. After I started shooting I realized I really enjoyed target practice too, but I am not very consistent in my groupings after a few cylinders pulling this heavy trigger. Also, the grip is large on this L-frame gun and I'm still practicing how to correctly get a proper grip from "moment one" -- should I ever need to use it for its intended home protection purpose.

I hope you wife enjoys the shooting experience as much as I did.

 

[WheelGunMom]

Matthew, I was probably proofing my post when you gave your excellent reminder about switching out grips for female shooters. I'm anxious to do this on my 686, so here's a real "noob" question - do I have to have a gunsmith do this or is a grip change something that any gun owner can do with the right tools??? Thanks.

 

[Essex County]

Mid frame, quality, 38 or 357 loaded with .3 8+P will get you through the night..........Essex

 

[moxie]

Agree with comments made by Black Majik, Pistol

Toter, and Kludge. Most definitely. The .38 Spl./.357 Mag revolver, full-size with 3" or 4" barrel. S&W 686 (also 66) and Ruger GP100 are at the front of the pack. A great used choice if you can find one is a Ruger Security Six. If you go with a shotgun, I'd recommend a 20 gauge as it is nearly as effective as the 12 with less recoil which may be important, especially for your wife. The Rem. 870 or the Mossberg 500 are just fine. Get lessons. Practice.

 

[OEF_VET]

After having read through all of this I'm leaning towards the Smith and Wesson 686 4 inch 6-shot.

That right there is the only revover I own. Now, I've shot plenty of others, and even owned a considerable number. But, when it comes down to a great defensive gun, it's hard to beat a 4" 686. (I primarily carry a semi-auto, though.)

In my opinion, it is MUCH easier to teach someone how to shoot with a revolver. Yeah, Glocks are more-or-less idiot-proof, but they aren't as fool-proof as a revolver. I routinely have students, who after several hours of lecture and training, have a hard time remembering where the slide release is on their Glocks (and it's the only lever on the gun). None of them have ever had a hard time remembering how to open, reload, and close the cylinder of a revolver.

The great thing about a .357 Magnum is the ability to shoot .38's in it. Use .38's for the range, and keep .357's in it for bedside duty. I would recommend that you and your wife each fire a cylinder of .357's through it at the range. If you only ever fire .38's through it, but when the rapist comes into the bedroom at 2 am, you fire off a round of .357, you will notice some difference in recoil, noise, and muzzle blast. (Especially the noise, as you'll be wearing ear muffs at the range, but you'll not likely be wearing a set to bed. Unless your spouse snores as loud as my dad does.) If you're at least familiar with the difference beforehand, it won't be as much of a shock to you at the moment of truth. You don't want your wife to start thinking that the gun just blew up in her hand when there's a 300 lb, naked, sweaty guy standing over her with a knife in his hand.

Remember, the key to survival in a gunfight is training. If you don't train, you won't perform. If you train poorly, you'll perform poorly. If you train diligently, you'll likely perform brilliantly.

Good luck, and welcome to THR. Don't forget to let us know what you get, and about your class. If there is ever anything else you want to learn, feel free to ask. You have a very vast wealth of information available here at THR. Maybe you've got something you can share with the rest of us. Afterall, not even LtCol Jeff Cooper was born with a gun in his hand. He started out as a beginner too.

 

[RustyShackelford]

new guns for new gun owners

Hello
If you are just starting out, I'd consider a DA only .38spl revolver like a S&W 642 or 442 or the excellent Ruger .357magnum SP101 in DA only. These guns are small, fire 5 rounds, and are easy to clean/operate. I suggest a DA only revolver because if you plan to use it for home protection you can avoid false claims or civil lawsuits that you "cocked the hammer back" and fired by accident. DA only pistols and revolvers are used by many law enforcement agencies for these reasons.

You can also get a Crimsontrace laser grip for these .38spl/.357magnum revolvers. The laser will help improve your shooting skill and will aid you if you have a house breaker come in at night. NOTE: about 80% of violent crimes take place in low light areas. CT lasers are easy to install and can be used with most holsters/gear.

After you gain skill/time shooting a .38spl DA only revolver you can move up to a .44spl revolver or a .357sig/.45acp pistol. For concealed carry/protection you don't need a .44magnum or .50AE .

Avoid excessive gunsmithing or custom work for your first weapon. You can get improved use from some features but it's not a requirement.

Hogue grips(if you do not want lasers) and maybe a plate job(a special coating that will protect your wepon and speed up cleaning) like Robar's NP3 would be the only add ons I would suggest.

For ammo use; Glaser silver safety slugs, Speer Gold Dot 135gr JHP(bonded) +P or W-W 158gr lead semi-wadcutter +P in .38spl.

Here are some online resources; www.gunsamerica.com www.lasersights.com www.getgrip.com www.midwayusa.com www.ruger.com www.natchezss.com www.corbon.com www.crimsontrace.com www.robarguns.com www.apwcogan.com .

Rusty

 

[Gord]

o here's a real "noob" question - do I have to have a gunsmith do this or is a grip change something that any gun owner can do with the right tools??? Thanks.

Grips can be changed with a screwdriver or allen wrench, depending on what kind of screws are holding the grips to the frame. It's as simple as that.

 

[Deanimator]

A short-barreled (not an NFA item, I mean just over 18 inches) with a full length stock is very practical for home defense (if taught correctly) for "stopping power"

That depends upon the size and configuration of their home. In a lot of homes it would be appropriate. In mine, it would be wildly inappropriate. I just don't have the room to maneuver, ESPECIALLY at the door. All of the training in the world can't make your apartment into a house, or a small house into a big one.

 

[Zeke Menuar]

The best home defense gun is a pump action 12 or 20 ga six or eight round shotgun, loaded with buckshot. A 20ga shotgun is a great choice for the recoil sensitive.

Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500, either one will work well. If you live out of town you can dispatch nusciance critters too.

The cold hard reality is, a handgun is what you use to fight your way to the shotgun, if the shotgun isn't close by.

ZM