Good hot loads for quality .357 mag?

[RoostRider]

I am just wondering what you guys have found that works well for you for a nice hot .357 load for a top quality gun... in my case, a S&W 686 6" brl.

I want something that hits hard and is pretty accurate (no sense dumbing down the gun).... I have tried several different loads over the years, but I have by no means tried all the different powders and combos available (a small fraction indeed).... some I liked, some were downright bad combos for that gun.... but I have never settled on a "this is my load".... so I am willing to try a few other combos before I set it down and become a mule about it....

Looking for something to load up to.... I would like to know what source you get your data from as well, so I can cross refference.... if your load exceeds the data limits in your manual, please state so as such!!!.... if you 'made up' your load from scratch (no manual), please note that as well, as well as the methods you use to determine you are within the limits of your gun and the cartridge (primer indications? chrono speeds? mic the case head? actual pressure tests?)

If you know the pressures your load is producing, that would be great too....

If someone posts a load you find questionable, don't hesitate to question it.... if you can't handle having your decisions questioned, don't post your information here.... I want to see what the general consensus is on loads as well, and the evidence as to why you think that way... don't be shy to point out a combo that works well even if it isn't a 'peak' load (accuracy counts!)

I will WORK UP TO any loads listed here, after cross referencing them and checking my own data AND SO SHOULD ANYONE ELSE USING THESE LOADS!!!

So let it fly with what you find to be the best load and why.

CRITICAL INFORMATION- don't post without including this information!

Bullet weight
Powder type
Charge weight (be precise!)
Bullet type (coefficient if known)
Ft Lbs/chrono (if known)
Max Load?
Over max load specified in manual?
Any concerns you may have about the load?
Peculiar load characteristics? (very loud/quiet? smokey/clean? accurate/inaccurate? extra punch? finicky powder? Pressure spikes?)

PLEASE ATTACH SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THIS IF YOUR LOAD QUALIFIES!!

CAUTION: The following posts may include loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

PS- if this has been done to death, just point me in the right direction... the search didn't seem to be working... thanks

 

[jmorris]

I have one that is accurate enough to send golf balls into orbit at 50 yards.

1 158 grain Speer jhp
2 2400
3 start at 13.9 grains (my load is over that and some books too so I don't want to post it despite your disclaimer)
4 .158 BC
5 1350fps out of a 6" revolver
6 yeah that's a max load
7 Now that I'm older I tend to down load a larger caliber more often than maxing out a smaller one.
8 Its loud, clean compared to cast bullets, very accurate, will blind you if you shoot it in the dark and use CCI 550 magnum primers.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

mine rings a 6" steel disc on chains at 100 ft with authority out of a 4" GP100.

158gr Jhp
Rem case
14.5 gr AA#9
Federal sp mag primer.
work up to this one it's a bit over data. will also light up the area if shot at dark.

 

[Slamfire]

My standard, favorite load is a 158 grain anything, 13.5 grains 2400, any case any primer.

2400 can be loaded up and down and it still shoots well. Shill gunwriters always promote the lastest gunpowder as the greatest. However, just because Elmer Keith used 2400 eighty years ago does not mean it won't perform. It does. Like it always did.

I have tested other powders, AA#9 is an excellent powder. I could push it faster but I loaded up a bunch of 12.0 grain loads with a 158.

I do not recommend Blue Dot; shot great with JHP but leaded severely with lead bullets. Blue Dot is too limited to spend money on it.

If you are only going to be loading magnum, full power loads, give W296/H110 a try. They are the same powder, buy by price.

W296 shot very well. You just can’t download it. It is pedal to the medal or nothing.

Smith & Wesson M27-2 6.5” barrel
			
158 LSWC 13.5grs 2400 R-P cases CCI primers		
9-Oct-05	T = 64 °F
				
Ave Vel =	1273				
Std Dev =	44.03				 
ES  =	176.7				 
High  =	1372				 
Low  =	1195				 
N =	30

Very accurate. 				 
					
158 LRN   12.0 grs AA#9 CCI500 Mixed cases 	 	
5-Aug-06	T = 103 °F
				
Ave Vel =	1278		 		
Std Dev =	34.98		 		
ES  =	117.4		
High  =	1344			
Low  =	1226				
 N =	27				
Accurate	little or no leading				
					
158 LRN   12.5 grs AA#9 CCI500 3-D  cases 	 	
5-Aug-06	T = 103 °F
				
Ave Vel =	1348		 		
Std Dev =	34.16		 	
ES  =	134.7			
High  =	1386				
Low  =	1251				
 N =	25				
Very Accurate	no leading				
		
158 LRN   13.0 grs AA#9 CCI500 3-D cases 	 	
5-Aug-06	T = 103 °F
				
Ave Vel =	1360		 		
Std Dev =	33.19		 	
ES  =	109.8			
High  =	1393				
Low  =	1284				
 N =	26	
			
Very Accurate	no leading
				
158 LSWC Lyman Alloy #2  12.0 AA#9 Mixed cases CCI500 	
	 				
21 June 2008 T =  85 °F				
					
Ave Vel =	1166				
Std Dev =	99				
ES =	251.8				
High =	1245				
Low =	993.3				
N =	6				
					
No leading					
					
158 gr LSWC Lyman Alloy #2 15.5 W296  Zero Cases CCI500 	
	 				
21 June 2008 T =  85 °F				
					
Ave Vel =	1282				
Std Dev =	35				
ES =	128.1				
High =	1325				
Low =	1197				
N =12
No leading, no extraction issues, heavier recoil than AA#9 load		

158 JHP (W/W) 13.5 grains 2400 R-P cases WSP		
5-Aug-06	T = 103 °F	
			
Ave Vel =	1196		 		
Std Dev =	26.58				
ES  =	87.17				
High  =	1244				
Low  =	1157				
 N =	10	


158 JHP 13.0 grs AA#9 R-P cases WSP			
9-Oct-05	T = 64 °F
				
Ave Vel =	1156				
Std Dev =	35.63				 
ES  =	160.6				 
High  =	1230				 
Low  =	1069				 
N =	20				 
Very accurate

50 rounds Offhand at 25 Yards with one of these loads

 

[CTSigLover]

CRITICAL INFORMATION- don't post without including this information!

Lighten up Francis...


Lots of good info on the "original" .357 Magnum load here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=444143

I settled on 158 gr. LSWC over 15.2 grains of 2400... started getting funny chrono results at 15.3, just like the thread predicted.

The above load is not over published limits according to Lee's Modern Reloading 2d.

 

[RoostRider]

CTS- sorry, the critical information got mixed with the 'if you know' information....

I will check out that link when I get a chance..... so, are you keeping the chrono results secret for a reason?

2400 can be loaded up and down and it still shoots well.

That sounds good, but I have no problem using a different powder for the plinkers.... but I also want a load I can work up to with confidence.... I am pretty sure I even have some 2400 in the powder magazine...

I have always like AA7 powder (because of the small size it meters well)... is AA9 a similar powder consistency?

Thanks.... and if anyone has any others they want to share, let me know....

 

[joneb]

I have always like AA7 powder (because of the small size it meters well)... is AA9 a similar powder consistency?

Pretty much the same.

I use AA#9 for 158-180gr jacketed bullets at the upper end of the load data, in a 2.75" Ruger sec. six with excellent results.

 

[fprefect]

357 Loads

I use 21 grs. of H110 or W296 (same powder) with a 125 gr Hornady XTP HP bullet. This powder will usually produce the highest MV in most 357 magnum revolvers, but according to Hodgdon's data it has a very narrow range of charge weights, with Hodgdon showing a starting load of 21 gr. and a maximum of 22 grs. They show a muzzle velocity of 1966 fps with the 22 gr. load.

However they strongly warn against using this powder BELOW the recommended starting load, or in other words a full or near full case. The lighter 125 gr bullet should expand much faster than say a 158 #2 alloy lead bullet that could rapidly pass through a perp without expending all of it's energy on the target. The 125 should rapidly expand and fragment expending almost all of it's energy on the target.

My 2 cents worth.

F. Prefect

 

[joneb]

They show a muzzle velocity of 1966 fps with the 22 gr. load.

Hodgdon uses a 10" non-vented test barrel for their .357 magnum data.

 

[hydraulicman]

OP go get yourself a can of Winchester 296. I don't know if you can load it hotter than a can of 296 can

 

[mikeone]

I second the 22gr 296, 125 xtp load. Its a blast to shoot Ive probably put that through 10 different .357s. Nuts in a Sp101. Pussy cat in a Desert Eagle.

 

[fprefect]

Hodgdon uses a 10" non-vented test barrel for their .357 magnum data.

When I first saw the 1966 MV, I thought for a moment it might have been rifle data but then doubted they would publish rifle loads for a cartridge that almost everyone would assume to be a revolver load and use the numbers for that purpose.

If one looks in the rifle load section they do show a rifle load of 23grs and a 2275MV. IMO it's a bit misleading to publish data using a 10' barrel as I can't remember the last time I saw a 357 sporting a 10 incher. I have no idea what I'm getting out of my 7 1/2" but would assume it's 200-300fps less. Nevertheless, good MV for that cartridge.

F. Prefect

 

[RoostRider]

This thread has some good stuff in it..... I did read the linked thread from CTSigLover, and there is some good information in there as well, although it seems very largely dedicated to the 2400 data of yesteryear vs today (I will check the age of my load manuals first... lol) and getting good results out of a heavy wadcutter....

I have an instinctive problem with loading lead bullets quite hot.... that problem is that I don't like dealing with the leading of the barrel, and I am inclined to think they loose a considerably amount of accuracy at that point (no proof of this.... just my inclination)....

I am highly interested in a very heavy hitting hollow point, or other jacketed rounds.... in fact, I am a bit in limbo, because what I really want is the best load for stopping large game, potentially very large game (black bear and moose in particular).... I am not interested in your opinion of whether you think a .357 can do this reliably (simply because I don't want a 'debate' in this thread, not because I don't respect your opinion).... I have heard, here and there, that a heavy hitting wadcutter might be best against game with as much mass protecting it's vitals as a black bear, which is why I didn't leave out those types of bullets... I want it all.... whatever works bets to drive whatever bullets from that gun as hard hitting and accurate as possible...

I have as much interest in a hard driving a 125gr JHP as I do a 158 gr wadcutter (and everything in between)... but I would want the most out of whichever of them I choose to use, in ft/lbs at the target and accuracy....

I was a little iffy about making this thread, because I am not just some yahoo looking to push his gun to the limit, nor am I interested in testing my cahoonas with 'over the top' loads... I want a heavy hitting, useable, practical round (perhaps even a few different ones for different apps)... essentially, the most I can expect out of this gun (kudos to the idea of loading a bigger gun lighter, rather than a smaller gun heavier!... always the best advice if you have the option!)...

thanks to everyone for keeping on the concept and making helpful posts... keep them rolling.... I will be buying components to start testing this week (unless I happen to have all that I need.... time to inventory!)

I intend to load and test a large variety

 

[Ben Shepherd]

I am highly interested in a very heavy hitting hollow point, or other jacketed rounds.... in fact, I am a bit in limbo, because what I really want is the best load for stopping large game, potentially very large game (black bear and moose in particular).... I am not interested in your opinion of whether you think a .357 can do this reliably (simply because I don't want a 'debate' in this thread, not because I don't respect your opinion).... I have heard, here and there, that a heavy hitting wadcutter might be best against game with as much mass protecting it's vitals as a black bear, which is why I didn't leave out those types of bullets... I want it all.... whatever works bets to drive whatever bullets from that gun as hard hitting and accurate as possible...

OK, I spent litterally HUNDREDS of dollars on the same chase you're describling. I settled on a 158 Laser-Cast HCSWC in front of 15.2 grains of 2400. It's proven very accurate in over a dozen 357s I've tried it in, does 1300 from a 2 1/4" barrel, and makes 1550 out of a 7.5" tube. Penetrates like crazy without monsterous recoil or muzzle blast. It cuts through mild 1/4" plate like butter, went right through a big ham I had that was spoiled without even showng signs of slowing down or coming apart. The best part? No signs of leading with that particular slug in my guns(all Rugers).

Also there are at least three threads here on THR that show others besides myself tested extensively and they also found the 15.2 charge to be the sweet spot for accuracy mixed with velocity.

Keep in mind the 15.2 grains of 2400 load I mention here is at or above current published maximums, approach with all due caution

Why the lead slug? It doesn't expand(not designed to), therefore it generally outpenetrates flat or hollow point jacketed offerings that are designed to expand to at least double the original caliber.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

If you really want a "thumper load" for the .357 Magnum, load a 180gr WFNGC bullet from Cast Performance or if you don't want to go that heavy they have a very good 160gr WFNPB bullet which is very good too. Cast Performance bullets are used in Grizzly Cartridges, they are the same company.

As for powder I use Hodgdon Lil'Gun with those heavy bullets. IMO it delivers the best accuracy and lowest pressure while delivering the highest velocities. The load data is available on the Hodgdon Load Data Site.

 

[RoostRider]

158 Laser-Cast HCSWC... it does 1300 from a 2 1/4" barrel, and makes 1550 out of a 7.5" tube.... The best part? No signs of leading with that particular slug in my guns(all Rugers).

Please explain.... is that simply as a result of being hard cast?.... I was of the impression that those speeds/pressures would most certainly cause excessive leading... I have experienced leading with loads much smaller, but not with HC, and I know the HC's do better... but we are talking some pretty decent jacketed speeds here...

Just looked at the Laser-Cast site.... DANG.... those things are 10 cents a piece when bought in lots of 1000!!.....

I do like the idea of a hard cast semi wadcutter for the big game..... and then there are those who will swear that a hollow point is the only way to go in flesh of any sort.... *sigh*.... if only I could be shot with each to see the difference... lol.... (I am strongly leaning towards the HCSWC right now)

I am also looking for good HP rounds that work for people too.... a good SD recipe or two? (maybe less than full power?)

Thanks for all the great information....

 

[hydraulicman]

Buy a few hundred XTP's or speer hollow points and use the semi wad cutters for plinking and target practice.

 

[RoostRider]

I have lots of plinker RNL for now (couple thousand).... I have a good recipe that doesn't get 'in your face' yet produces fairly accurate results (I load them in .38 special brass because I have a .38 that I like to practice with anyways)...

I have tried a lot of different HP's over the years, but have never tested them against each other in ballistic anything (not even a rotted ham... ).... is there a special reason you suggest XTP's or Speers, aside from the fact that you can get them everywhere?

 

[Ben Shepherd]

If it's XTPs and Speer Gold Dot HPs he's talking about, yes a very specific reason. Both of those hold together VERY well, even at high velocities out of lever guns(They're what I use in my win 94s), and usually prove to be very accurate.

 

[RoostRider]

Thats good to know as those are easily available at the places I shop and I have a good share of XTP's on hand.

Why not a jacketed round for penetration, and high power capability?

What do you recommend for an HD round? something in an HP I would guess.... I really wish there was something that would work well for both, which is why I have considered a really hot HP round... but I am starting to realize that a compromise is always just that... a compromise... It's not that switching ammo is very difficult, it's just that getting comfortable with one round would be preferable and easier in all regards.

 

[Ateam-3]

Like several earlier posters, I prefer 2400 for my 'hot' loads. The load I use is less than theirs, but still over maximum in several loading manuals. Therefore work up to it if you choose to duplicate. I started at 14.0gr and worked up from there.

Lyman cast bullet 358156 - 158gr LSWC w/GC
2400 - 15.0gr
Winchester SP primers
MV approx. 1450fps from my 6" barrelled 686
MV approx. 1410fps from my 4" barrelled 686

This bullet has two crimp grooves. I seat the bullets in the lowest one. This yields an overall length too long for a python or a Model 19. I do not know about any of the Ruger revolvers.

I have had my most impressive accuracy from this load. I do not have any targets available for reference and I cannot remember the group size. Even so, I know it works well for me.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

What do you recommend for an HD round?

I use 158 speer gold dots. Good balance of penetration and expansion at revolver velocities. The XTP is a little to tough for social work in urban/suburban settings, IMHO. Out stompin' the sticks in the boonies, the XTPs really shine.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I use 158 speer gold dots. Good balance of penetration and expansion at revolver velocities. The XTP is a little to tough for social work in urban/suburban settings, IMHO. Out stompin' the sticks in the boonies, the XTPs really shine.

I agree, use a Speer Gold Dot bullet and save the Hornady XTP/HP bullets for use in the woods and in a Carbine. If the Speer bullets are too hard to find or you don't want to pay the price like me take a look at the Nosler 158gr JHP bullets. (Part #44841) They are very high quality and will expand reliably too. Nosler offers them in a 250 round bulk pack and can be found for ~$31. (that's only $12.40/100) IMO that's a great price for any Nosler bullet especially these days!!