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I have always wanted a top break revolver I know there are the uberti replicas but I'm not made of money what's a good one for the money I'm kind of wanting at least a 38
Kaleb
Kaleb
Good Top break for the money
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C5rider
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Are you into history? Would a .38 S&W cartridge be sufficient? (i.e.- NOT 38 Special).
There are some pretty decent deals on top break revolvers in .38 S&W. I found one that was originally sold by mail order out of Chicago! I just found that particularly ironic, and I wanted a top break, and I had the money at the time....
There are many folks on this forum that have made it their life's work to delve into this niche of revolvers. I'm sure that they will stroll by soon enough with more info than you could ever digest in one sitting. But, till then, I'll just state that yes, there are some good (and quite interesting) specimens out there. Do your homework and be sure to show us what you find!
Good luck!
There are some pretty decent deals on top break revolvers in .38 S&W. I found one that was originally sold by mail order out of Chicago! I just found that particularly ironic, and I wanted a top break, and I had the money at the time....
There are many folks on this forum that have made it their life's work to delve into this niche of revolvers. I'm sure that they will stroll by soon enough with more info than you could ever digest in one sitting. But, till then, I'll just state that yes, there are some good (and quite interesting) specimens out there. Do your homework and be sure to show us what you find!
Good luck!
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Thanks
bannockburn
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Kaleb pack
I would go with C5rider's suggestion and look for something like an old H&R .38 S&W top-break revolver. Quite a few out there and still relatively affordable and just a neat little gun to have around.
I would go with C5rider's suggestion and look for something like an old H&R .38 S&W top-break revolver. Quite a few out there and still relatively affordable and just a neat little gun to have around.
MI2600
Member
I would check gun sites for a S&W New Departure or Safety Hammerless in .38 S&W. There are some decent ones to be found in the $300-400 range.
Panzerschwein
member
If you want one that's made for shooting, don't stick your nose up at a Webley.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
The Webley and the Enfield No.2 are good shooters. I have an Enfield in .38 S&W and load for it. I shoot bullets anywhere from 145gr to 200gr. Shooting the old British military 38/200 load is fun but I shoot mostly 170gr FN bullets from a H&G 512 mold.
Since .38 S&W ammo is still commercially available and not outrageously priced it's not a bad choice.
Since .38 S&W ammo is still commercially available and not outrageously priced it's not a bad choice.
Speedo66
Member
This sounds like a nice one, just a trifle on the pricey side.
http://www.armslist.com/posts/70142...edingly-rare-u-s--martial-gun--factory-letter
And one in the original box: http://www.armslist.com/posts/41412...wesson-new-departure-3--32s-w-nickel--in-box-
http://www.armslist.com/posts/70142...edingly-rare-u-s--martial-gun--factory-letter
And one in the original box: http://www.armslist.com/posts/41412...wesson-new-departure-3--32s-w-nickel--in-box-
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
The Uberti replicas of S&W Top Breaks are reproductions of the large #3 frame revolvers; the Russian, Schofield, and New Model Number Three. If you don't want to buy one of these, but still want a Top Break, other than the large Enfield, you will be limited to smaller revolvers. Most of those being discussed are what are commonly known as pocket pistols, and are chambered for either the 38 Smith and Wesson round, or a 32 caliber round.
The cream of the crop of Top Breaks was always, in my admittedly biased opinion, the ones produced by Smith and Wesson. This was reflected by their 19th Century prices as well as the prices they bring today.
I have a few S&W Top Break pocket pistols. At the top of this photo is a 38 Safety Hammerless that left the factory in 1896, with five 38 S&W rounds. At the bottom is a 32 Safety Hammerless that probably left the factory around 1905, with five rounds of 32 S&W ammo. These guns were sometimes known as Lemon Squeezers because they had a grip safely that had to be squeezed, just like a 1911, in order to fire them.
Here is a 32 Single Action chambered for 32 S&W that left the factory in 1889.
Here is a 38 Single Action, 2nd Model, chambered for 38 S&W, that left the factory in 1877.
The problem with all these guns, with the possible exception of the little Lemon Squeezer from 1905, is they are too old to safely fire modern Smokeless ammo in them. There are those who will disagree, but I will not fire modern Smokeless ammunition in any old Top Break, only ammunition loaded with Black Powder.
I can't speak for Harrington and Richardson, I know nothing about them. I do believe that many of their models were made quite recently, and would be perfectly safe to fire with modern ammo. I just don't know much about them.
I do know that around the turn of the century (19th to 20th), Iver Johnson completely redesigned their line of revolvers with better steel and better designs specifically for Smokeless powder.
I picked up this Iver Johnson 38 S&W Safety Hammerless revolver about 15 years ago for $100. It would probably go for more now, but probably not too much. This is a Smokeless model. The key is looking at the little owl on the grips. If he faces backwards, it is a Smokeless model.
Contrast that to this Black Powder era Iver Johnson. Notice the little owl is facing forwards. Notice too the simpler design of the locking slots on the cylinder. The bolt only engages these slots on one face, the hand is what prevents the cylinder from rolling backwards when the gun is in battery. Compare the slots with the much better design of the slots on the cylinder of the other Iver Johnson. I would not hesitate to fire modern 38 S&W ammo in the gun in the upper photo. I would not do so in this one.
Which brings me to one more, rather unusual Top Break. This is a Smith and Wesson Double Action 38, 3rd Model. Chambered for the 38 S&W cartridge, this one left the factory in 1888. I only paid $200 for it a bunch of years ago, but it is old enough that I will not shoot Smokeless ammo through it.
But S&W kept updating the 38 Double Action models over the years, and the 5th model was made from 1909 until 1911, and is probably fine to shoot with Smokeless ammo.
But in 1909 S&W introduced their last Top Break design, the 38 Double Action Perfected Model. Produced from 1909 until 1920, this revolver was clearly made during the Smokeless powder era. Notice anything unusual? What's that on the side of the gun? A sliding thumb piece just like any modern S&W revolver. But there is a latch up by the hammer too. This is probably the most unusual Top Break that S&W made. In order to open the gun, you have to simultaneously push the thumb piece forward and lift the upper latch up. Forget to do one or the other, and you can't open it up. I picked up this one recently for only $500 because it had been refinished, and I doubt the pearl grips are original. But only $500. Shoots great, with modern Smokeless 38 S&W ammo.
Why did S&W make this crazy design? One answer is it was felt that a 'bad guy' could reach over the top of a normal Top Break and disarm the bearer by lifting the latch and opening the gun. Risky business to say the least, but there seems to be historical evidence of Top Break owners complaining to Daniel Wesson about this with the old Top Breaks. More likely is the frame and mechanism of the Perfected had been completely redesigned, and shared some parts and features with some of the early Hand Ejectors. I have three Perfecteds at this point, and do not hesitate to shoot modern ammunition in them.
The Uberti replicas of S&W Top Breaks are reproductions of the large #3 frame revolvers; the Russian, Schofield, and New Model Number Three. If you don't want to buy one of these, but still want a Top Break, other than the large Enfield, you will be limited to smaller revolvers. Most of those being discussed are what are commonly known as pocket pistols, and are chambered for either the 38 Smith and Wesson round, or a 32 caliber round.
The cream of the crop of Top Breaks was always, in my admittedly biased opinion, the ones produced by Smith and Wesson. This was reflected by their 19th Century prices as well as the prices they bring today.
I have a few S&W Top Break pocket pistols. At the top of this photo is a 38 Safety Hammerless that left the factory in 1896, with five 38 S&W rounds. At the bottom is a 32 Safety Hammerless that probably left the factory around 1905, with five rounds of 32 S&W ammo. These guns were sometimes known as Lemon Squeezers because they had a grip safely that had to be squeezed, just like a 1911, in order to fire them.
Here is a 32 Single Action chambered for 32 S&W that left the factory in 1889.
Here is a 38 Single Action, 2nd Model, chambered for 38 S&W, that left the factory in 1877.
The problem with all these guns, with the possible exception of the little Lemon Squeezer from 1905, is they are too old to safely fire modern Smokeless ammo in them. There are those who will disagree, but I will not fire modern Smokeless ammunition in any old Top Break, only ammunition loaded with Black Powder.
I can't speak for Harrington and Richardson, I know nothing about them. I do believe that many of their models were made quite recently, and would be perfectly safe to fire with modern ammo. I just don't know much about them.
I do know that around the turn of the century (19th to 20th), Iver Johnson completely redesigned their line of revolvers with better steel and better designs specifically for Smokeless powder.
I picked up this Iver Johnson 38 S&W Safety Hammerless revolver about 15 years ago for $100. It would probably go for more now, but probably not too much. This is a Smokeless model. The key is looking at the little owl on the grips. If he faces backwards, it is a Smokeless model.
Contrast that to this Black Powder era Iver Johnson. Notice the little owl is facing forwards. Notice too the simpler design of the locking slots on the cylinder. The bolt only engages these slots on one face, the hand is what prevents the cylinder from rolling backwards when the gun is in battery. Compare the slots with the much better design of the slots on the cylinder of the other Iver Johnson. I would not hesitate to fire modern 38 S&W ammo in the gun in the upper photo. I would not do so in this one.
Which brings me to one more, rather unusual Top Break. This is a Smith and Wesson Double Action 38, 3rd Model. Chambered for the 38 S&W cartridge, this one left the factory in 1888. I only paid $200 for it a bunch of years ago, but it is old enough that I will not shoot Smokeless ammo through it.
But S&W kept updating the 38 Double Action models over the years, and the 5th model was made from 1909 until 1911, and is probably fine to shoot with Smokeless ammo.
But in 1909 S&W introduced their last Top Break design, the 38 Double Action Perfected Model. Produced from 1909 until 1920, this revolver was clearly made during the Smokeless powder era. Notice anything unusual? What's that on the side of the gun? A sliding thumb piece just like any modern S&W revolver. But there is a latch up by the hammer too. This is probably the most unusual Top Break that S&W made. In order to open the gun, you have to simultaneously push the thumb piece forward and lift the upper latch up. Forget to do one or the other, and you can't open it up. I picked up this one recently for only $500 because it had been refinished, and I doubt the pearl grips are original. But only $500. Shoots great, with modern Smokeless 38 S&W ammo.
Why did S&W make this crazy design? One answer is it was felt that a 'bad guy' could reach over the top of a normal Top Break and disarm the bearer by lifting the latch and opening the gun. Risky business to say the least, but there seems to be historical evidence of Top Break owners complaining to Daniel Wesson about this with the old Top Breaks. More likely is the frame and mechanism of the Perfected had been completely redesigned, and shared some parts and features with some of the early Hand Ejectors. I have three Perfecteds at this point, and do not hesitate to shoot modern ammunition in them.
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C5rider
Member
Thank you Driftwood. Never knew about the "Perfected"s Would have had me scratching my head if I saw one at a show, but now I WANT one! LOL
Panzerschwein
member
Driftwood Johnson,
What is your opinion of the Uberti Top Breaks? Do you recommend them?
What is your opinion of the Uberti Top Breaks? Do you recommend them?
bannockburn
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Driftwood
Love that .38 Double Action Perfected Model! What a fascinating transitional model between the Top-Breaks and the Hand Ejectors. For $500 I would have sprained my wrist getting my wallet out! Thanks once again for the history lesson!
Love that .38 Double Action Perfected Model! What a fascinating transitional model between the Top-Breaks and the Hand Ejectors. For $500 I would have sprained my wrist getting my wallet out! Thanks once again for the history lesson!
eastbank
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the trouble with lesser-off brands is that the insides are not hard enough to stand up to a lot of shooting , as a kid growing up on the farm i was given iver johnson .32 break top revolver with a broken main spring to play with. but as any one raised on a farm in the late 40,s would know you had to be a tinker and jack of all trades, but master of none. well after getting a few (15-20)shells at a farm auction in a junk box for .25 cents, i put my young over active brain to work and came up with useing a thick rubber band over the hammer and down over the trigger guard and wal-laa i could fire 2-3 shots before the rubber band was burnt threw. my dad thought it was funny, but took my revolver away and i never saw it again. i think he threw it down a ground hog hole. at close to 74 now, those care free times of my youth look realy good. i guess we remember the good times and forget the bad times as we get older. eastbank.
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Panzerschwein
member
I wonder if the Ubertis hold up to any amount of shooting? I would think one in .38 special would be a lot of fun.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy Again
The Uberti Top Breaks are good quality guns. I don't own any but I am quite familiar with them. As I have explained on this board and others, there is a problem with the Uberti Top breaks for a Black Powder shooter like myself. Because of certain engineering changes in making the replicas, they do not perform well with Black Powder. They tend to bind up when shot with Black Powder cartridges. But they are fine for Smokeless ammo.
I have been searching a post where I explained all that, with photos, but I have so far not been able to find it.
Maybe later.
Panzerschwein
member
I would only be shooting smokeless factory .38s.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
I have a friend who shoots a pair of Uberti Schofields in Cowboy Action Shooting. He does not beat the tar out of them, but he shoots them a lot. So far they are holding up fine.
Bear in mind, Uberti only makes replicas of the large #3 sized Top Breaks. The Russian, Schofield, and New Model Number Three. Of these, only the Schofield and Russian models are chambered for 38 Special. A large frame revolver like that, with a small bore such as 38 Special is going to be a heavy gun, significantly heavier than a 44 or 45. Also, because of the odd grip shape, I do not recommend the Russian model. Very awkward to shoot.
That big hump on the Russian grip makes it awkward to shoot. I have to regrip every time to reach the hammer spur, and then regrip again before firing to get my hand below the hump. If I fire with my hand in contact with the hump, it hurts.
The grip shape of the Schofield is much more condusive to comfortable shooting.
Best of all is the New Model Number Three. Uberti makes a replica they call the Laramie. Taylors sells a version they call the New Model Number Three Frontier, but it is only available chambered for 45 Colt.
Corpral_Agarn
Member
Always a good thread when driftwood starts posting pics!
Panzerschwein
member
38 oz for the one I am looking at, 5" bbl blued finish No. 3 2nd Model. Not appreciably heavier than a K-frame with a similar length barrel.
C5rider
Member
Would LOVE a Schofield in 45 Colt!
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Just for reference, that 1st Model Schofield of mine, with a 7" barrel, chambered for the 45 Schofield round, weighs 41 ounces.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
And that is why they perform so badly with Black Powder.
Panzerschwein
member
Very cool. As a non reloader, a .38 special is just more appealing as I would certainly put the gun through its paces at the range.
C5rider
Member
I'm sorry. Not sure what you mean. Please 'splain?
Panzerschwein
member
I think because they had to fit the .45 Colt into the Schofield design, they had to do away with the gas ring or whatever it's called on the cylinder. This means fouling gums up fast on there. Just no room for that long .45 Colt round AND that ring thingy that I can't remember the name of that makes it not foul so fast.
At least that what I picked up from some of Driftwood's post! Am I learnin', Driftwood??
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