Good use of CCW durring robbery VIDEO

[AWorthyOpponent]

Just browsing YouTube, I came across this video. It portrays a man with a gun robbing the front desk of a hotel. I think he handled the situation well and ultimately only the bad guy got hurt. What do you guys think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AA_dgRdDhk&feature=related

 

[rm23]

That little girl was about 3 inches from the line of fire.

I'm really surprised the mom just stood there during the robbery and didn't move to her right more than she did.

 

[RS14]

That little girl was about 3 inches from the line of fire.

I had the same thought.

(She doesn't seem at all alarmed by all the commotion, though. What a kid.)

Also the robber seems to turn and run immediately, in which case the clerk potentially continued firing longer than was warranted. OTOH, the comment indicates that the robber fired several shots himself; it's not clear to me if he did so when the clerk first opened fire, or while retreating.



I'm glad it worked out well.

 

[Jim_100]

Wow. What they said ^. That did look very close to the sappling. Glad all ok except for scumbag. It looked like it happened pretty fast but I probably would have turned and covered child a bit more robustly. Again at least they are fine. Boy the guy behind the counter did not mess around did he.

 

[duns]

Some people appear to have picked out more details than I did.To me, it just seemed like the Mom moved herself and her child in just sufficient time that the clerk was able to shoot the bad guy. So all worked out well.

 

[navyretired 1]

Arm chair quarter backing is easy. The little girl was in danger zone but clerk seemed 100% aware and functioning. Looks like the first hits were off screen but BG didn't go down and didn't drop weapon. The clerk advanced to door as soon as possible to ensure safety of office.
Be nice if the little girl hadn't been there but she was and that BG won't ever use her as cover again, or anyone else.
After reviewing tape again the first hit's were not off screen and the clerk appeared to clear little girl before firing. From the reactions of on screen the BG must have fired first so it was self defence and damn good shooting 3 rounds, 3 hits, too fast to time but looked like about 1 to 1 1/2 seconds. Plenty of time for adrenaline to be messing with your reflexes.

 

[Blakenzy]

This has been posted before around here. But yeah, the mother was some kind of moron...or zombie, standing around like that while it all went down.

 

[duns]

...the mother was some kind of moron...or zombie, standing around like that while it all went down.

How so? Seemed to me she was stunned for a second or two then moved rapidly aside with her child so the clerk could start shooting at the bad guy. End result was she removed herself and her child from the line of fire. What details did I miss that make you call her a moron or zombie?

I have to say that I don't think much of you anyway for using terms like "moron" and "zombie". Moron was once a psychological term but is now out of use. A zombie is a fictional creature. You are using these terms as mindless abuse. What is it you are really trying to say? Could you express it in simple, polite English?

 

[EddieNFL]

Arm chair quarter backing is easy.

Yep. I have more completions than Drew Brees.

 

[SaxonPig]

I am all in favor of shooting armed robbers but I think the clerk wasn't concerned enough about bystanders in the middle of a gunfight. I think he was unwise to draw and engage the perp with the people standing literally between himself and the criminal. Putting the woman and child at risk outweighed stopping the criminal, in my opinion.

You have to pick the time and place to fight and you can't forget safe gun handling in an emergency situation.

 

[MisterMike]

I am all in favor of shooting armed robbers but I think the clerk wasn't concerned enough about bystanders in the middle of a gunfight. I think he was unwise to draw and engage the perp with the people standing literally between himself and the criminal. Putting the woman and child at risk outweighed stopping the criminal, in my opinion.

Piggy--

You might be right, but you might be wrong. Clearly, anytime there are bystanders between you and the robber, it's a situation fraught with peril. However, it's hard to discern just how jumpy the robber was during this encounter. I can easily envision this as a situation where the clerk, sensing that the criminal's use of force was imminent, decided that the risk of not acting was greater than the danger of engaging the guy with force.

Regardless, even if that aspect was a close call, the clerk took decisive action to move laterally, clearing his coworker and the mom and kid from the line of fire. So, while I acknowledge that you might be right, I'd go the other way. Of course, in this whole exercise of Monday morning quarterbacking, we need to recall that we have the benefit of watching, rewinding, and dissecting something that occurred over the course of a handful of seconds and involved an imminent threat of loss of life.

My grade? A.

 

[bababooey32]

think the clerk wasn't concerned enough about bystanders in the middle of a gunfight.

Well, he was concerned enough not to hit any of them. To me that is "enough" concern.

We can't always pick the setup of a gunfight we might end up in. Sometimes there are risks. In this case the shooter mitigated the risks sufficiently to succesfully defend himself and everyone present.

A+

 

[HighStrung]

While I too found that the little girl was real close, I don't at all fault the clerk for the timing of his actions. I would have imagined that the mother would have moved a little quicker in getting herself and her child out of the immediate threat (ie move to the right quickly and get down covering your child). Great job of hiding the drawing of your gun by the clerk, using the other clerk as cover while drawing so the robber didn't see it was perfect, needless to say this guy had practiced this situation (or similar situations) and his response almost textbook in many ways. Would it have bothered me if this was my child, not by what the clerk did, but by what the mother of my child did not do. My wife and I have practiced on several occasions what to do if we're out with the kids and something happens, she moves/covers the kids and I cover them while addressing the threat. Of course, she would have been getting the kids behind her while deciding on how to get the Colt out of her purse during this process too.

 

[navyretired 1]

Who knows what I would have done but this clerk was obviously trained, his every move was positive and correct. He cleared leather out of sight of BG and delayed firing til others were as clear as possible. I would say military or Ex-military. The reason we train is so we use that first second of possible response and take positive action.
The clerk could have taken his shot off screen but stayed til other victoms were clear.
The mothers reaction time was about normal which just proves this clerk speed and decision making. He can take my back anytime.


A+ with extra credit

 

[Mandolin]

Very nice! good for the clerk. I think they all need there heering checked though. looked like the gun was right next to female clerk's ear.

 

[navyretired 1]

Buddy in that fight everyones ears are ringing, Hell even mine are and I wasn't there.

 

[gym]

I think the outcome was great, but the clerk would probablly not have taken that shot if it was his kid. That woman could have moved either way and been shot by the BG. Or dropped the kid, all in all, a very lucky outcome for all.

 

[Mad Chemist]

This one is old news.
Criticize the the clerk all you want... Fact of the matter is that his aggressive response ended the assault and no innocents were harmed. If he had spent and extra half second assessing the situation things would have turned out much differently.

Also, it's difficult to gauge the the 3D distances when viewing them in a 2D format.

I agree that the mother seems a little dim with her less than rapid response. Hopefully the child has developed quicker reflexes as compensation.

 

[buy guns]

I have to say that I don't think much of you anyway for using terms like "moron" and "zombie". Moron was once a psychological term but is now out of use. A zombie is a fictional creature. You are using these terms as mindless abuse. What is it you are really trying to say? Could you express it in simple, polite English?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor

 

[bababooey32]

a very lucky outcome for all.

No, not lucky. As has been pointed out, the clerk was clearly well practiced (if not trained), and his aggressive but controlled actions prevented potential injury to several bystanders.

Luck would be if a ceiling tile dropped on the BG during the hold-up. This was the result of an armed citizen being well prepared.

 

[Hatterasguy]

The clerk did well, he is very well trained.

3 shots and 3 hits after clearing the people around him is hard, in a situation like that. The natural reaction is to empty the mag in the direction of the bad guy while trying to get cover yourself.

I'd guess he was ex military and had some experiance getting shot at.

 

[shockwave]

We can't always pick the setup of a gunfight we might end up in.

Great point. The clerk waited 'til he had the shot and then he took it. By my read, he fired 3 times in rapid succession. The mother is looking at the BG and doesn't know what's going on behind her so, from her perspective, she's terrified at being in the middle of a robbery and all of a sudden bang-bang-bang! Between the shock of the robbery and the gunfire from behind her, she was probably stunned and it is not reasonable to expect her to know what's going on behind her such that a move to the left was obvious.

I really like how the clerk handles his weapon and how he moves to the door to monitor the threat and keep it covered. Far as I'm concerned, this was textbook.

 

[Blakenzy]

What details did I miss that make you call her a moron or zombie?

Well, simply put she appeared to act as a mindless or very dull individual. There is no sound, but in viewing the body language, she acts very much unaware of the danger presented by a man, who is masked, has a gun, and is demanding money (a very clear and distinguishable threat, for pretty much anyone normal). The possibility that he may decide to shoot over the counter, the very counter where her daughter is sitting, doesn't seem to cross her mind until shots were fired, then she jolts back as if awoken from some stupor or dream and mouths what seems to be "OMG!".

At no time during the moments prior to the shooting did she make any attempt to pull her child off the counter (out of the potential harm's way) or at least put as much distance between the girl and the criminal as she could. The most she did was scoot a couple of inches to her right and stare at the clerks pull out the money, as if the criminal was just another customer, that happened to be in a rush.

I apologize if you find the words I used as abusive, but I feel that they are merely descriptive of the behavior shown in the video.

 

[Old Shooter]

His immediate, violent response to the armed threat disrupted whatever plan the BG may have had. Waiting for everyone to be in the clear might have let the situation develop in the BG's favor and this could have been a story about "mother and child and 2 employees killed in botched holdup attempt". Another A+ to the clerk.

 

[duns]

Well, simply put she appeared to act as a mindless or very dull individual. There is no sound, but in viewing the body language, she acts very much unaware of the danger presented by a man, who is masked, has a gun, and is demanding money (a very clear and distinguishable threat, for pretty much anyone normal). The possibility that he may decide to shoot over the counter, the very counter where her daughter is sitting, doesn't seem to cross her mind until shots were fired, then she jolts back as if awoken from some stupor or dream and mouths what seems to be "OMG!".

At no time during the moments prior to the shooting did she make any attempt to pull her child off the counter (out of the potential harm's way) or at least put as much distance between the girl and the criminal as she could. The most she did was scoot a couple of inches to her right and stare at the clerks pull out the money, as if the criminal was just another customer, that happened to be in a rush.

I apologize if you find the words I used as abusive, but I feel that they are merely descriptive of the behavior shown in the video.

The bad guy was behind her. She may not have seen as much as you saw on the video. Even if she did, it may have seemed prudent to her not to make any sudden movements -- can't you see that keeping still in front of a gunman might be a wise thing to do? Even if she was unaware what was going on, it just makes her preoccupied or unobservant and neither a moron or a zombie as you called her. It's not cool to call people names. You weren't describing her behavior, you were categorizing her using terms that are never appropriate because they are essentially meaningless while still being offensive. Anyway, apology accepted .