Government confiscation of weapons

[docsleepy]

Okay guys, another chance to educate me!

Let's just say that you were involved in a perfectly defensible home invasion defense effort, that resulted in a completely obviously defensible justifiable self-defense shooting. There's a smashed in front door, the 911 call, the shotgun shot, the perpetrator laying in a pool of blood on the floor, maybe even video camera who knows, whatever it takes to make it obviously justifiable. And to boot, in a state with a very good Castle doctrine.

Now here comes the police. What exactly are they going to confiscate?
One. The firearm used in the self-defense shooting?
Two. Other visible firearms?
Three. The contents of a locked safe?
Four. Other firearms that are hidden in other not obviouss locations or locked locations in the house?
Five. Other firearms owned by you and stored off location?

 

[mbogo]

Depending on the state, they may not 'confiscate' anything.

If the circumstances of the shooting are dubious, police in some jurisdictions may take custody of the firearm used (and provide a receipt) as evidence. In most jurisdictions, you would get the firearm back once the DA declined to prosecute or a grand jury returned a 'no true bill' of indictment.

mbogo

 

[TParrish]

Depending on the state, they may not 'confiscate' anything.

If the circumstances of the shooting are dubious, police in some jurisdictions may take custody of the firearm used (and provide a receipt) as evidence. In most jurisdictions, you would get the firearm back once the DA declined to prosecute or a grand jury returned a 'no true bill' of indictment.

mbogo

Based upon what I have been told by legal types, thie above is correct. The gun should be returned once it no longer has evidentiary value. I'd probably (politely) ask the police officer taking the gun into custody for a recipt for it. But that's just me.

 

[Sam1911]

Usually they would take into evidence anything that the investigator feels is material to the case. There would be very little call for them to go searching around outside of the actual scene of the crime or to demand to be shown other weapons you might have.

Unless, of course, there is some reason to think that what's obvious in the immediate area is not the whole story.

 

[Ranger Roberts]

Usually they would take into evidence anything that the investigator feels is material to the case. There would be very little call for them to go searching around outside of the actual scene of the crime or to demand to be shown other weapons you might have.

Unless, of course, there is some reason to think that what's obvious in the immediate area is not the whole story.

Sam hit the nail on the head. Only items that are material to the case would be taken into evidence. Let's say the thief made it into the room where your safe is located and even tried to get into it, as long as the safe wasn't breached there wouldn't be a reason for any investigator to actually open it. They would print it and photograph it but that would be it. All the evidence would be submitted to the district attorney and he/she would choose whether or not to press charges against you. If charges are dropped everything that was confiscated as evidence would be returned. The biggest downside to the whole process.... those wheels turn very slowly. I wouldn't expect to get your possessions back in a timely matter.

 

[deadin]

I wouldn't expect to get your possessions back in a timely matter.

And if they are anything neat, expensive or unusual expect that they will have been "thumbed and gigged" a lot while in the evidence room....

 

[docsleepy]

Thanks guys

 

[Nicky Santoro]

OP,
If a body is not found on your living room floor, are you involved? I'm not advocating anything, merely asking a question.

 

[Sam1911]

OP,
If a body is not found on your living room floor, are you involved? I'm not advocating anything, merely asking a question.

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The OP's question involved a shooting during a home-break-in. There's either a body, a wounded attacker, or a big mess and a suspect who has fled and at large.

If there's a body, there's a body.

If there's a wounded attacker, you need someone to come deal with him medically and take him into custody.

If the guy fled the scene, you STILL must report it because a) you've fired a weapon at another person, and b) someone has committed a felony and they need to be arrested and tried for that crime.

 

[Frank Ettin]

1. The house is now a crime scene.
   
   
2. What may appear to you to be obviously justified might not necessarily immediately appear that way to the officers arriving on scene.
   
   
3. The violent event will be investigated, the crime scene will need to be secured and any possible evidence taken and preserved.

 

[docsleepy]

so, Frank, what does that mean? How far can they compel a homeowner to open locked safes, etc?

 

[Colonel]

No matter what, this all seems like a lot of conjecture. Who knows?

 

[JRWhit]

Just to back up what has already been said, a good friend of mine was in a non lethal situation, where a man was approaching him with a blunt object in a very threatening manor. His weapon was drawn and the would be attacker immediately backed off. The police were called, and of course the attacker had a different story. My friends fire arm was confiscated for evidence and was returned to him within two weeks. Multiple witness confirmed my friend's story. So there was never really an issue with the would be attacker's tall tale.

 

[Sam1911]

How far can they compel a homeowner to open locked safes, etc?

However far they can concince a judge to grant a search warrant.

It is conjecture, of course, so it can't be decisively answered. But if the investigators can provide a reason that makes enough sense, a judge will issue the warrant and the safe will be opened.

 

[itsa pain]

Usually they would take into evidence anything that the investigator feels is material to the case. There would be very little call for them to go searching around outside of the actual scene of the crime or to demand to be shown other weapons you might have.

Unless, of course, there is some reason to think that what's obvious in the immediate area is not the whole story.

Wishful thinking Sam. My friend call ambulance for an old guy next door and cops always show up first being they have nothing to do. The guy lived alone and was 94 and they saw two open pill bottles on the table and said that was a violation wanted to press it further and was talked out of it by the ambulance guy

 

[allaroundhunter]

OP,
If a body is not found on your living room floor, are you involved? I'm not advocating anything, merely asking a question.

This statement is saying that after you kill the guy, to bury him in the hills outside of Terlingua and clean up your house...

Not exactly something that we promote at THR...


And yes, your advocation is implied.

 

[BSA1]

Now here comes the police. What exactly are they going to confiscate?
One. The firearm used in the self-defense shooting?
Two. Other visible firearms?
Three. The contents of a locked safe?
Four. Other firearms that are hidden in other not obviouss locations or locked locations in the house?
Five. Other firearms owned by you and stored off location?

Simple answer is MAYBE.

The police should follow the evidence trail to whether it leads them. I am of the opinion that this trail may include statements you may have made previously.

For example; A popular gunshop topic is what to do after self-defense shooting. A hopefully lesser heard piece of advice is if you shoot someone on your front porch you should drag his body inside your house before calling the cops.

Another horrible piece of "advice" is if it turns out the person you shot was unarmed you should have a "throw down" gun to plant beside the body. While discussing this topic you had previously stated in jest "Yep I agree. I have several guns in my safe that nobody knows I own."

After the shooting incident it would be a fair statement that you will be the hot topic of discussion. Someone remembers you making that comment and drops a dime to the police hotline.

I don't think it would be unreasonable for the police to expand their investigation and to become interested in what other guns and evidence you may have locked away. What kind of evidence??? Maybe the box the gun came in that was found by the victim.

This may seem like a reach but over my career I have encountered far stranger facts and circumstances.

 

[docsleepy]

This gets more interesting with each added comment!

Sounds like the best thing to do is to say nothing stupid ever.

[That leaves out most political types.....!!]

 

[Frank Ettin]

Sounds like the best thing to do is to say nothing stupid ever.

With regard to the aftermath of a defensive use of force incident see this thread.

 

[jgiehl]

Could be any firearm they deem necessary to the case.
But also remember, this is the time to be 250% honest.
You need to be forthright, volunteer any and all information they need to do their job well.
Because if they sense one ounce of BS they will sniff it out.
If they investigating officer comes to your house after the night to do another walk through, walk through it with him, help him out.
The point to be made is that it's your home, you have no reason to hide in your own home.
And this is how the REAL "gun culture of America" behaves.
In the end it's your name and life on the line, again.

 

[mbogo]

Do not EVER talk to the police without your lawyer present.

Say nothing that can be twisted and turned against in a court proceeding (criminal or civil).

mbogo

 

[Frank Ettin]

Do not EVER talk to the police without your lawyer present....

Not necessarily the best idea in a self defense incident. See the thread I linked to for a detailed discussion. But let's not sidetrack this thread.

 

[MedWheeler]

I've seen a wide range of responses by investigators. In some, defenders never got the involved guns back. In one I read of, the defender didn't even have his taken' he was simply asked to bring it by the station the next day for a test-fire.

In another, the defender not only got his gun back, he also go back his remaining unfired ammunition and his fired brass.

I've yet to hear of a case in which all the defender's uninvolved firearms were immediately taken without some of reasonable suspicion of a felony having been committed by him at the time.

In no-shoot defensive firearm-usage cases, most of those I've studied had the firearm back in the hands of the defender within 24 hours, if not even prior to the departure of responding officers.

 

[blindhari]

Docsleepy,
You forgot
6 They can also confiscate the video tape and surrvielance system
Local cops came by with a court search order to take mine when they found out I had one camera pointed at the entrance to our court.

blindhari

 

[Zoogster]

This will all depend on the respect the local authorities and warrant signing judges have in the jurisdiction.

There is plenty of cases where they confiscate all firearm the homeowner has in what appears to be a justified shooting (but still needs an investigation.

I have taken note to myself of such cases in the past because it makes it quite clear you could be made vulnerable by authorities to retaliation by gang members or others upset you hurt someone.

In jurisdictions with more support of defensive actions they may take no firearm. In others the ones involved in the case.
While in some they may take all present in the home, and ask the residents about others. The law enforcement and investigators will make judgment calls and the extent of what they can get away with may depend on what the District Attorney, and warrant signing judges, thinks is acceptable, as well as what your own attorney makes them second guess doing.
So it will also partially be determined by your pocket book and attorney. An attorney holding people to the letter of the law will often reduce how extensive they are in their discretion.