FL-NC
Member
I prefer 4" for 357, 6" for 44.
GP100 5" OR 686 4" or 6"?
- Thread starter wild cat mccane
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Regarding .357 Magnum short-barrel performance, well, I am an anecdotal sample of one, not a data point, but a Federal Hi-Shok 125-grain JHC* .357 Magnum I fired into a human, in 1993, with a 4" GP100, produced the most horrendous handgun gunshot wound I have seen in over three decades of policing in the USA's fourth-largest city. The gaping entrance wound was like nothing I have seen, before or since. Four inches was "enough" in this case.
Of course, I do not usually know the bullet used, because a fired cartridge case offers no evidence of the bullet configuration launched from the case.
I do tend to see more than the normal number of shooting scenes, because I have been the night shift "camera unit" for my division since 2010; normal patrol with the added responsibility for photography of scenes other than murders. (CSU/CSI/ID units photograph most non-suicide death scenes.)
Notably, not many of my colleagues carried full-pressure Magnums in their .357 duty revolvers, as I did. Most used mid-range Magnums or .38 +P, or switched to autos after their probationary period was completed. We went to the .40 in 1997, with previous duty handguns grandfathered. Later, specified .45 ACP and 9mm pistols became authorized alternatives.
Today, I carry 124-grain 9mm +P Gold Dots, on duty, and during most of my personal time. I may never again voluntarily fire full-pressure Magnums, or, for that matter, the snappy .40 S&W, with my aging, ailing right hand. I limit my lefty Magnum shooting.
Of course, I do not usually know the bullet used, because a fired cartridge case offers no evidence of the bullet configuration launched from the case.
I do tend to see more than the normal number of shooting scenes, because I have been the night shift "camera unit" for my division since 2010; normal patrol with the added responsibility for photography of scenes other than murders. (CSU/CSI/ID units photograph most non-suicide death scenes.)
Notably, not many of my colleagues carried full-pressure Magnums in their .357 duty revolvers, as I did. Most used mid-range Magnums or .38 +P, or switched to autos after their probationary period was completed. We went to the .40 in 1997, with previous duty handguns grandfathered. Later, specified .45 ACP and 9mm pistols became authorized alternatives.
Today, I carry 124-grain 9mm +P Gold Dots, on duty, and during most of my personal time. I may never again voluntarily fire full-pressure Magnums, or, for that matter, the snappy .40 S&W, with my aging, ailing right hand. I limit my lefty Magnum shooting.
WestKentucky
Member
I have had and love 6" .357s. I started that love affair with a Taurus 66, moved to gp100 (2 bad barrels in a row, plus horrible triggers) and ended up with a great big hole in my collection where a 6" 357 belonged. I traded into a 4" 686 and have had zero remorse. The 4" balances as well, shoots as well, and is easier to carry for weight and easier to find good holsters for. In either flavor of barrel length, a 686 is not going to disappoint.
I have a 3" full lug gp100 and a partial lug 6" gp100. The 3" feels just great in the hand with a set of compact grips and the 6" barrel with partial lug felt so much better than the full lug version that I waited until one came along. The stubby grip tang on Ruger revolvers really messes with the balance and the long barrels make it worse in my very subjective opinion. Without reloading I can't afford to put a lot of magnums down range so I wasn't interested in the recoil mitigation of a few extra ounces or the a full lug either. I only wish that my 3" model had better sights like the Wiley Clapp edition, or that Ruger's Match Champion models didn't have such glaring flats milled into the barrel.
roaddog28
Member
I would buy a 686 either prelock or lock. I have owned three 686 revolvers. two prelocks and I still have a 686 plus with the internal lock. The complaints with the lock I have never seen. Other that appearance my 686 plus is just as good as the older prelocks I used to own.
I have also owned two Ruger GP-100 revolvers. One had a very bad trigger that would hang up or lock up shooting double action. Neither Ruger or a gunsmith could fix the issue. The other GP-100 I owned was a reliable and serviceable revolver. But still the revolver never had the trigger that my S&W 686 revolvers had.
Length of barrel is a 4 inch for me. Everybody has there own opinions.
I will share one thing. If I wanted a Ruger 357 magnum 4 inch revolver now I would get a nice Security Six. I am one of the few shooters that believe the Security Six was a better revolver than the current GP100.
That is my view.
Howard
I have also owned two Ruger GP-100 revolvers. One had a very bad trigger that would hang up or lock up shooting double action. Neither Ruger or a gunsmith could fix the issue. The other GP-100 I owned was a reliable and serviceable revolver. But still the revolver never had the trigger that my S&W 686 revolvers had.
Length of barrel is a 4 inch for me. Everybody has there own opinions.
I will share one thing. If I wanted a Ruger 357 magnum 4 inch revolver now I would get a nice Security Six. I am one of the few shooters that believe the Security Six was a better revolver than the current GP100.
That is my view.
Howard
Tacoma
Member
When it comes to Revolvers, S&W sets the standard.
For your wants, either the 5" Talo 686+ or the 686+ Pro series fit the bill. Both come in 5"> Both have different/upgraded features and both are very sweet shooters.
If you do opt for a GP100, take a good look at the Match Champion. IT has a 4.25" barrel, (somewhat) slicked action, 1/2 lugged barrel, FO sight and a few other tweaks.
BTW, If you don't mind a slightly larger gun, the S&W 627 PC in 5" is about as perfect a handgun as you can own.
p.s. This is based on my personal experience as I have owned all of the above. Still own several of the S&W's.
For your wants, either the 5" Talo 686+ or the 686+ Pro series fit the bill. Both come in 5"> Both have different/upgraded features and both are very sweet shooters.
If you do opt for a GP100, take a good look at the Match Champion. IT has a 4.25" barrel, (somewhat) slicked action, 1/2 lugged barrel, FO sight and a few other tweaks.
BTW, If you don't mind a slightly larger gun, the S&W 627 PC in 5" is about as perfect a handgun as you can own.
p.s. This is based on my personal experience as I have owned all of the above. Still own several of the S&W's.
Milkmaster
Member
Pretty much how I feel as well. I thought I wanted a 3" barrel until I shot both a 3 and a 4 inch model. I decided on the 4" GP100 and have been happy ever since. It is accurate and heavy enough not to wreck my wrist when shooting .357 and .38spl is not a challenge at all. I liked the S&W 686, but in the end I could not see the price difference.
CajunBass
Member
I'm a Smith & Wesson snob. Ruger builds an excellent revolver, but if you gave me one, I'd thank you, very sincerely, then wait a decent length of time, before selling it to buy a Smith & Wesson. They're just too ugly for my taste.
Unfortunately, most of the new Smith & Wesson's fall into the same category, even the generally loved 686. I just don't care for full length underlugs, with the exception of the Colt Python.
HOWEVER...If I was going to buy a new Smith & Wesson, it would either be a 686, or more likely, one of the new Model 66's. The "new" Model 66 has fixed whatever problems the "old" 19/66 may have had, real or imagined. I don't care about locks or MIN parts or any of that nonsense. There isn't a thing wrong with those guns.
But then I liked the Taurus 357's I've owned in the past too.
Oh...barrel lengths. I've owned short barrels, I've owned long barrels. I've settled on 4". The perfect balance. I suppose if I wanted to hunt with a handgun, I'd be interested in longer barrels, but I don't so I'm not.
Unfortunately, most of the new Smith & Wesson's fall into the same category, even the generally loved 686. I just don't care for full length underlugs, with the exception of the Colt Python.
HOWEVER...If I was going to buy a new Smith & Wesson, it would either be a 686, or more likely, one of the new Model 66's. The "new" Model 66 has fixed whatever problems the "old" 19/66 may have had, real or imagined. I don't care about locks or MIN parts or any of that nonsense. There isn't a thing wrong with those guns.
But then I liked the Taurus 357's I've owned in the past too.
Oh...barrel lengths. I've owned short barrels, I've owned long barrels. I've settled on 4". The perfect balance. I suppose if I wanted to hunt with a handgun, I'd be interested in longer barrels, but I don't so I'm not.
A transfer bar will only make noticeable noise if you are shaking the gun like a canastas... I would either stop shaking it violently or shoot the gun without hearing protection until you can not hear it anymore 
Or quit being so anal
I believe you said "help a boy"- GROW UP
four or six have trade offs. Most can shoot a 6 inch better due to sight radius- a four inch is easier to pack. Mostly its going to be personal preference unless there are barrel length requirements for some activity such as hunting or competition of some sort. Just buy the one you like- hard to go wrong with a 4-6 inch .357 revolver. Thats has been true since the 357 came out and is still true today.
One note is that there is NO perfect gun. All have tradeoffs of one sort or another.
Or quit being so anal
I believe you said "help a boy"- GROW UP
four or six have trade offs. Most can shoot a 6 inch better due to sight radius- a four inch is easier to pack. Mostly its going to be personal preference unless there are barrel length requirements for some activity such as hunting or competition of some sort. Just buy the one you like- hard to go wrong with a 4-6 inch .357 revolver. Thats has been true since the 357 came out and is still true today.
One note is that there is NO perfect gun. All have tradeoffs of one sort or another.
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RON in PA
Member
If you are into shooting double action primarily get a Smith as it has a superior trigger.
old lady new shooter
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FWIW, when I was deciding between a 686 and a GP-100, I got the gun store range to let me try both in the same session, and I alternated shooting them to see which was more accurate. For me the 686 was hugely more accurate than the GP-100, so that settled the question. While presumably different people could get different results, I think this type of comparison is a good idea for anybody.
wild cat mccane
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OP here
So here is where I am at.
I find the GP100 ugly. Large lettering on both barrel slides, SS finish has swirl marks, a undefined barrel/lug that is identical to the Taurus Tracker series, and the grip looks unfinished. And the trigger is pretty heavy. But people seem to love it. So I haven't ruled it out and might get it again.
I think the 686 4" is out. I have 1,200fps 9mm ammo--sure not heavy at 124gr. , but that's nearly the same from 357 in the same barrel length.
686 6" or GP100 5" still undecided...
So here is where I am at.
I find the GP100 ugly. Large lettering on both barrel slides, SS finish has swirl marks, a undefined barrel/lug that is identical to the Taurus Tracker series, and the grip looks unfinished. And the trigger is pretty heavy. But people seem to love it. So I haven't ruled it out and might get it again.
I think the 686 4" is out. I have 1,200fps 9mm ammo--sure not heavy at 124gr. , but that's nearly the same from 357 in the same barrel length.
686 6" or GP100 5" still undecided...
Have you actually chrono'd that or are you just reading it off the box? I've gotten almost 1200 fps with 9mm NATO 124 gr. out of a 5 inch barrel but with most 9mm 124 gr. ammo, I get 1100 fps.
With a 4 inch 357, you can get 1200 fps with a 158 gr. bullet easily.
If you're making decisions based on what the manufacturer prints on the ammo box, well...good luck with that.
Deanimator
Member
If it's pre-lock, the 686.
Otherwise the Ruger.
I have a safe full of S&W revolvers. Not one of them has the lock.
Not one of them ever will.
Otherwise the Ruger.
I have a safe full of S&W revolvers. Not one of them has the lock.
Not one of them ever will.
Coal Dragger
member
A Gun Broker search turned up only 2 Korth Combats in .357 for sale, both 6" guns, both just short of $6K "buy now" price. Neither one of which you can get serviced in the US should you need service.
A search for Manurhin MR73's turned up 1 sport model for $7K. And again it is totally orphaned for any kind of service if you need it.
I like to shoot, I buy my firearms to use. So if I can't get a gun fixed should it go down from use, it is of limited value to me. The Nighthawk branded Korth isn't to your liking, but the price tags on the used guns you like are absurd to me considering they can't be serviced if they need it. A person buying one of those revolvers could end up with a very very expensive paper weight, or a very expensive very lengthy wait time for the gun to be sent to France or Germany as the case may be for service.
What you call an "abomination" I see as a functional tool meant to be used, that may justify its price if the performance and durability are commensurate with that price. I suspect that the Nighthawk Korth will shoot just as well as the Korth Combat, and be just as durable for the end user. As good looking? No, not even close. As good an investment if you are a collector? Nope. A better actual tool to shoot and use that you can get fixed if needs be? Yep. Plus that utilitarian finish will hold up to holster wear and field use, something I doubt most Korth owners of the classic lines would ever dream of given the value of their investments and the beauty of the guns.
Confederate
Member
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Confederate
Member
The S&W 686, when it was first introduced, was one of the most accurate .357s made. Today, it's still one of the most accurate, though it sports a lock, lacks the wood grips and hard chromed hammers and triggers.
wild cat mccane
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what is the material for the S&W trigger and hammer? Stainless too? Or not?
Coal Dragger
member
Used to be case hardened high carbon steel, not sure now. Might be MIM.
I hear what you're saying, but I'd rather have an older PC revolver than something like that Nighthawk. I'm not even sure what to make of that thing.
As for the Korth and Manurhin, there are no finer or stronger 357 Magnums in the world. If anything could last a lifetime with no maintenance, its those two.
Coal Dragger
member
I'm waiting to see a well conducted test of the Nighthawk Korth. Also curious to see if having an official US distributor will entice them to offer their highee end models here on an official basis. Not that I can afford the higher end guns, the Mongoose would be about my limit.
I did watch a video featuring Grant Cunningham and he had a lot of positive things to say about the Nighthawk Korths. Given his staunch views of declining quality of US made DA revolvers it was nice to see we may have another option for top quality wheel guns.
I did watch a video featuring Grant Cunningham and he had a lot of positive things to say about the Nighthawk Korths. Given his staunch views of declining quality of US made DA revolvers it was nice to see we may have another option for top quality wheel guns.
wild cat mccane
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Nighthawk starts at $3.5K? Not much of a contribution to this area on a 600-$650 GP100/686.
Coal Dragger
member
Ummm.....save more money? LOL
In my defense, unless I missed it, you did not declare a budget until now.
Have you considered a new Dan Wesson 715? A bit more than the $650 range, but so is a 686. With the DW you can change barrels yourself so you can have multiple lengths.
I've been tempted by the few new 715's I've handled.
In my defense, unless I missed it, you did not declare a budget until now.
Have you considered a new Dan Wesson 715? A bit more than the $650 range, but so is a 686. With the DW you can change barrels yourself so you can have multiple lengths.
I've been tempted by the few new 715's I've handled.
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