Grand jury blames gun (Glock) in trooper's shooting of suspect

[SlimeDog]

Anybody see this yet? Yikes! Words fail me...

http://www.al.com/newsflash/regional/index.ssf?/base/news-7/1085639408159250.xml

The Associated Press
5/27/2004, 12:34 a.m. CT

BAY MINETTE, Ala. (AP) -- A grand jury cleared a state trooper in the killing of a suspected car thief, saying the officer's gun encouraged a loose trigger finger.

The Baldwin County grand jury placed the blame for the shooting on the service pistol used by state troopers, which is easier to fire than some other weapons used by law enforcement officers.

Trooper Angel Rodriguez was cleared by the grand jury of criminal wrongdoing Wednesday.

Rodriguez shot Darrell Taylor, 22, of Prichard, in the neck with a .40-caliber Glock semiautomatic pistol on April 7, and Taylor died three days later.

The grand jury issued a report encouraging the state to review whether that type of pistol should be used in state service.

"It appears that the trooper reacted based upon his training with the weapon issued to him by the state," the report said.

Rodriguez, a seven-year veteran of the Department of Public Safety, has been serving administrative duty since the shooting. He couldn't be reached for comment Wednesday.

When Rodriguez stopped Taylor's car for a broken tail light, he put Taylor in the passenger's seat of the patrol car after Taylor couldn't produce a valid driver's license. Then Rodriguez found out the car was reported stolen.

Taylor's cousin, Antonio Taylor, told the Mobile Register in April he had loaned him the car and that it was not stolen.

Rodriguez ordered Taylor out of the car and pulled the pistol out of its holster, which is standard procedure, the grand jury said.

That's when the pistol went off, said Baldwin County District Attorney David Whetstone.

The Glock pistols used by state troopers have a 5-pound "trigger pull," which the grand jury said has a history of accidental discharge. The Department of Public Safety recently switched to an 8-pound trigger pull that is harder to fire.

Baldwin County James B. "Jimmy" Johnson told the grand jury he would never use a weapon with a trigger pull that light.

"You're under a lot of stress. ... Your adrenaline is running," Johnson said in an interview. "You tighten up your hands. It's not that hard for a weapon to be discharged."

 

[Ex-MA Hole]

A. There goes personal accountablity.
B. Why, why, why was his finger on the trigger?

 

[Aguila Blanca]

My 1911 has a 4-pound trigger.

If I have to shoot someone, I expect the prosecutor to claim I have a "hair trigger" to make it easier to kill people. Never thought I'd hear of a prosecutor using that as a defense.

 

[El Tejon]

I hereby order the removal of all triggers from all police firearms. That way the pistols cannot be fired! Next problem.

Hang the hardware, not the software.

I like the part where "the pistol went off." Gee, I wonder why it did that. Darn gun.

 

[Henry Bowman]

Never mind Rule#3. Just make it so it take two hands to pull the trigger. Better yet, a "cooling off period." Oh, but we'll exempt LEO from these new rules.

 

[TheEgg]

This defense would not have been accepted (I wager) for a regular old serf like me. Why was it accepted for the Police Officer?



Because the established power structure needs the good-will of the police force to remain in power and keep the serfs in line. This kind of thing indebts the police structure to the political structure and keeps them on the job.

Or, it could be that the grand jury in this case is just plain stupid.

That's when the pistol went off

-- all by itself, eh Bubba?

Common mantra of criminals and stupid dofuses the world over -- which was this cop? I don't know.

 

[GEM]

Obviously, police should wear a big lockable rubber finger on their trigger finger that can't fit into the grip unless removed by a supervisor during a crisis.

If your finger is on the trigger, 3 lbs doesn't mean squat if you squeeze it.

Baldwin County sure produces the finest firearms experts in the world.

 

[Deavis]

Don't learn trigger control, keep getting paid while under investigation, and in the end you get to keep your job after killing someone.

I'm sure he didn't mean to shoot him, but he put his finger on the trigger and should be held accountable. An ordinary citizen would already be in jail and he should be thrown in there too. at a minimum, he should be removed from public service.

 

[Feanaro]

Yep, the gun MADE him pull the trigger. He didn't have any choice...

 

[gunsmith]

I've pulled my Glock .40 on a BG

twice as a matter of fact,what little I remember from boot camp in the seventies kicked in. I didn't put my finger on the trigger,and it didn't "go off".
Grand Jury was a bunch of morons.

 

[Sgt Stevo]

Dumb A..

I have been carrying an m-16 or m-4 all my adult life. And NEVER had an ad. this guy is not the norm for cops. He F.....up. And found an out. Liberals eat this up. Finger should not been in the gard.

 

[Old Fuff]

You folks just don't understand safety ...

If the chamber hadn't been loaded this incident couldn't have happened.

If the magazine was empty ... well that would have been even better.

And if the gun had been locked in a holster without a release ... well that would have been perfect ....

Ask Sarah ...

It's for the children.

 

[gyp_c2]

...if that doesn't get squashed,

...we're all doomed if we ever shoot anyone...

 

[ssr]

How about this one:

http://web.dailytimes.com/story.lasso?wcd=10830


"The exam calls for the officer to pull the weapon out of a holster and fire while he or she is being timed by the range officer. Officers are trained for handling firearms in an emergency situation and the exam ensures they’ve acquired the skill and can perform under pressure.

O’Keefe’s holster has a safety feature — a hold and release mechanism — that requires him to hold down the safety button in order to remove the gun from the holster.

Holding the safety release button while pulling the weapon out of its holster forces the officer’s finger to be on the trigger while he is removing the gun.

Investigators determined that in the urgency of the timed exam, O’Keefe pulled the weapon out of the holster without realizing his finger was on the trigger and the gun discharged."



What kind of holster is this?! Nice "safety feature".

 

[Atticus]

A Glock's best feature, is it's worst feature....it's simple in design and typically fires when the trigger is pulled. Damned things.

 

[Dain Bramage]

Holding the safety release button while pulling the weapon out of its holster forces the officer’s finger to be on the trigger while he is removing the gun

I agree with ssr. The bull is starting to pile up about this in the media.

A. This was not a "timed exam", but the real world where people bleed.

B. There is not a holster release in the world that requires your finger on the trigger, outside of some fevered anti's crack dream.

This person should not be a LEO. His peers should shun him like a pariah, but that won't happen.

It's not only the ND and the dead victim, but the attitude and refusal of responsibilty.

 

[FishOrMan]

Not sure how to take this one. Very, very scary.

Do all states train their officers when pulling a gun, (even while still assessing a situation), to have their finger on the trigger?

If he was shot, without justification as it says, and had survived the first shot, would he have been allowed to shoot back?

Carried by 6 is not the honorable answer

 

[nico]

it really makes me mad that if a gun owner screws up like this, they're (rightfully) punished, but if a cop screws up, it was either an "honest mistake" or an equipment malfunction. Not to mention that the gun grabbers don't have a problem with cops not having any restrictions on them because they're "properly trained" to use guns.
btw, does it say anywhere why the car was reported stolen if the guy was just borrowing it from his cousin.

 

[ssr]

Hope my post above of a different incident did not confuse things. I posted another incident I read about today and quoted some of the article in my post.

 

[Baba Louie]

Can you say, "Re-directing Civil Legal Action away from the City/County/State?"
Sure. Knew you could.

The grand jury issued a report encouraging the state to review whether that type of pistol should be used in state service.

"Time for some new Sigs Boyz. What flavor do you want them? The too big .45, the too small no. 9, or the just right .40? And dag-nab-it Trooper Angel, repeat after me, "These new handguns do NOT encourage a loose trigger finger. Ya'll got that?"

...saying the officer's gun encouraged a loose trigger finger.

big sigh

 

[Pilgrim]

The Associated Press
5/27/2004, 12:34 a.m. CT

Montgomery, Ala. (AP)

The governor announced today that the next cadet class of Alabama State Police will include three unusual cadets. Three Glock .40 caliber pistols will be in the cadet class without any cadets assigned to them. The governor explained that in view of the Baldwin County grand jury finding that the Glock pistol was responsible for the killing of Darrell Taylor there was no need to incur the continuing expense of hiring and paying state troopers.

"It makes perfect sense," said the governor. "Why pay state troopers when the pistol is perfectly capable of killing criminals?"

In response to questions, the governor explained that the three cadet pistols were an experiment. It wasn't entirely clear if the pistols could be taught to write traffic citations. "After all, what is the point of saving money by not hiring state troopers if the pistols can't generate revenues by issuing traffic citations?"

However, commander of the Alabama State Police said all would not be a total loss if the pistols turned out to be incapable of writing traffic citations. "The pistols can always be assigned to the State Police SWAT team where killing would be their only duty."

 

[Standing Wolf]

Can you say, "Re-directing Civil Legal Action away from the City/County/State?"

Bingo!

 

[alan]

Seems as if the supply of ARRANT NONSENSE is well and truly without end.

Funny thing about firearms, and their triggers. When the latter is pulled, the former tend to fire, as they are supposed to. Funny thing #2. No matter how heavy or light the trigger pull on any particular firearm might be, absent a finger on the trigger, it is not going to fire, even in the hands of "DA MAN", a person, either male or female, who all to often doesn't really know how to PROPERLY HANDLE the weapon they are provided with.

Of course, while Glocks aren't perfect, nothing man made is, and I do not personally care for the things, the ultimate WEAK LINK is always the user. In this situation, it appears trhat nothing "new" has been added.

 

[Garrum]

Hold on here.

Rodriguez ordered Taylor out of the car and pulled the pistol out of its holster, which is standard procedure, the grand jury said.

Since when is it permissable to offer the threat of deadly force even before the alleged BG offers any resistance, much less aggression? You can't cuff someone with a gun in your hand, anyway. If this really is their policy, then they need to be beaten with an industrial strength ClueBat.

And beyond all of that, why did he have his finger on the Foxtrotting trigger? That is super ultra mega basic safety stuff, man. If he can't follow something that basic safety rule, I have no faith at all in him to follow other rules, such as no illegal searches or siezures, or don't beat on someone just cause no one sees you do it.

 

[The_Antibubba]

Don't forget the "logical" followup

Well, since the "experts" at the Department and the DA's office have weighed in about the total fallability of the gun, and the non-culpability of the officer, the family will now be free to sue Glock for distributing such a dangerous product.

What we need is an enterprising THR member in Alabama to sue the Police department, demanding that such unsafe devices be removed from service IMMEDIATELY!!!