Green Card gun purchases

[BigMoosie]

I have a question about the 90 residency rule for non US citizens buying firearms. I've lived in the US since July 08 and want to know if a recent 3 day trip out of the country will mean the 90 day residency rule gets reset. Looking at the ATF rules it states 90 continuous days prior to the purchase. I can see this could be interpreted in different ways. Up until October I was living here on a non-immigrant work visa, but now have my Green Card. I have been living at the same address since moving here and have utility bills, bank statements etc to prove my residency. I have just bought a new race-gun and want to know whether I have to wait this period before collecting it.

 

[MD_Willington]

Whats the issue date on the card?

 

[BigMoosie]

The issue date on my non-immigrant work visa was July 08, the issue date on my GC was Oct 09.

 

[MD_Willington]

October what 09?

Mine is 06/05/2005


Assuming October 1 2009, that's ~96 days with a green card.

Utility bills from the last 90 days, providing it has your name and your physical address on it, then they should be good.

 

[BigMoosie]

Oct 1st.

 

[BigMoosie]

But surely wouldn't they base the start of my residency from July 08? I purchased firearms before I got my GC and even got my pistol permit. The 3 day trip out of the country was made mid-december about 80 days after my GC was issued.

 

[MD_Willington]

In that case, you just need the 90 days of documents with your name and your physical address...

I too have purchased firearms before... I only recently had to do the 90 days proof of residency thing? Not sure why?

 

[BigMoosie]

I think the 90 day proof of residency has always been a requirement for GC holders and non-immigrants alike. Non-immigrant alien residents also have to provide a hunting license.

 

[everallm]

Assumption is that your GC has an issue date of greater than 90 days

Go in with your Green Card, drivers licence and bills/CC statements etc showing the last 3 months. That's it.

You have not broken your residency by going out and returning that's why it's called a Permanent Resident Alien.

 

[dbarale]

You're fine. I have made multiple short trips out of the US while I was a GC holder and it never affected my residency. Neither did moving to another state BTW...

 

[wishin]

I would not risk my residency status by using THR advice. Check with the immigration folks, the BATFE, or an attorney that specializes in the field.

 

[skookumchuck]

I never had any issues when I lived in the US. I don't think you will either they (ATF) just won't approve the trandfere if there is an issue on residency.

 

[Six]

I've lived in the US since July 08 and want to know if a recent 3 day trip out of the country will mean the 90 day residency rule gets reset.

According to a call my FFL made to BATFE, Yes!
You must have resided in a state for a continuous 90 days before the purchase.

From the 4473:
"A buyer who is not a citizen of the United States must provide additional documentation (beyond a valid government-issued photo identification that contains the buyer’s name, residence address, and date of birth) to establish that he or she has resided in a State for at least 90 days prior to the date of the sale."

Is that your FFLS interpretation? Is that BATFEs official answer, I dunno. But that's what BATFE told my FFL. Leaving the country resets the clock.

 

[BigMoosie]

I just spoke to my local ATF office, and was told that a trip out of the country doesn't break one's residency or reset the 90 day clock. I had a trip out of the country when I was on a non-immigrant visa and purchased a firearm close after and had no problem with NICS. In fact my trip out of the country last month after my GC was issued was a hunting trip; I took a long gun with me and had no problem reentering the country with the gun.

 

[Boris Barowski]

Is there a difference between residing/being a resident, and being present in the state/country at all times?

I'm a Belgian resident, hopping over to France for a couple of days does not change that fact. Even when in France I'm still a Belgian resident.

Is this interpreted the same way in US law? My English isn't perfect, so I'm just asking

 

[Six]

Is there a difference between residing/being a resident, and being present in the state/country at all times?

In general, you a re a resident of a state if you are present in a state with the intention of making a home in that state, or, if you have a home in that state.

You can be a resident of two states, in which case the state you are currently residing in is your state of residence.

 

[BigMoosie]

Six,

If leaving the country resets the 90 day clock are you meant to hand in the firearms you already own to an FFL? I think the 90 day rule is a question of interpretation. 90 continuous days prior to the purchase of a firearm could mean literally that, or it could also mean 90 continuous days any time prior to receiving one's Admission Number or Alien Number. If the interpretation is the former, what then is the point of the 90 day rule for Permanent Residents (GC holders)? I can see this being valid for non-immigrant aliens with Admission Numbers who aren't permanent residents and who come and go.

 

[Six]

Six,

If leaving the country resets the 90 day clock are you meant to hand in the firearms you already own to an FFL?

No, but keep in mind that the 90 days doesn't apply to private purchases either. Just when receiving from an FFL.

There's no real regulations on aliens owning firearms that I'm aware of, just purchasing them.

If the interpretation is the latter, what then is the point of the 90 day rule for Permanent Residents (GC holders)?

Don't assume that there is any rational thought involved here.

Keep in mind that the only aliens that are "caught" in this check are the ones who don't lie... A person who simply says he's a citizen, presents a state ID and CWP will walk out with a gun in 5 minutes. No NICS check, no background check, no immigration status check. Meanwhile the honest ones have to do additional paper work.

There is no sanity behind these regulations, but see this for some of the reasoning behind it - http://www.ttb.gov/rpd/tdatd389.htm


My FFL insisted on having the bills show 90 days worth of service dates, meaning each bill had to have a service period written on them.
The purpose my FFL gave me, after talking to BATFE, was that they require continuous residency to "prove" I was in the U.S. through the whole period.

 

[BigMoosie]

Six,

Everyone in NYS has to have a NICS check irrespective of their status - even gun show sales.

But what does 90 days of utility bills prove, during that time you might have left the country for a 2 week vacation. Do you get my point?

 

[everallm]

Six,

Your FFLs full of the brown and smelly I'm afraid

I am a GC'er so I am intimately aware of the law,

As a GC'er you have to show continuous RESIDENCE not PHYSICAL PRESENCE in the state, that's it. The requirement to show a DL or other state issued ID is that the GC does not have an address on it.

You can have been out of the country on business or pleasure for all 90 of the preceding days so long as you continue to maintain residence in the state.

By your FFL's idiotic reply an individual GC'er who lives in one state and works in another would never be able to purchase an FFL sourced firearm. This for example would affect a couple of hundred thousand individuals in the NY/NJ/CT area alone.

The ONLY occasion, as GC'er where the 90 day clock restarts is if you relinquish residence in one state and move to another state.

 

[Zero Knives]

Moosie,

The bills are to prove your residency in a particular location. A short vacation abroad does not effect your residency or, more importantly, your alien status. Leave the country for a continuous six months and then it becomes a whole different story...

As an aside, for your fellow GC holders, is your transfer suspended every time?

Not that I'll have to worry about any of this after this Friday. I have to admit that easier gun purchases motivated me just a little bit to get my citizenship...

 

[Six]

Everyone in NYS has to have a NICS check irrespective of their status - even gun show sales.

But what does 90 days of utility bills prove, during that time you might have left the country for a 2 week vacation. Do you get my point?

Absolutely, I'm saying that the whole exercise is pointless and actually proves nothing. So expecting any aspect to be rational is a mistake.

I posted my understanding based on what my FFL was told by BATFE, that may not be the official position, but then, it just might.

Me, I'd play it safe until I saw something in writing. The stakes are pretty damn high for aliens when it comes to fire arm laws.

 

[Six]

By your FFL's idiotic reply an individual GC'er who lives in one state and works in another would never be able to purchase an FFL sourced firearm. This for example would affect a couple of hundred thousand individuals in the NY/NJ/CT area alone.

The ONLY occasion, as GC'er where the 90 day clock restarts is if you relinquish residence in one state and move to another state.

The regulations mandate that you must be a resident of a state for 90 days. Abroad is not "a state".

What my FFL said, based on his call to BATFE, was that you can travel to any state, but once you step over the border, the clock is reset.

The reason for that is that they cannot know whether you were out of the country for a 3 day vacation, or six months and just maintaining utilities.

This may all be wrong, but since my green card didn't come with a law degree, I'll defer to your intimate awareness.

 

[BigMoosie]

Zero Knives,

My NICS checks are invariably delayed each time, I've only ever had one that got a "proceed" straight away. But I've never been denied.

 

[BigMoosie]

You would think if the 90 day rule (the way some are interpreting it) was such a big deal there would be a question on the NICS application stating "In the last 90 days have you at anytime left the US? Yes, or No?"