Grouping question

[goindeep]

ok...I have shot 2 4 shot groups...on both groups, I have 2 shots cloverleafed and two shots that are 1.5 inches higher than the cloverleafed shots...am I getting close to having the right load? I have done it twice now, and wonder if I am just about right. gimme some feedback.

 

[jfh]

I have absolutely no idea about how to respond base on the initial information--you need to tell us more.

Handgun, Long gun? caliber? sight type? distance?

load recipe--case, primer, bullet, powder charge.

Do you know in which order the shots were fired?

Jim H.

 

[ADKWOODSMAN]

Ditto!
RDH

 

[Walkalong]

Change in conditions that you don't account for. (rifle)

Change in shoulder pressure. (rifle)

Could be many things. How about a little more info. I always shoot 5 shot groups if I am serious.

 

[goindeep]

Sorry...here is more info
300WSM
168 grain barnes TSX
H414

shooting at 100 yards from caldwell led sled...no recoil, no flinching, seeing the target dot dissappear as the rifle goes off.

I am trying to figure out if maybe my groups are coming together...I have been increasing my loads by a half grain and my last 4 groups have been tighter as I increased the powder...but 2 are touching and 2 are off a little...I am letting the barrel cool completely between shots.

 

[Grumulkin]

ok...I have shot 2 4 shot groups...on both groups, I have 2 shots cloverleafed and two shots that are 1.5 inches higher than the cloverleafed shots...am I getting close to having the right load? I have done it twice now, and wonder if I am just about right.

I would expect the 300 WSM to be capable of 1 to 1.5 inch 3 shot groups or better at 100 yards measured center to center. How are you measuring your group size?

As far as whether or not it's "just about right," I don't know. Your gun and bullet may be capable of better accuracy. People don't generally require a hunting rifle to shoot one hole groups.

 

[Walkalong]

my last 4 groups have been tighter as I increased the powder...

You will reach a point where group size stabilizes and then starts going up again. Back off to where it stabilized. Often times if you keep going you will find another sweet spot, assuming you don't get into pressure trouble first.

Since you are confident of your hold and rest not contributing to the "2 Groups" in a group, then my bet is conditions. If you fire 2 rounds with headwind and then two with tail wind, no matter how slight, it will cause that. Even shooting with no wind and then with either a head or tail wind can do it. Until you shoot over windflags with a very accurate gun, it is hard to understand how much wind moves our bullets.

 

[goindeep]

I am measuring from the center of the outermost holes...isnt that correct?

 

[snuffy]

Judging from your other posts, is that the encore TC? I'd expect them to shoot no better than what you're seeing. The encore is like any other single shot, the lock-up between the barrel and the reciever can vary from shot to shot, you will see two distinct groups with it.

Also, there are better powders for the 300 WSM, h-4831 SC is my favorite, AA MRP 4350 is another. H-414 is almost the same as WW 760, which I found to be too fast a burn rate for top velocities in 300 WSM.

Best way to measure groups is with a caliper across the widest bullet holes outside to outside of those bullet holes. Then subtract the bullet diameter, in your case .308.

 

[goindeep]

yes, it is an encore with a custom barrel from match grade machine.

 

[Walkalong]

I am measuring from the center of the outermost holes...isnt that correct?

Measure center to center. That is correct. Or measure the widest point and subtract the bullet diameter. This is sometimes easier than eyeballing the center of a hole.

 

[jeepmor]

Best way to measure groups is with a caliper across the widest bullet holes outside to outside of those bullet holes. Then subtract the bullet diameter, in your case .308.

Better yet, measure same edge to same edge through the line that would connect the two holes like dot to dot. This eliminates doing any math for subtracting bullet diameter, and takes out the guess work of whether or not your actually in the very center of your hole. Play with your calipers or measuring device a little bit, you'll see what I mean. It is the exact same measurement, and like I said, eliminates the "is that dead center" guess work. But you do need to measure it like a straight line between the two holes.

Groups like that sound pretty sweet to me, I'd be moving out to a longer range if I was getting those results.

 

[Walkalong]

Better yet, measure same edge to same edge through the line that would connect the two holes like dot to dot.

If you are shooting little tiny groups you will not be able to do that since the inner portion of your bullet holes will not be there. Edge to edge is the only thing that works for tight groups.

Then there is when one is hanging out of the group. :banghead:

 

[Grumulkin]

Judging from your other posts, is that the encore TC? I'd expect them to shoot no better than what you're seeing. The encore is like any other single shot, the lock-up between the barrel and the reciever can vary from shot to shot, you will see two distinct groups with it.

I believe what he is saying is that he gets about 2 inch groups. The gun should be capable of no less than 1.5 inch 100 yard 3 shot groups and, will probably do 0.75 to 1 inch groups with the proper loads. The above 3 shot 1.5 inch group was shot by yours truely at 200 yards with an Encore handgun with a factory 15 inch muzzle braked barrel chambered in 460 S&W Magnum.

 

[goindeep]

Yes, I was workign with a load and trying to get it right...i could put two shots together and it would sling the other two in a 4 shot group...switched powders today to RL-15 and shot a 3 hole touching group out of 4 shots with only 1 out away from the rest...I think I must have done something a smidge different with that one round when I loaded it...we shall see. Thanks for all the help.