If you happen to legally carry (concealed or open) do you like to be informed that you're being watched? Do you like to be questioned by ordinary citizens about your legal actions? Would you like to have the cops called on you even though you didn't do anything wrong?
Guess What I Found In The Alley
- Thread starter slow944
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Im283
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whoa, pretty hard on the OP for the most part.
Seems to me the guy knows everyone in the neighborhood. It was at a time of day no one would normally be in the alley. Fairly recent criminal activity involving the OPs possessions.
I think questiong the 'utes was a good idea. At least they know someone is watching.
Calling the cops informs them of suspicious activity.
I was fine with it all unil I saw mention of HOA (home owners association?) I would move before living there
Seems to me the guy knows everyone in the neighborhood. It was at a time of day no one would normally be in the alley. Fairly recent criminal activity involving the OPs possessions.
I think questiong the 'utes was a good idea. At least they know someone is watching.
Calling the cops informs them of suspicious activity.
I was fine with it all unil I saw mention of HOA (home owners association?) I would move before living there
Its a legitimate thing to be suspicious when you see people who are out of place in an area.
You can call it racial profiling, but most crime is committed by young, minority males, so if you see young, minority males in a place you would not normally see them, it is both reasonable and natural to be suspicious of them.
I suppose its possible they were up to no good, but most likely they just decided to go into the alley because it looked like a nice place to go for a walk in the dead of night. Is there some kind of tourist attraction in this alley they might have been there to visit at that hour? Perhaps they heard that the image of the Virgin Mary was to be found on one of the dumpsters and merely came there to pray.
You can call it racial profiling, but most crime is committed by young, minority males, so if you see young, minority males in a place you would not normally see them, it is both reasonable and natural to be suspicious of them.
I suppose its possible they were up to no good, but most likely they just decided to go into the alley because it looked like a nice place to go for a walk in the dead of night. Is there some kind of tourist attraction in this alley they might have been there to visit at that hour? Perhaps they heard that the image of the Virgin Mary was to be found on one of the dumpsters and merely came there to pray.
Does the HOA own the alley? If so, a No Trespassing sign needs to be put up and the next time you see someone there who does not belong, get the cops there to bust them and haul them off to jail.
I am not a big fan of HOA's but this is one area where they can be useful. Cops can't do anything about miscreants hanging out in public alleys, but if it is not public, off to jail they go.
Soo... two hispanics walk by your house, you ask them (when they have no obligation to answer) what they're doing, and they mumble they are taking a shortcut (in a public right of way, mind you) on their way home.
So lets arm ourselves, confront them and call 911!
I didn't bother reading everything in the forum, I know this has been stated a few times already.
So lets arm ourselves, confront them and call 911!
I didn't bother reading everything in the forum, I know this has been stated a few times already.
elChupacabra!
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I'm callin shenanigans on this one RIGHT HERE - take our neighborhoods back from the BG's? You've got to be kidding me! God I sure am glad you're not MY neighbor, lest you decide I'M a "BG" and take YOUR neighborhood back from ME! Of course I look like you, so you probably wouldn't be so worried about me. You obviously know a "BG" when you see one.
What you MEANT to say was
"It's high time our neighborhoods are taken back from the Hispanics!"
There, I fixed it for you.
230RN
2A was "political" when it was first adopted.
If I had a nickel for every alley my buds and I walked through when I was a kid...
You say "Hello," you make sure they see you looking them up and down, you smile without showing your teeth.
You go back in after they've passed (they'll be sure to look back at you), and you tell your daughter to be a little extra careful for a while.
That's it.
You say "Hello," you make sure they see you looking them up and down, you smile without showing your teeth.
You go back in after they've passed (they'll be sure to look back at you), and you tell your daughter to be a little extra careful for a while.
That's it.
Neocode
Member
Geez, overly sensitive on the racism part. In describing them as Hispanic, I don't see that as racism. Had he used slang, or a derogatory term, different story.
Area that I live in has lots of different people. It's an apartment complex, and we have young, old, black, white, etc.
I still know suspicious behavior when I see it. Such as 20 or 30 younger adults/late teens in the pool area, without recognizing a single one. Or maybe 10 guys hanging out in the parking lot at night.
Or people parking outside the gates, and walking into the complex. Could all these people be minding their own business? Sure. Could their actions be misinterpreted? Sure. Do I quiz them on their actions? No. That's where I disagree with the OP, but I do pay more attention.
It's served me well, most of the time. In fact, in the instance of the 20 - 30 youths in the pool area, it stopped a possible rape. By possible, I mean two drunk guys pretty much exposing themselves and assaulting a drunk young lady. But when she noticed my wife watching she asked her for help. We kept her company until her ride arrived, and that was all that was needed.
I WAS armed however, just in case. Never said a word to the two guys, but they pretty much made themselves scarce after the girl approached my wife.
Area that I live in has lots of different people. It's an apartment complex, and we have young, old, black, white, etc.
I still know suspicious behavior when I see it. Such as 20 or 30 younger adults/late teens in the pool area, without recognizing a single one. Or maybe 10 guys hanging out in the parking lot at night.
Or people parking outside the gates, and walking into the complex. Could all these people be minding their own business? Sure. Could their actions be misinterpreted? Sure. Do I quiz them on their actions? No. That's where I disagree with the OP, but I do pay more attention.
It's served me well, most of the time. In fact, in the instance of the 20 - 30 youths in the pool area, it stopped a possible rape. By possible, I mean two drunk guys pretty much exposing themselves and assaulting a drunk young lady. But when she noticed my wife watching she asked her for help. We kept her company until her ride arrived, and that was all that was needed.
I WAS armed however, just in case. Never said a word to the two guys, but they pretty much made themselves scarce after the girl approached my wife.
elChupacabra!
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Describing any human being as a What rather than a Who is, to me, derogatory, and deeply indicative of ones beliefs about the person.
In the case of the subjects being described, we are only given that they are "hispanic youths." Apparrently, this is enough to reduce you from a "who" to a "what."
If that isn't racism, I don't know what is.
slow944
Member
Sorry Guys and Gals I didn't explain myself very well. The 2 young men were walking right up next to the fences about 15ft apart, not like you'd walk down an alley with your bud's. Also in dallas there is an ordinance that states alleys are not public property as the homeowners on each side are responsible for the upkeep and not to be used as a shortcut/cut thru. And NO I AM NOT A RACIST. My stepfather was a De La Garza, and he treated me like his own son. But there was just something not right with the 2 guys last night.
Neocode
Member
elChupacabra! said:
So if he said, "Guess what I found in the alley? Two white guys etc...." would you have assumed he was not-white by his speech? How do you even KNOW he's white? How do you know he's not Hispanic, or black?
It seems to me, you're looking for reasons to be offended.
JoseM
Member
You got me all excited...thought you found a firearm of some sort in the alley...of course I 'd have turned it in...but still would have been a better story.
Being Hispanic?
I live in a very small neighborhood, and when I encounter someone I don't recognize, I usually wave, and greet them in a friendly manner.
That avoids all the testosterone crap of "What are you doing here?" I have certainly been in situations where the appropriate response to "What are you doing here?" - particularly when asked of a person of another race - was two word phrase that begins with "f" and ends with "u". Either that, or a sarcastic, "What does it look like I'm doing here, [insert slur of your choice]?"
A friendly wave, with eye contact and a greeting conveys the same information as the confrontation:
- I have noticed you.
- I can describe you later if I need to.
The advantage of the "greet and nod" is that there's not even a hint of confrontation. I find that a "Good evening, how are you doing?" and a nod works just fine. Some people chat, some people move on pretty quickly, and some people ask for direction.
A confrontation is by its nature provocative. A confrontation may be needed, but should not be sought just because you have a weapon in your pocket.
This is for both ethical and legal reasons.
If those guys had taken offense to being aggressively questioned about walking in a public thoroughfare, things could have escalated verbally very quickly - especially if you are concerned about the safety of your daughter. Once things escalate verbally, the whole situation gets more complicated if you end up needing to shoot someone.
Ayoob's "In Gravest Extreme" has a discussion of precisely this point that made quite a bit of sense when I read the book some time ago. If I recall his point correctly, it's wise to avoid a verbal confrontation of any kind while you are carrying. I may be miss-remembering, but I think he advised being even more polite and non-confrontational when carrying.
It seems like a simple, "Hello, how you doing" would have accomplished everything "What are you doing here" accomplished - with no risk of escalation.
Mike
WayneConrad
Member
The problem with saying "Hispanic" is that it introduces needless information and leaves out important information.
Is Hispanic normal for that neighborhood, or not? Do your kids have Hispanic friends? Are there Hispanic neighbors? Without context--the vital information that has been left out--it is useless information. That is why it seems odd to me, and I think to others, that race was mentioned.
I might guess that the missing context was, "Two people that looked out of place for my neighborhood..."
Is Hispanic normal for that neighborhood, or not? Do your kids have Hispanic friends? Are there Hispanic neighbors? Without context--the vital information that has been left out--it is useless information. That is why it seems odd to me, and I think to others, that race was mentioned.
I might guess that the missing context was, "Two people that looked out of place for my neighborhood..."
Corporal K
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PHP:
The fact remains, if they weren't doing anything wrong mind your own da^%ed business.If I don't like the looks of them, I'm making it my business.
How ya like me now?
cambeul41
Member
I am primarily white with, perhaps, the obligatory touch of Cherokee. My students are almost all Black. If I tell a comparable story without mentioning race, they ask.
"What difference does that matter?" I ask in return.
"It doesn't matter, but it helps us visualize what you are telling us," they respond.
Is filling in the visual details necessarily racism?
Probably "Damned if I do, damned if I don't"
"What difference does that matter?" I ask in return.
"It doesn't matter, but it helps us visualize what you are telling us," they respond.
Is filling in the visual details necessarily racism?
Probably "Damned if I do, damned if I don't"
This one started out barely on topic, and has degenerated from there.
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