Hello, everyone I have a Bravo Company mid length upper and wanted to know what options I had for mounting a light right now I have plastic hand guards. I went to a local shop and they told me I had to buy a 250.00 FF rail for it because it is a longer hand guard, do I really need a FF rail just to mount a light?
Guidance needed AR hand guard
- Thread starter Miss Debbie
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No, short picatinny rails can be added to the plastic handguards. It's a smart and economical solution and saves weight unless you get super lightweight and expensive railed handguards. I'll look around and see if I can find a link.
Ah, look at the solutions in the 3rd and 4th posts in this thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=523821
If you have a bayonet lug then look at post #2 also.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=523821
If you have a bayonet lug then look at post #2 also.
I assume you have the normal round/oval guards? I'm not much on rails, but you might check out this thread-I was looking for the polymer/aluminum rails I'm seeing pop up for round handguards. Got a Grip Pod (more for the bipod than the VFG) and wanted to mount using polymer rail add-ons.
Don't know what kind of light you're going to mount-I went the Streamlight TLR-2s route with a bayonet lug adapter.
I've seen mounts similar to the bayonet lug adapter for conventional tactical lights (round, Maglite style) and some that mount to the front sight, but can't steer you in the right direction-don't know what search terms you'd use in both THRs for pics of 'em, but I've seen a few.
Don't know what kind of light you're going to mount-I went the Streamlight TLR-2s route with a bayonet lug adapter.
I've seen mounts similar to the bayonet lug adapter for conventional tactical lights (round, Maglite style) and some that mount to the front sight, but can't steer you in the right direction-don't know what search terms you'd use in both THRs for pics of 'em, but I've seen a few.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
You can also do something like this:
That's a very inexpensive Command Arms Accessories (CAA) polymer rail setup that bolts through the front sight tower (literally a 2-minute installation):
http://www.botachtactical.com/caam4frsimod.html
The light itself wears a GG&G flashlight ring to allow it to mount to the rail:
http://www.botachtactical.com/gg1mori.html
Mounting on the side of the front sight puts the light in a good place; the barrel shadow is low and to the side, instead of being right where you need light the most, and it is easy to press the momentary-on tailcap switch with the thumb of the support hand if you use a thumb-over-the-top grip.
The light in the first photo is a Surefire G3 LED (3-cell), but a lot of people run a G2 LED (2-cell) instead because it's shorter and lighter. Either way, it's a nice setup that requires very little modification to the rifle.
That's a very inexpensive Command Arms Accessories (CAA) polymer rail setup that bolts through the front sight tower (literally a 2-minute installation):
http://www.botachtactical.com/caam4frsimod.html
The light itself wears a GG&G flashlight ring to allow it to mount to the rail:
http://www.botachtactical.com/gg1mori.html
Mounting on the side of the front sight puts the light in a good place; the barrel shadow is low and to the side, instead of being right where you need light the most, and it is easy to press the momentary-on tailcap switch with the thumb of the support hand if you use a thumb-over-the-top grip.
The light in the first photo is a Surefire G3 LED (3-cell), but a lot of people run a G2 LED (2-cell) instead because it's shorter and lighter. Either way, it's a nice setup that requires very little modification to the rifle.
If you want a railed forend but don't need Free Float, the Troy MRF-DI rails are solid. I have a set in CAR length and I can't say enough good things about them.
Troy MRF-DI Midlength here.
Troy MRF-DI Midlength here.
Like others have said - there are many different options you can go. It really depends on what type of light and where you want to mount it...
You certainly do not need to buy a FF Hand Guard. They make a 100 quality rails that snap in to place just like your hand guards. Midwest Industries, Yankee Hill etc etc. They can be had for anywhere in the $100 on up range. Chepaer if you look around and find a used one for sale.....
If your settled on sticking with regular handguards you can certainly use many of the alternate mounts for the FSB or Bay Lug. You can also drill and mount a rail section anywhere on the hand guard...
You can also spend a little money and buy a set of the MOE handgaurds from Magpul. They offer a few extra spots to mount rail sections for lights and if I may say - the handguards are QUALITY! My dad has a set and after utilizing them for a short range session - I am tempted to make a another build just so I can buy some for myself....
I prefer the 12 O'Clock spot for a light and was running standard handguards for quite a long time. I also prefer a TLR type light so this was my solution:
I have since gone to a YH FF Tube. I sold both my Home Made mounts to other gunners and they are being used with great results...
But as you see - there are many types of mounts to solve this issue. First you need to decide where you prefer your light to be (10, 11, 12, 1, 6 O'Clock) then you after deciding which type of light you want to run - you can decide on the best mounting application for you....
You certainly do not need to buy a FF Hand Guard. They make a 100 quality rails that snap in to place just like your hand guards. Midwest Industries, Yankee Hill etc etc. They can be had for anywhere in the $100 on up range. Chepaer if you look around and find a used one for sale.....
If your settled on sticking with regular handguards you can certainly use many of the alternate mounts for the FSB or Bay Lug. You can also drill and mount a rail section anywhere on the hand guard...
You can also spend a little money and buy a set of the MOE handgaurds from Magpul. They offer a few extra spots to mount rail sections for lights and if I may say - the handguards are QUALITY! My dad has a set and after utilizing them for a short range session - I am tempted to make a another build just so I can buy some for myself....
I prefer the 12 O'Clock spot for a light and was running standard handguards for quite a long time. I also prefer a TLR type light so this was my solution:
I have since gone to a YH FF Tube. I sold both my Home Made mounts to other gunners and they are being used with great results...
But as you see - there are many types of mounts to solve this issue. First you need to decide where you prefer your light to be (10, 11, 12, 1, 6 O'Clock) then you after deciding which type of light you want to run - you can decide on the best mounting application for you....
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If you do want a new set of hanguards, I've got the Magpul MOE's on mine. I love them, and you can get short sections of rail to "bolt" onto the sides. I've got a sling attach point on mine now, but you could easily use it for a light, etc.
Edit: Nevermind; I fail at reading comprehension. You said you have a middy. They don't make the MOE in mid-length.
Edit: Nevermind; I fail at reading comprehension. You said you have a middy. They don't make the MOE in mid-length.
You might try this:
http://www.elzetta.com/Webpages/zss1500.htm
The reviews are very good.
Blubacon50
http://www.elzetta.com/Webpages/zss1500.htm
The reviews are very good.
Blubacon50
They will be out soon, as well as Rifle length.....
http://riflegear.com/showproduct.aspx?ProductID=693&SEName=magpul-moe-hand-guards-midlength
Magpul also makes a rail kit called the Illumination, and Falcon offers short rails, too.
As the gun dealer noted, $250 is the going rate for a quad rail setup - and it's just a light and scope mount base. Some claim the free floats are necessary to eliminate barrel shift with a sling, but that issue has it's own cures, and the MOA improvement at CQB ranges is arguable at best. Add in the increased weight of quad rails, ladder covers, and the lack of camo choices, you get less than an optimum solution for an individual shooter buying on their nickel. $250 for a quad rail vs. a $25 rail kit leaves a lot of budget for something to actually attach to the rail. It highlights that quad rails are an institutional solution to the problem of accommodating different service and operator needs under the DOD umbrella. They still aren't a universal application, M16A2's and A4's are in the inventory and being used. They continue the use of a non railed handguard.
The latest competitors in the Improved Carbine race are showing up with substantially reduced rails, with a quad conversion as an option, not the base model. That can offer the Army wiggle room on a higher contract price as the base model won't be equipped with them, as is the case with the M4. That alone could give $300 (the price of the issue KAC rail) to ease negotiation of a contract, and reduces the unneeded fielding of rails to units who have no requirements. Added to that is the continuous downsizing of equipment mounted on the rail - more efficient batteries, lights, and system improvements have already obsoleted the need for a quad rail system.
Quad rails will eventually be a retro Iraq/Afghan conflict style for history buffs.
As the gun dealer noted, $250 is the going rate for a quad rail setup - and it's just a light and scope mount base. Some claim the free floats are necessary to eliminate barrel shift with a sling, but that issue has it's own cures, and the MOA improvement at CQB ranges is arguable at best. Add in the increased weight of quad rails, ladder covers, and the lack of camo choices, you get less than an optimum solution for an individual shooter buying on their nickel. $250 for a quad rail vs. a $25 rail kit leaves a lot of budget for something to actually attach to the rail. It highlights that quad rails are an institutional solution to the problem of accommodating different service and operator needs under the DOD umbrella. They still aren't a universal application, M16A2's and A4's are in the inventory and being used. They continue the use of a non railed handguard.
The latest competitors in the Improved Carbine race are showing up with substantially reduced rails, with a quad conversion as an option, not the base model. That can offer the Army wiggle room on a higher contract price as the base model won't be equipped with them, as is the case with the M4. That alone could give $300 (the price of the issue KAC rail) to ease negotiation of a contract, and reduces the unneeded fielding of rails to units who have no requirements. Added to that is the continuous downsizing of equipment mounted on the rail - more efficient batteries, lights, and system improvements have already obsoleted the need for a quad rail system.
Quad rails will eventually be a retro Iraq/Afghan conflict style for history buffs.
Halfacop,
I like your setup. What rail is that one. I skimmed you post and didn't see what one it is.
Thanks
I like your setup. What rail is that one. I skimmed you post and didn't see what one it is.
Thanks
Thanks for those excellent comments Tirod! Many of my buddies keep after me asking when am I "gonna" replace my middy's handguards with rails. It gets old having people look down on your equipment but I have little use for quad rails. The solutions here are more than satifactory for mounting a light.
If your asking what I made the rail piece out of for my light it was made off a Yankee Hill two piece Gas block:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=46893/pid=21445/sku/2_Rail_Gas_Block
Two cuts on a band saw and you have two light mounts...
I know MACO makes a version, as well as another company, but I was not impressed with the quality. Plus making my own produced two instead of one....LOL
Sorry about the quality of PICS. These last couple were taken with my old cell phone when I first made the mount. I can attest to the ruggedness to this mount and system. I ran it on my primary rifle for quite sometime and never had an issue with it. Like I said - I shipped both mounts off to a couple other Operators and they are running them without issue.
I have always prefered the 12 O'Clock spot for a light and the TLR Style lights are perfect. One of the operators, I gave a mount to, runs a TLR-3 on it. Even with the laser he still has clearance to see his front site when using Irons....
A low profile Surefire X200 would be the cats ass on this type of system and give you a ton of clearance up top.....
Here's a couple other pics of it on my carbine beofre I switched over to a FF Tube:
I eventually went to this and couldn't be happier:
The YH FF Tube only ran me $122.00 (LEO PRICE). I think its like $170 regular. The only thing I have not yet gotten is a sling mount but thats in the works.
So to get back on topic here with the OP's question - you can see from the last few posts that there are a ton of options and none of them need to include buying a $250 FF rail....
So depending on whether the OP has Midget Digits or short arms this may or may not be an option. They could also use this type of set up with a Pressure Pad (which wouldn't be all that bad actually).......
Half
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Thanks for all the replys when are the Magpul MOE mid-lenght hand guards supposed to be available?
They are suppose to out this Summer.....
MAGPUL takes their time in releasing items to make sure they are as perfect as they can be. I do not suspect a huge wait on these as we did the Carbine Guards though since they got most the bugs worked out on the carbine models....
MAGPUL takes their time in releasing items to make sure they are as perfect as they can be. I do not suspect a huge wait on these as we did the Carbine Guards though since they got most the bugs worked out on the carbine models....
IIRC a thread on the SHOT show with pics showed a list of product releases. The Mid and Rifle were labeled August. Magpul doesn't discuss it ahead of time because some on the internet stir up a lot of discontent due to their complete ignorance of product testing and development. They think that if the prototype can be shown in January the warehouses must be full of them ready to ship. What they can't possibly know is whether the market as a whole even wants the product, whether it interfaces with other products, including some friendly competitor's, and that the world doesn't revolve around them or their credit card.
There is just a lot less hassle not discussing it until it's ready to happen.
There is just a lot less hassle not discussing it until it's ready to happen.
This is interesting......
Can you elaborate further on this? I for one have rarely seen a problem with anything they turn out. Their gear is not the end all of every problem but it address's alot of concerns that other gear does not...
They do plenty of testing of their equipment before releasing, so I am wondering where you feel they are lacking?
Halfacop, he is referring to people ion the internet having no understanding of development and testing, not magpul.
Right - for some reason the way I read it , it seemed it was twisted. After rereading it I see now how it was meant....
Guess I should have slept longer today....LOL
Oops, my bad. It does look like that. No way am I trying to trash Magpul.
Just sniping at the dress it up range warriors whose actual work experience is limited to shopping in the Mall. One in a hundred have served in the military now, and about the same in a real production environment. I've done both, there is a real disconnect from reality going on with consumers in some areas. It's like they don't know where their burgers actually come from. :banghead:
Just sniping at the dress it up range warriors whose actual work experience is limited to shopping in the Mall. One in a hundred have served in the military now, and about the same in a real production environment. I've done both, there is a real disconnect from reality going on with consumers in some areas. It's like they don't know where their burgers actually come from. :banghead:
halfacop: Why the KX3 on a 16" carbine? I mean, it can't be beneficial in any way and just adds length and weight.
Total Length is a touch over 16. So there is really no added length. The original barrel length was roughly 13 inches when I got that particular barrel. So this was a perfect choice to fix the reliability issues I was having with it....
The KX3 excels at protecting personnel from side blast during close in shooting and does a real decent job on reducing muzzle flash. I spend a ton of range time with my fellow LEO and a couple of us have them on our carbines. It’s awesome to be shooting next to them due to the near zero concussion when shooting close quarters....
My intentions are after I move south here in a few weeks is to SBR the carbine, so of course at that point it will really serve its purpose well.....
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