Gun+ammo incompatibility?

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ojh

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Can there really be an incompatibility this bad between a certain wheelgun, and a certain brand of ammunion?

Some six months ago, I bought a used Colt King Cobra (stainless, 6" tube), my first revolver. I've been shooting mosty 38 Specials with it, with satisfying accuracy, and shot 357 Magnum ammo only occasionally. Have had no clear idea of what the gun's capabilities with full-power ammo are. Then a gunstore nearby offered Fiocchi's 158 grain SJSP Magnums for almost half the normal prize. The salesman told that they are high-quality ammo, which I believed - isn't Fiocchi a "name" brand? So I bought a test box, luckily only one, as you will see.

Next time at the club range I started with Sellier&Bellot 158 gr FMJ Magnums. Distance was 25 meters, using two-handed isoceles stance. Three-shot grups were about 5 to 8 inches, which is typical for me shooting 357s, since I am not accustomed to these boomers. Then I switched to Fiocchi, with high expectations. Imagine my surprise, when one or two shots of the three-shot strings ENTIRELY MISSED THE 2 x 2 FEET TARGET! Switched back to S&B - normal 5" groups. Conclusion: somethig is wrong. :confused:

A few days later I was again at the club range, now with the intention to do a more detailed study. In addition to my own gun, I rented three of the club's 357 wheelguns; a S&W 686, a Rossi, and an another King Cobra. These also have 6" tubes, and they all look quite beaten-up, but are functionally OK. I took the handgun shooting rest, and started firing the Fiocchis with all four guns. The result: ALL club guns could shoot about 2" three-shot groups with Fiocchi. MY gun shot 4" to 7" groups, when all shots hit the target: on more than one occasion, one shot of a three-shot string missed the target entirely. Then I shot some Sellier-Bellot FMJs with my gun: groups were 2 to 2½ inches. Conclusion: something is SERIOUSLY wrong with the combination my gun + the Fiocchis. :(

Of course all this made me a bit nervous: is my gun flawed in some way? Would it perform so badly with still some other ammo? Doing a quick hunt in nearby stores, could add only Sellier&Bellot SJSPs and Magtech SJHPs to the test, both are again 158 grainers. Went to the range third time, and tested these, using the rest, with my and the club's KCs. The result: consistent 2½ in groups with both guns, both ammo. So nothing wrong here. Phew.

But the question remains: how on earth can the same ammo perform so differently in different guns, and especially in two revolvers of same make and model? Of course the two King Cobras here are not exactly similar: my gun has apparently not been shot very much, and I keep it reasonably clean. Club's KC has fired maybe more than 100 000 rounds, its cylinder lockup and crane feel a bit looser than my gun, and its bore was, politely said, filthy. Still it shot well with all the ammo I tested, including the Fiocchi, which my gun hated.

About the only significant difference I can imagine that might have something to do with the Fiocchi's dramatich loss of accuracy in my gun is that Fiocchi is a hot round (nominal v0=1500 fps), and my King Cobra appararently has smaller flash gap than the others. All the club guns gave a big sideblast, while my gun 's blast was much smaller. I didn't try to measure the others, but I can't stuff a 0.004" paper between the cylinder and the forcing cone of my gun.

So could it be that my gun spits the Fiocchi bullets out too fast, so that they become unstable? OTOH, I did not notice any signicant keyholing for even the hits that were all over the target. Or what the **** is going on here? :what: My gun appears to be in good condition, as far as I can tell: the bore looks perfect, muzzle crown is OK by naked eye, timing is good. Can this be only incompatibility? I surely hope so, but can similar problems be expected also with some other hot and fast ammo?
 
Revolvers can have their own "ammo preference". Two guns of the same make, model and barrel length, can even vary more than 100 fps with ammo from the same box. One will shoot "puppy print" groups and the other will shoot a pattern. .22s are notorious for this, but it applies all the way up the caliber scale. Find one that it likes, and stay with it, or, get a whole new hobby and learn handloading.
 
Ya, it can get pretty weird, although this IS an extreme case.

It seems possible it's connected to the twist rate...causing the particular bullet to not "hook up" with the rifling, God knows what else?

Oh ya, another thing: you might try "slugging the barrel" - cram a slightly oversize dead-soft lead ball down the tube and measure it with a micrometer. Then measure the cylinder throats ("constrictions") with an inside micrometer. That'll tell you what the optimum bullet width is for that gun (.355/.356/.357/.358) and may tell you that the cylinder throats are a bit off-spec.
 
You said you were shooting mostly 38's. Have you cleaned your gun REAL good to get all the lead and powder fowling out of it?
It does make a difference.
 
...how on earth can the same ammo perform so differently in different guns, and especially in two revolvers of same make and model?

Only two of my Pythons have the same preference in target ammunition. The difference between lowest and highest is .3 grains. You wouldn't think three tenths of a seven thousandth of a pound would make much difference, but it can and often does.

Mixing .38 special and .357 magnum rounds in a revolver can lead to problems as J Miller described above.
 
I think the first thing to do is to really clean the chambers so they are completely free of any bullet lube or leading from shooting the .38's. Use a Lewis lead remover if you can find one.

What I am thinking is that lead deposits at the front of the chambers are keeping the .357's from opening out completely at the crimp. The Fiocchi cases also might be a bit longer than some of the others. If that happens, the bullet comes out misshapen from squeezing through the narrow opening, and will be inaccurate.

If the problem persists, get hold of some good measuring instruments and do a comparison between the Fiocchi ammo and known good ammo, and also between the two K.C.'s. Check not only chamber throat diameter, but also chamber length (for the same reason as above). You can also check barrel diameter, but I don't think that is the problem.

Jim
 
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