7.62x25 ammo

[barnetmill]

To each their own. I don't see the statements from Reed's as significantly divergent from statements made by some other boutique ammunition manufacturers.
.........

If that is a comfort to you, I hope it all turns out well.
There a fellow at my club that was shooting a tok with his handloads using 7.62x25 with 110 bullets, but I do not know what velocities he was getting. A couple of the other members were concerned. He never blew up or damaged his gun. But really it is just not a good idea. 71 grains bullets for the .32 ACP are the right diameter, are cheap, and safe with any load intended for the 85 grain bullets. .

 

[Dain Bramage]

For reloading, Hornady still lists a 90gr .309 XTP that shoots great in my 7.62x25mm guns. They used to make an 86gr .308 SP, but I don't see it listed anymore. I still have a few hundred of them. They shoot fine in my Chinese Tokarev, but deform and jam on the ramp of my CZ52.

 

[Snowdog]

orrect me if I am wrong here that there are no premium ~85 grain bullets suitable for an autoloading 7.62x25. Those for the .32 revolvers likely will give feeding problems

A few years ago, I played around with the 7.62x25 and found a recipe using (IIRC) 85gr Sierra Match King JSPs. I bought some, loaded them with the powder and grains suggested and the results were pretty good. They fed like FMJ but expansion was positive. The nice thing about zippy rounds like the 7.62x25 is a JHP isn't necessary for expansion; JSP will do and they're pretty much barrier blind.

After several blocks of Play-do

 

[Mr. Zorg]

If that is a comfort to you, I hope it all turns out well.
There a fellow at my club that was shooting a tok with his handloads using 7.62x25 with 110 bullets, but I do not know what velocities he was getting. A couple of the other members were concerned. He never blew up or damaged his gun. But really it is just not a good idea. 71 grains bullets for the .32 ACP are the right diameter, are cheap, and safe with any load intended for the 85 grain bullets. .

It certainly has so far, and I see no reason for that not to continue. Have you ever purchased ammunition from Buffalo Bore, Doubletap, or Underwood, or European manufacturer Norma? I'm not talking about anything labeled +P+, I'm talking about SAAMI and / or CIP compliant ammunition.

If not, let me spell it out for you. I see you like bold font.

TO EACH THEIR OWN

I'm open to review any concrete specific areas of technical concern you have about SAAMI & CIP limits.

These companies have supplied their target markets for quite some time.

In specific cases, such as .45/70 ammo, some come with specific warnings for the purchaser NOT to use in lever action guns.

Example from Buffalo Bore

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=234

Example from Reed's

https://shop.reedsammo.com/45-70-440g-Hard-Cast-Gas-Checked-Wide-Flat-Nose-4570440HCGC.htm

So if it's OK for me, or the OP, or any other such purchaser, there's no reason I see to demonize it.

Obviously YMMV

OTOH, here's what happened to me at round #43 of a 50 round box of PPU 9MM "NATO"a few years ago at a local indoor range. The ammunition was purchased by mail order. Fortunately I was using a tough (now proven tough) all metal Astra A-100 at the time.

PPU requested I ship the remaining such ammo from my order and the box with manufacturers' code to their US address via prepaid UPS label and allowed me double retail value replacement ammunition shipped directly from PPU's US address from a list of what they had in inventory in that warehouse at that time. I did not request any more PPU 9mm "NATO" or any other PPU or Monarch brand 9mm Luger ammunition and I have not purchased any PPU 9mm "NATO" or any other PPU or Monarch brand 9mm Luger since then. I'm confident other people have, so TO EACH THEIR OWN.



PPU has never responded to my inquiry about their investigation findings regarding this and I don't believe they ever will.

However, I'm not compelled to harangue anyone using PPU ammunition including those on this thread mentioning PPU & Wolf brand 7.62X25mm ammunition (to bring the thread back to the OP's topic). And that's with first hand experience with PPU ammunition.

Reed's, Buffalo Bore, Underwood, and even PPU are held to different regulatory standards to (legally) sell ammunition in the USA vs a handloader assembling and firing their own loads FWIW. That doesn't appear to factor into your posted concerns, so noted.

My EDC ammo is 9X19mm Winchester 147 grain Ranger T-Series, although 147 grain in general and JHP specifically wasn't original issue ammunition for the 9X19mm P08 Luger, "Red 9" Mauser C96, etc. Others choose differently.

The PPU "NATO" cartridge I had a less than desirable experience with was loaded with a 124 grain projectile, what I've found on history indicates the original 9X19mm ammunition was loaded with a 124 grain projectile. Ammoland says that original 9X19mm ammunition loaded with 124 grain projectiles was loaded to 1200fps. I haven't found data to indicate this is in error. No barrel length is given for that figure though.

https://www.ammoland.com/2016/07/9mm-parabellum-ammo-history/

Another source says 1099 fps with 4" barrel and 1420 fps with carbine (artillery Luger style with shoulder stock?) in 1914.

https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/german-9mm-ballistics/6977/5

Harrington Products lists performance and warnings against use in other guns for Czech issue ammunition manufactured for use in the CZ-52 pistol, but it doesn't appear to have been loaded with 110 grain or JHP projectiles.

https://harringtonproducts.com/7.62x25mm/

Here's what I found for the CIP specifications for 7.62X25mm. There are pressure specifications but I don't see any projectile mass specifications.

http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/uploads/tdcc/tab-iv/tabivcal-en-page9.pdf

This site says there's no SAAMI specifications for the 7.62X25mm cartridge FWIW.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...2017/02/27/cip-european-equivalent-saami/amp/

That would eliminate chances for someone crossing up such pressures determined by SAAMI methodology vs pressures determined by CIP methodology anyway.

 

[barnetmill]

It certainly has so far, and I see no reason for that not to continue. Have you ever purchased ammunition from Buffalo Bore, Doubletap, or Underwood, or European manufacturer Norma? I'm not talking about anything labeled +P+, I'm talking about SAAMI and / or CIP compliant ammunition.

If not, let me spell it out for you. I see you like bold font.

TO EACH THEIR OWN

I'm open to review any concrete specific areas of technical concern you have about SAAMI & CIP limits.

These companies have supplied their target markets for quite some time.

In specific cases, such as .45/70 ammo, some come with specific warnings for the purchaser NOT to use in lever action guns.

Example from Buffalo Bore

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=234

Example from Reed's

https://shop.reedsammo.com/45-70-440g-Hard-Cast-Gas-Checked-Wide-Flat-Nose-4570440HCGC.htm

So if it's OK for me, or the OP, or any other such purchaser, there's no reason I see to demonize it.

Obviously YMMV

OTOH, here's what happened to me at round #43 of a 50 round box of PPU 9MM "NATO"a few years ago at a local indoor range. The ammunition was purchased by mail order. Fortunately I was using a tough (now proven tough) all metal Astra A-100 at the time.

PPU requested I ship the remaining such ammo from my order and the box with manufacturers' code to their US address via prepaid UPS label and allowed me double retail value replacement ammunition shipped directly from PPU's US address from a list of what they had in inventory in that warehouse at that time. I did not request any more PPU 9mm "NATO" or any other PPU or Monarch brand 9mm Luger ammunition and I have not purchased any PPU 9mm "NATO" or any other PPU or Monarch brand 9mm Luger since then. I'm confident other people have, so TO EACH THEIR OWN.

View attachment 925985 View attachment 925986 View attachment 925987 View attachment 925988 View attachment 925989 View attachment 925990

PPU has never responded to my inquiry about their investigation findings regarding this and I don't believe they ever will.

However, I'm not compelled to harangue anyone using PPU ammunition including those on this thread mentioning PPU & Wolf brand 7.62X25mm ammunition (to bring the thread back to the OP's topic). And that's with first hand experience with PPU ammunition.

Reed's, Buffalo Bore, Underwood, and even PPU are held to different regulatory standards to (legally) sell ammunition in the USA vs a handloader assembling and firing their own loads FWIW. That doesn't appear to factor into your posted concerns, so noted.

My EDC ammo is 9X19mm Winchester 147 grain Ranger T-Series, although 147 grain in general and JHP specifically wasn't original issue ammunition for the 9X19mm P08 Luger, "Red 9" Mauser C96, etc. Others choose differently.

The PPU "NATO" cartridge I had a less than desirable experience with was loaded with a 124 grain projectile, what I've found on history indicates the original 9X19mm ammunition was loaded with a 124 grain projectile. Ammoland says that original 9X19mm ammunition loaded with 124 grain projectiles was loaded to 1200fps. I haven't found data to indicate this is in error. No barrel length is given for that figure though.

https://www.ammoland.com/2016/07/9mm-parabellum-ammo-history/

Another source says 1099 fps with 4" barrel and 1420 fps with carbine (artillery Luger style with shoulder stock?) in 1914.

https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/german-9mm-ballistics/6977/5

Harrington Products lists performance and warnings against use in other guns for Czech issue ammunition manufactured for use in the CZ-52 pistol, but it doesn't appear to have been loaded with 110 grain or JHP projectiles.

https://harringtonproducts.com/7.62x25mm/

Here's what I found for the CIP specifications for 7.62X25mm. There are pressure specifications but I don't see any projectile mass specifications.

http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/uploads/tdcc/tab-iv/tabivcal-en-page9.pdf

This site says there's no SAAMI specifications for the 7.62X25mm cartridge FWIW.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...2017/02/27/cip-european-equivalent-saami/amp/

That would eliminate chances for someone crossing up such pressures determined by SAAMI methodology vs pressures determined by CIP methodology anyway.

I have never used any of the high pressure boutique ammunition offerings.
Relative to PPU, defective ammo due to poor QC is not what we are talking about.
The czech ammo you are talking about was most often issued in 8 round stripper clips for their issued submachine gun at the time was supposed to be very high pressure often was steel cored. It came with a special slot for holding the 8 round stripper clip to facilitate reloading of the magazine.


By the way the cz52 pistol is not a particularly durable design. I guess it is safe with the czech ammo. They did not stay in service a particularly long time. Things like firing pins break and there have questions about the drop safety on them. People have had problems with the rollers. I never really like the CZ52 and found the T33 to be a better pistol.
I saw the https://harringtonproducts.com/7.62x25mm/ . I am not sure as to just how correct they are.

Sticking 110 grain bullets deep into a case without any means to determine pressure is not a good idea. If you have a manual that list the pressures and specific components, then that is something else.
As you say your mileage may very and this is america.

 

[barnetmill]

Reed's, Buffalo Bore, Underwood, and even PPU are held to different regulatory standards to (legally) sell ammunition in the USA vs a handloader assembling and firing their own loads FWIW. That doesn't appear to factor into your posted concerns, so noted.

SAAMI are not regulatory standards, but industrial guidelines they might have teeth in civil court. The USA does not have governmental run proofing houses and firearms standards are not governed by any enforceable federal standards yet.
I do not use the above mentioned ammo. But I would use it sooner than i would reloads with 110 bullets stuck deep into a small capacity pistol case.

 

[Terry G]

I have never used any of the high pressure boutique ammunition offerings.
Relative to PPU, defective ammo due to poor QC is not what we are talking about.
The czech ammo you are talking about was most often issued in 8 round stripper clips for their issued submachine gun at the time was supposed to be very high pressure often was steel cored. It came with a special slot for holding the 8 round stripper clip to facilitate reloading of the magazine.
View attachment 926062
View attachment 926063
By the way the cz52 pistol is not a particularly durable design. I guess it is safe with the czech ammo. They did not stay in service a particularly long time. Things like firing pins break and there have questions about the drop safety on them. People have had problems with the rollers. I never really like the CZ52 and found the T33 to be a better pistol.
I saw the https://harringtonproducts.com/7.62x25mm/ . I am not sure as to just how correct they are.

Sticking 110 grain bullets deep into a case without any means to determine pressure is not a good idea. If you have a manual that list the pressures and specific components, then that is something else.
As you say your mileage may very and this is america.

I can confirm the drop safety problem. Shooting a CZ52 off the bench I dropped the safety and BANG! Not totally sure I hadn't touched the trigger first, I unloaded the gun and did a pencil test. The pencil jumped out of the barrel. I loaded one round in the chamber and dropped the safety. Again it fired. To the gunsmith who said he could fix it or he would give me a $200.00 store credit for it. I used it to buy a CZ 75 D Compact.

 

[barnetmill]

I can confirm the drop safety problem. Shooting a CZ52 off the bench I dropped the safety and BANG! Not totally sure I hadn't touched the trigger first, I unloaded the gun and did a pencil test. The pencil jumped out of the barrel. I loaded one round in the chamber and dropped the safety. Again it fired. To the gunsmith who said he could fix it or he would give me a $200.00 store credit for it. I used it to buy a CZ 75 D Compact.

The czechs when they became part of the soviet client states due to I think national ego decided to do things there own way using non-soviet designed arms. The cz52 assault rifle is apparently a good design. The CZ52 pistol and its super strength plus super loads was part of their claim to independence. The T33 while super simple, it was russian peasant compliant and was a hell of reliable pistol and not much to go wrong with. Same thing for the nagant revolver.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

I have never used any of the high pressure boutique ammunition offerings.
Relative to PPU, defective ammo due to poor QC is not what we are talking about.
The czech ammo you are talking about was most often issued in 8 round stripper clips for their issued submachine gun at the time was supposed to be very high pressure often was steel cored. It came with a special slot for holding the 8 round stripper clip to facilitate reloading of the magazine.
View attachment 926062
View attachment 926063
By the way the cz52 pistol is not a particularly durable design. I guess it is safe with the czech ammo. They did not stay in service a particularly long time. Things like firing pins break and there have questions about the drop safety on them. People have had problems with the rollers. I never really like the CZ52 and found the T33 to be a better pistol.
I saw the https://harringtonproducts.com/7.62x25mm/ . I am not sure as to just how correct they are.

Sticking 110 grain bullets deep into a case without any means to determine pressure is not a good idea. If you have a manual that list the pressures and specific components, then that is something else.
As you say your mileage may very and this is america.

Tell me exactly how you determined my experience with that PPU ammo is bad QC. Please detail it with precise explanation of what metric was missed.

You may not acknowledge this but I haven't been talking about high pressure ammunition at all, outside the one link to what Huntington showed, which is demonstrably not originally manufactured for the US retail market. As such, post up evidence any of the 7.62X25mm ammo from Reed's exceeds CIP specifications. As well as any evidence 7.62X25mm ammunition loaded with 110 grain projectiles must be cause for concern. Let's see it all.

As for pistol "strength" that's a pretty vague statement, no specifics.

You may find this thread interesting. I did, YMMV Someone who deliberately tested items to failure as a hobby.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/cz-52-vs-tt-33.22071/

 

[Mr. Zorg]

SAAMI are not regulatory standards, but industrial guidelines they might have teeth in civil court. The USA does not have governmental run proofing houses and firearms standards are not governed by any enforceable federal standards yet.
I do not use the above mentioned ammo. But I would use it sooner than i would reloads with 110 bullets stuck deep into a small capacity pistol case.

And so you're ignoring 7.62X25mm only has CIP specifications as I posted, even with a link. Why?

Tell us all about how CIP limits are reviewed and applied since CIP is what applies to 7.62X25mm cartridges.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Com...nte_pour_l’épreuve_des_armes_à_feu_portatives

The cartridges offered for sale by manufacturers such as Reed's, Buffalo Bore, Underwood etc. are subject to the same US regulations as any other entity offering ammunition for sale in the US. So why don't you have similar concerns about ammunition offered for sale in the US by non-boutiqe manufacturers? Your same points apply to those as well WRT SAAMI. Why are only posts about established boutique ammunition manufacturers in the US ammunition regulatory environment subject to harange?

Why do you ignore different regulations apply to any entity offering ammunition for sale in the USA vs a home reloader for that individual's first use?

If you felt the 7.62X25mm reloads you mentioned (that were not seen to cause any difficulties by your own post) being fired during one of your range trips were so unsafe (based on projectile weight apparently by your post) why didn't you raise the issue with the range management, telling them your exact concerns and their bases?

And especially detail exactly how you know Reed's is "sticking 110 gain deeply into a case without any means to determine pressure", or where anywhere I posted anything about doing what you describe. Anywhere. That, I've gotta see.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

FWIW there is 7.62X25mm reloading data using 110 grain projectiles readily available via the internet.

Again, this is NOT ammunition manufactured for sale in the US by apparently thus far legitimate entities within the regulations of legally offering ammunition for sale in the US whether by boutique or mainstream manufacturers.

https://makarov.com/tokloaddata.html

This certainly lacks any mention of your verbiage about "", just like the reloading data I've seen from any other source for any other cartridge.

It does have verbiage about CZ-52 vs TT-33 pistols at the top of the page.

I can't vouch for the quality of this data but since it doesn't mention "sticking 110 gain deeply into a case without any means to determine pressure" then for you, it must be OK? There's no mention the entity posting that data didn't know what they were doing, but vice-versa, it doesn't explicitly say that entity did know what they're doing.

No pressure data is mentioned, only one velocity datum point, and no mention of CIP or other standards. There are notes showing Lee as the reference source or all but one of the 110 grain projectile loads.

 

[barnetmill]

Good luck Mr Zorg and you do not need to convince me to reload as you please.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

I don't reload I purchase ammo from established manufacturers available in the USA including Reed's and Norma. That's exactly where I entered this thread. In response about boutique ammunition available with JHP in 7.62X25mm. Which you copied into one of your posts. I'll certainly continue to purchase as I please which would have been true even if I hadn't posted to this thread FWIW. If you ever honestly want your questions about Reed's ammunition answered you have the web link available of course.

Here's another thread by that Clark fellow on another forum. Even his tests to destruction don't appear to contain any verbiage about "sticking 110 grain projectiles deeply into a case without any means to determine pressure".

https://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67826&perpage=30&pagenumber=1

 

[barnetmill]

I don't reload I purchase ammo from established manufacturers available in the USA including Reed's and Norma. That's exactly where I entered this thread. In response about boutique ammunition available with JHP in 7.62X25mm. Which you copied into one of your posts. I'll certainly continue to purchase as I please which would have been true even if I hadn't posted to this thread FWIW. If you ever honestly want your questions about Reed's ammunition answered you have the web link available of course.

Here's another thread by that Clark fellow on another forum. Even his tests to destruction don't appear to contain any verbiage about "sticking 110 grain projectiles deeply into a case without any means to determine pressure".

https://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67826&perpage=30&pagenumber=1

I am familiar with clark. There were some forums that were not happy with his experiments, but what he has to say is interesting. From your link.

The CZ52 is not as strong as the Tokarev or even C96
"Accurate Arms Load Book Number Two" 2000, has loads for the CZ52,
Starline brass, and AA#9. "Accurate Arms 2002 Reloader's Guide", a free
publication from AA, has some of the same loads. "11.7 gr AA#9, 110 gr
SPR RN, 1.3" OAL, (CZ-52 only) 1688 fps" These are the most powerful
7.62x25mm loads published that I have found. One might infer from these
publications that the CZ52 is the strongest 7.62x25mm pistol.

My tests contradict that conclusion. I have blown two CZ52's into pieces
with loads that my Tokarev and Mauser C96 have fired and survived.

His overall case length 1.3. I just took an empty 7.62x25 case and inserted an armscor 110 grain bullet it significantly protrudes into the case.

Clark has no precise means of measuring pressure. The hot loads quoted are hotter than the famous czech loads. Prolonged firing of high pressure loads typically puts undue wear on a gun. Think of a proof load. A gun will not blow from them in most cases, But continued use of these loads is not advisable.

There is basic weakness in the barrel of a CZ52 and Clark in something else he wrote stated that is where they will fail. The T33 barrel is fine strength wise about the chamber area.

Remember 52 is about the years these pistols were manufactured. Treat them as old timers with standard europeans loads and they should be goo to go.
I am done.

Below what over pressure ammo can do. https://sites.google.com/site/cz52vz52pistolczechoslovakia/ammo

 

[Mr. Zorg]

I am familiar with clark. There were some forums that were not happy with his experiments, but what he has to say is interesting. From your link.

His overall case length 1.3. I just took an empty 7.62x25 case and inserted an armscor 110 grain bullet it significantly protrudes into the case.

Clark has no precise means of measuring pressure. The hot loads quoted are hotter than the famous czech loads. Prolonged firing of high pressure loads typically puts undue wear on a gun. Think of a proof load. A gun will not blow from them in most cases, But continued use of these loads is not advisable.

There is basic weakness in the barrel of a CZ52 and Clark in something else he wrote stated that is where they will fail. The T33 barrel is fine strength wise about the chamber area.

Remember 52 is about the years these pistols were manufactured. Treat them as old timers with standard europeans loads and they should be goo to go.
I am done.

Below what over pressure ammo can do. https://sites.google.com/site/cz52vz52pistolczechoslovakia/ammo
View attachment 926201

View attachment 926202

So what does any of that have to do with this?

Reed's Ammunition and Research in OK, my favorite boutique ammo source, offers 7.62X25 JHP and other options.

https://shop.reedsammo.com/762x25_c14.htm

Especially considering this was a prior post this same thread?

It is weird that none of the boutique companies make any ammo in 7.62x25, but they'll offer several loads in 9x25 Dillon, .40 Super, and 10mm Magnum.

Out of all those I would bet several organs that 7.62x25 is much more popular and thus likely to make the boutique ammo companies more money.

I obviously didn't think quoting that post in my initial post on this thread was necessary for relevance nor context.

It should be clear in my user profile I don't live in OK, but for clarity sake: I am not a current, former, or even potential future employee of any ammunition company, foreign or domestic. Also I do not reload. My only reloading experience was in 1982-1983 with a Lee loader making my own .38 Special ammunition to use in my then factory new S&W Model 13 for basic practice. I sold that pistol and Lee loader in late 1983.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

I wonder if Buffalo Bore made ammo in that caliber and was then shot of of a carbine length barrel what kind of velocity you could get?

Dunno, but this thread discusses someone using 7.62X25mm in a pistol as a woods gun, and contains some 7.62X25mm load data with various projectile weights, including 110 grain.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/7-62x25-woods-gun-load.827179/

 

[Antihero]

I would be tempted to try to duplicate 327mag woods loads with a 130gr hardcast.

I talked with reeds about it and another idea and wasn't terribly impressed by their CS.....

 

[roadliner]

Remember not that long ago when the commie surplus stuff was plentiful and cheap?

Oh yeah, I just come across a stack of Shotgun News from the early 00's and it brought back fond memories. Fortunately I had the foresight to stock up not only on the milsup, but factory stuff as well. Then came Obama and the fear buying. That 7.62X25 stuff was dirt cheap, something like 1200 rounds for $80-90.

 

[GHinNH]

Further back than I care to admit I somehow came to take possession of a "cheap Chinese" Tok that came with 5-6 reloads made from necked down .223 as there was no such thing as the internet or ammo, and I had not heard of Shotgun News yet.
.
I do not even remember what happened to it, but I have regretted it many times ever since. I got the call yesterday and will be leaving shortly to go pick up my M57.

I very disappointed in the condition, especially given I paid extra for "hand pick" but that is a different subject. Shooting will wait until I completely disassemble and inspect everything. I have a spring pack coming from Wolff also before I even try.

I bought 300 PPU from Target Sports for it, and I'm just happy ammo IS available. Two main reasons I bought PPU, 1) I want to reload my own, and brass PPU was little more cost than empty cases. 2) It seems steel case ammo has dried up, hopefully just temporarily.

Regarding reloads In military firearms, I don't sway much from military/NATO spec anyway. I enjoy duplicating them as closely as possible with minor changes to improve accuracy..

 

[barnetmill]

Further back than I care to admit I somehow came to take possession of a "cheap Chinese" Tok that came with 5-6 reloads made from necked down .223 as there was no such thing as the internet or ammo, and I had not heard of Shotgun News yet.
.
I do not even remember what happened to it, but I have regretted it many times ever since. I got the call yesterday and will be leaving shortly to go pick up my M57.

I very disappointed in the condition, especially given I paid extra for "hand pick" but that is a different subject. Shooting will wait until I completely disassemble and inspect everything. I have a spring pack coming from Wolff also before I even try.

I bought 300 PPU from Target Sports for it, and I'm just happy ammo IS available. Two main reasons I bought PPU, 1) I want to reload my own, and brass PPU was little more cost than empty cases. 2) It seems steel case ammo has dried up, hopefully just temporarily.

Regarding reloads In military firearms, I don't sway much from military/NATO spec anyway. I enjoy duplicating them as closely as possible with minor changes to improve accuracy..

Sticking to factory loading pressures is wise.
A word of caution on homemade cases made from 5.56/.223 brass. The brass is often thicker on rifle derived brass. It reduces case volume that can raise pressures, but on the other hand rifle brass can withstand much higher pressures, but the over loads will stress a gun.
I do not think there is a nato spec for 7.62x25, but there is CIP or

The Commission internationale permanente pour l'épreuve des armes à feu portatives is an ... The C.I.P. safeguards that all firearms and ammunition sold to civilian .

By the way I know from personal experience that 30 mauser will function in at least some T33 type pistols, but one is not supposed to fire 7.62x25 Tok loads in a 96 Mauser pistol.

 

[barnetmill]

This link lists some data on the tok loadings. https://military.wikia.org/wiki/7.62×25mm_Tokarev
Some of the loads below are quite weak and I wonder if they for intended for mauser broomhandle pistols that the soviets had. Some of the others were intended for submachineguns and are hot.
Some of the information in the text is not completely accurate

There is a common misconception that 7.62 Tokarev surplus ammunition in the United States uses copper-coated mild steel bullets,

Many years ago I got ahold of a loaded round of what I assume was the czech M48. I took a small wire cutter and removed the jacket. There was an air space and than the steel projectile. I damaged the cutting surface of the wire cutters on that steel that strongly suggests that it was hardened steel.

 

[Snowdog]

Remember not that long ago when the commie surplus stuff was plentiful and cheap?

I found an advertisement for Yugoslavian 7.62x25 shortly after purchasing two Zastava (Yugoslavian) M57s, so I purchased a little over 2k rounds just to keep on hand (in addition to the Polish and Romanian ammunition that I also had on hand from the CZ-52 that I previously sold). Good thing as it seems like it didn't remain on the market long before drying up.

Gone are the days of inexpensive 7.62x25... but perhaps there will be days in the future when European surplus of some cartridge-of-little-interest will hit the market. Hopefully we'll be wise enough to see the value and stock up before it, too, dries up and demands a premium. It seems I missed the mark an untold number of times, but I may have made up for some of it on that occasion. Though corrosive, it seems to be decent ammunition.

 

[barnetmill]

On the return of cheap center fire surplus ammo, I am doubtful.

 

[Antihero]

Further back than I care to admit I somehow came to take possession of a "cheap Chinese" Tok that came with 5-6 reloads made from necked down .223 as there was no such thing as the internet or ammo, and I had not heard of Shotgun News yet.
.
I do not even remember what happened to it, but I have regretted it many times ever since. I got the call yesterday and will be leaving shortly to go pick up my M57.

I very disappointed in the condition, especially given I paid extra for "hand pick" but that is a different subject. Shooting will wait until I completely disassemble and inspect everything. I have a spring pack coming from Wolff also before I even try.

I bought 300 PPU from Target Sports for it, and I'm just happy ammo IS available. Two main reasons I bought PPU, 1) I want to reload my own, and brass PPU was little more cost than empty cases. 2) It seems steel case ammo has dried up, hopefully just temporarily.

Regarding reloads In military firearms, I don't sway much from military/NATO spec anyway. I enjoy duplicating them as closely as possible with minor changes to improve accuracy..

I was pretty disappointed by my m57. It's in barely fired state but the stupid pin holding the recoil spring is loose.

I think I know why it wasn't fired much

 

[GHinNH]

Well I have been back from the toy store for a while, and have it all apart now. It's really not too bad on the inside, but boy o boy there sure is not much finish left on the outside, I cannot imagine the handling required to polish off the bluing..

Just to clear up my previous post, if and when I do get to reloading I will buy brass instead of making my own from necked down cases of some sort. I would have been surprised if there were NATO specs.

There are of course a few details I don't like, but I will take care of that and refinish it too.