Gun law tweaks allow young adults to get a concealed carry permit

[Aim1]

Passed final hurdle, so does that mean the governor will sign it and it will become law?


I'm all for it. I've thought that the age of 18 is when you are an adult and should be able to do things like drink, smoke, and own a pistol. If you can serve your country in the military, than you should be able to enjoy all the rights and privileges of being an adult.





http://www.sltrib.com/home/5022372-155/gun-law-tweaks-allow-young-adults

Gun law tweaks allow young adults to get a concealed carry permit

By LEE DAVIDSON AND COURTNEY TANNER | The Salt Lake Tribune

First Published Mar 09 2017 10:03PM • Last Updated Mar 09 2017 10:54 pm

A bill to allow young adults, age 18 and older, to get concealed-carry permits gained final approval Thursday. The bill's sponsor, Rep. Karianne Lisonbee, R-Clearfield, said HB198 is intended to protect women, particularly college students, from sexual assault.

"Research shows that violent crimes, including rape, are reduced when more law-abiding citizens carry concealed handguns," she said earlier.

Opponents said that doesn't pan out in Utah, where there is a high rate of sexual assault and gun ownership is prolific.

 

[Havok7416]

So the law is designed to help college age kids carry. Aren't they typically found at a college which is usually a gun free zone? How does that help?

Furthermore the logic she is applying doesn't really make sense. A concealed gun does nothing in and of itself to reduce crime. It may help once the crime is underway though.

 

[Telekinesis]

So the law is designed to help college age kids carry. Aren't they typically found at a college which is usually a gun free zone? How does that help?

Adults over 18, even college students, do tend to go other places besides colleges. Some who are still in school may also live off campus, especially the upper classmen. Just because one subset of the age group may spend a lot of time in a gun free zone doesn't mean everyone in that age group shouldn't be able to carry a gun.

We'll also skip the fact that even though the college might be officially a gun free zone (legally or policy wise) it doesn't mean there are no guns on campus. Not encouraging anyone to break the law mind you, just noting that when I was in college (not that long ago) there were a number of people who either carried or had ready access to firearms regardless of school policy.

 

[AndyP]

Indiana issues concealed carry at 18, one of the first things I did when I turned 18 was apply for it. The silly thing was I couldn't buy handgun ammo till 21.

 

[Mousegun]

The downside, like what happened here in Tennessee when we allowed carry to MILITARY people at the age of 18, was a number of states disallowed reciprocity for that age group and Minnesota and Washington dropped us totally.

 

[hso]

The oft used military service argument isn't a good one since those young people are under the UCMJ and not the Constitution, under the control and supervision of NCOs and officers in a very controlled environment and they're required to keep personal firearms secured on base and not freely accessible.

It is better to avoid arguments that are easily countered.

 

[Torian]

The oft used military service argument isn't a good one since those young people are under the UCMJ and not the Constitution, under the control and supervision of NCOs and officers in a very controlled environment and they're required to keep personal firearms secured on base and not freely accessible.

It is better to avoid arguments that are easily countered.

As a current Company Commander in the Army, I would generally agree with this statement. If they reside in the barracks they must secure personal firearms in the company armsroom. However, it isn't that complicated to sign them out, and it is done frequently for Soldiers when they go target shooting or hunting (doesn't require the approval of the Commander/1SG unless unique circumstances are present). If they are married with children, it is possible they could live in on base housing, at which point they would NOT be required to secure personal firearms in the Armory. Carrying a concealed weapon for personal reasons on post is entirely at the discretion of the Commanding General of the installation. They have the legal means to allow it, but they aren't going to unless it's something along the lines of a personal security detail for a GO.

The argument could still be made to allow lawful carry of personally owned weapons for these youngsters, but it typically default to the degree of risk the Commander is willing to accept, and they will generally accept as little as possible. The military takes a "one size fits all" approach to these issues.

 

[hso]

Torian,

Thanks for that information.

 

[George Dickel]

I was in the Army for almost 21 years and supervised a lot of 18 - 21 year old men and women. More than most people will know in their entire life so I think I have a pretty good base of experience. Most 18 year olds lack the common sense, emotional maturity and life experiences for me to feel comfortable with them carrying a weapon openly or concealed. All you have to do is pay attention the to the news stories about young people doing totally stupid, risky and dangerous things with no guns being involved. I can't remember all the barracks fights and bar fights involving young soldiers where alcohol or drugs were involved or just plain bad tempers. College students are right there when it comes to stupid activities that have led to death or severe injury. Yes, there are exceptions to this as there exceptions to anything but again these are exceptions not the rule. By the time most people turn 21 they are reasonably well settled, many married or finishing up their education.

 

[denton]

In Utah, a person with a concealed carry permit can carry on the campus of any state operated school. The new 18 YO permits exclude high schools, middle schools, and elementary schools. So 18+ YO permitted college students can carry at most colleges. Old farts like me can walk into a high school armed.

 

[hdwhit]

Havok 7416 wrote: "...a college which is usually a gun free zone?"

Usually, but Texas recently amended their laws to allow guns on campus (with some restrictions and limitations).

 

[Sergei Mosin]

Either you're an adult at 18, with all the rights appertaining thereto, or you're not. This in-between stuff has always caused a lot of angst, and rightly so.

Personally, I wouldn't object to raising the age of majority to 21.

 

[mnrivrat]

"Most 18 year olds lack the common sense, emotional maturity and life experiences for me to feel comfortable with them carrying a weapon openly or concealed."

Then you are against sending them into a combat zone ?

 

[hq]

Well. An interesting topic. I got my first handgun permits at the age of 15 and CCW at 19. Looking back, I can't objectively think of myself as too immature at the time. I was 25 when CCW saved my bacon and I can't help thinking about what might have happened had I been 18.

 

[Sam1911]

"Most 18 year olds lack the common sense, emotional maturity and life experiences for me to feel comfortable with them carrying a weapon openly or concealed."

Then you are against sending them into a combat zone ?

No, no. They're good for that. Why should we consider someone trustworthy, just because we consider them disposable?

 

[danez71]

No, no. They're good for that. Why should we consider someone trustworthy, just because we consider them disposable?

Wow, you've framed things quite oddly; aside from that, we shouldn't.


But keeping with the context of young military personnel, I think your question is way off.

If we should be able to trust them enough not to shoot each other while in the military situation(s) , why shouldn't be able to trust them in a civilian setting?

 

[Dog Soldier]

The Governor of Utah, vetoed the Constitutional carry after it passed the Legislature. I would expect him to veto the pending bills.

 

[Sam1911]

Wow, you've framed things quite oddly; aside from that, we shouldn't.

Warning: Objects in the rear view mirror may be more sarcastic than they appear.

 

[hso]

No, no. They're good for that. Why should we consider someone trustworthy, just because we consider them disposable?

Danez71,

You've been around long enough to know that Sam is communicating more than what was written. Pity we don't have an irony emoji to make that obvious.

 

[hso]

Warning: Objects in the rear view mirror may be more sarcastic than they appear.

Now, now, Sam, we know that cannon fodder is drawn heavily from those with failed or unrealized potential so those with it don't have to sacrifice as much. Old men get to sit comfortably playing at the game while the pawns are sacrificed.

 

[Elkins45]

Pity we don't have an irony emoji to make that obvious.

I participate in a forum where purple text is used to denote sarcastic or ironic comments. I'm not sure it helps.

 

[hso]

I participate in a forum where purple text is used to denote sarcastic or ironic comments. I'm not sure it helps.

I like the purple prose color code idea.

 

[Sam1911]

Now, now, Sam, we know that cannon fodder is drawn heavily from those with failed or unrealized potential so those with it don't have to sacrifice as much. Old men get to sit comfortably playing at the game while the pawns are sacrificed

Indeed. Just because I want someone to fight for me and die for me doesn't mean I want to have to treat him as an equal, or certainly allow him to exist near me while in possession of something so utterly risky as a handgun.

 

[lead-inspector]

No, no. They're good for that. Why should we consider someone trustworthy, just because we consider them disposable? Warning: Objects in the rear view mirror may be more sarcastic than they appear.
Hey Guys I recognised Sam's sarcasm. Shared it with my wife we both laughed.

 

[George Dickel]

Nearly all states require a person to be 21 to purchase and consume alcohol. Some states experimented with lowering the drinking age to 18 and it turned out to be a big mistake. To drive a commercial vehicle (truck, bus) interstate you have to be 21. Most law enforcement agencies require a person to be 21. You can begin training as an air traffic controller at 18 but an individual is required to have 4 years training before being allowed to work, age 22. To be the president of the US you have to be 35, 30 to be a US Senator and 25 for a Representative. There are probably a lot of other professions where you are required to be 21 or over. What do you think the main reason for this is? Maybe maturity, judgement and experience? I don't think young people under 21 should be made to go into combat. Again because of the psychological impact on a young mind. Ever wonder why there are so many screwed up Viet Nam veterans and the extremely high suicide rate in our current military forces. Why do we have soldiers fighting at 18, because this age group believes they are bullet proof, invincible and will live forever. I know my friends and I felt that way. Easier to get this group to attack a machine gun than the 21 year old that has discovered they are not bullet proof and immortal and may have a family they are responsible for. During the Viet Nam era when I served, I was involved in a discussion with a few people about how cruel the VC were. One of the older, crustier combat experienced NCO's said that there was no one any more violent and cruel than and 18 year old American soldier who had seen friends killed and maimed by an enemy that they couldn't engage and pissed off because he was put into that position against his will. When soldiers are in the rear areas in the sandbox their weapons and ammo are controlled, there are multiple levels of supervision watching them and there is no alcohol allowed. The military forces you to mature and to follow orders and to consider the consequences for their actions. This age group that has never served in the military and experienced the regimentation, self discipline, and realiztion there are consequences for their actions. Many are still living at home providing little to nothing towards their upkeep. This is the group that worries me the most. This group has no complaint because they have not and are not required to serve in a combat situation. 21 is not a random age some one came up with, it was based on research of real world experiences. Why is it required to be 16 to obtain a drivers license instead of 13 or 14? Many states now have graduated licenses that have restrictions based on age. Again because experience has shown that young people do not have the judgement and maturity.