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Gun owners are shooting ourselves in the foot with our kids and not locking up guns

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by usmarine0352_2005, May 5, 2013.

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  1. usmarine0352_2005

    usmarine0352_2005 Member

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    These two incidents happened in the same week sadly. What is wrong with us? Why aren't we locking up our guns? There is no excuse for these situations and kids are paying for it and the anti-gunners are using it against us.



    When will we start locking up our guns from kids?




    I'm not saying that you can't have an un-locked up gun for protection, but you had better keep it somewhere where your kids can't find it.





    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...er-being-shot-by-her-13-year-old-brother?lite






    http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/...atal-shooting-sister-20130501,0,2768797.story




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  2. Odd Job

    Odd Job Member

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    Any person too young to understand the four rules and independently shoot within the limitations thereof, should only be allowed to use firearms under supervision.
     
  3. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    Perhaps if everyone taught their kids about guns from day one, like they do anything else that might harm them, we'd have less of this.

    When I first saw this, I was thinking you were meaning exactly that, and there was no need to lock them up. Now I see youre just jumping on the bandwagon for locking them up, instead of educating them.

    We grew up with guns all over the house, in racks, closets and drawers, and never had any problems. We knew what they were, where they were, never played with them, and would never touch them without asking, which was all that was required to see them at any time. We could shoot them pretty much any time we wanted, and by age 9 or 10 or so, were trusted enough to be allowed to go out on own own with them, with our buddies and their guns, and all of us came back alive too.

    Our kids learned basically the same way, and with the same results, although by the time they were teens, the social control freaks were hard at it, and there were challenges.

    This isnt a security issue, its an education issue. But it seems, we no longer give, or demand responsibility from our kids early on, like we used to, and it appears they cant be trusted with anything dangerous without adult supervision. Looks like all the social planning going on in the schools is right on track. Before you know it, you wont be able to trust adults ether. Oh, wait, never mind..... ;)
     
  4. TCB in TN

    TCB in TN Member

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    I agree that unlimited access to firearms for children unable to be trained to be safe is a bad thing.

    That said exactly how many kids are killed each year because they take their parents cars w/o supervision and wreck?

    How many kids are killed each year from taking their parents drugs? The pool comparison is out there and IIRC the number of children who die in pools is around 300 annually, a very similar number to the number of accidental shooting deaths. A much lower number than drug overdoses, a fraction of the number of kids killed in all car wrecks, killed in falls or other accidents etc.

    I do believe that we as gun owners need to be responsible. Just think that the overall numbers are needed to put things into the proper perspective.
     
  5. erikk8829

    erikk8829 Member

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    Raised 5 kids, always had many guns around, not locked up and all loaded. When I came home from work (state police) gun belt came off and hung on closet door knob. Children were taught from day 1 gun safety and to mind their parents. As they became older they were allowed to handle the firearms and shoot them with supervision. To them firearms were not the forbidden fruit so they did not think having them around was a big deal
    It is the people who hide, lock up & think they are safe are the ones asking for trouble the minute the kids are left alone. One way or another kids will find a way and then the trouble starts
    \
     
  6. usmarine0352_2005

    usmarine0352_2005 Member

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    I'm all for educating kids. I grew up with guns around and my dad taught us not to play with them and we didn't.


    However, who's to say these kids weren't educated?




    And just because are educated doesn't mean they won't still play with guns. Will a 5 year old really be able to be "educated" enough?
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  7. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    I will say they weren't educated. If they were educated, they wouldn't have disobeyed the four rules.

    Every household is different. It is the responsibility of every gun owner to correctly appraise the maturity level of the people in his house and secure his guns appropriately.

    My middle three boys, ranging from 7-11, are fine with any gun, anywhere. They know they aren't toys and won't mess with them. My youngest, who is autistic, has no concept of guns, violence, or death, and has no boundaries at all. My oldest (technically ex step-) son, is 15, and a bit impressionable and loopy. Whet I keep locked up or available will vary depending on who is in the house.
     
  8. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    MSM are a huge component of this. Whenever there's accidental gun death, MSM jumps all over it to demonize THE GUN. An accidental death by any other means is, of course, brushed aside as tragic but normal. A drowning is not blamed on the pool. A traffic death is not blamed on the car.

    These accidental deaths are indeed tragic, and the associated parents are accountable. But not because they owned guns or because they failed to keep them locked up--it's because they acted irresponsibly WRT the safety rules, the ones that ALWAYS avoid tragedy when followed. And none of them say anything about keeping guns under lock and key.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2013
  9. Fremmer

    Fremmer Member

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    You make the choice to lock away your guns. That's your choice in your house with your kids.

    But what I do, in my own house, with my own kids, and my own guns, is none of your business. Or the government's business.
     
  10. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    As a nation of gun owners, our average knowledge of basic safety and marksmanship is WOEFUL. Worse than woeful. There are few ranges to practice at and they tend to be extremely expensive. Respect comes from knowledge and knowledge comes from use. Locking guns up is good and sometimes essential, but mystery breeds curiosity. And curiosity can be fatal.

    Always assume the young one WILL repeat WILL find the iron. They always seem to find that gun, no matter where you squirrel it away. I liked the rule, I think it was Finn Aagaard's, that the kids can shoot any gun in the house but had to ask first. They learn, they see, and they learn to respect. Otherwise the thing is just a mysterious totem practically screaming to be picked up and played with.
     
  11. OleReb

    OleReb Member

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    I agree,these days they have to be locked up or out of reach depending on the age of your kids. Soon as my kids got big enough to get a stool to reach the top shelf where i kept my loaded handgun i got a vault and they all went in it,i still keep one loaded handgun out just incase but its always on me and never set down where anyone can get it. I started teaching my kids very young about guns so they know alot about them and to respect them but the reality is they are KIDS and kids do stupid things sometimes,the days of leaving a rifle in the corner with kids in the house are over,all this does is makes gun owners look like idiots and fuels the gun ban agenda.
     
  12. vito

    vito Member

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    Personally I resent your using the phrase "What is wrong with us?" What do you mean by "us"? I support gun education as much as anyone, but just because some idiot is irresponsible with his kids safety does not make me feel one bit guilty; there is no "us". Most gun owners will never experience their children killing themselves or others with the parent's gun, fortunately so. As long as I am still allowed to raise my own children I, and no one else, will decide what is the right balance of safety and gun education. In truth, my five kids are all adults now, and every one of them were trained by me in gun safety and the proper use and care of firearms. Some (in fact almost all) have chosen not to have a gun in their home, which is totally their choice. When some moron drives drunk and kills someone, I don't say "What is wrong with us?"; the question is "what is wrong with the a--hole who drunkenly killed someone?". For what it is worth, when my four oldest were growing up I kept a loaded, unsecured gun in my bed side table, and never had the least concern about it. My fifth child, is, well, a bit of a problem, and I would NEVER leave an unlocked gun around while he lived in my home. Even this fifth one learned from me how to safely handle and shoot a gun, but I made the decision to change how I kept my guns due to his situation. And now that I have grandchildren who often visit, I keep my guns in a gun safe, with one relatively available in a small GunVault in my dresser. I will never put my grandchildren at risk, and truly believe I never put my children at undue risk.
     
  13. Reloadron
    • Contributing Member

    Reloadron Member

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    Well usmarine0352_2005, I'll tell you where I see the problem. There is something like 80 plus million gun owners in the US.

    There is a difference between a gun owner and a shooting enthusiast and what we have in this forum are those gun owners who also are shooting enthusiast. You are preaching to the choir in these forums. The problem is getting all gun owners to act responsibly. As stupid as it sounds to many of us, many gun owners are woefully uneducated when it comes to proper gun storage and security. So the question becomes how do we educate all the gun owners beyond the gun enthusiast?

    Maybe some PSA spots?

    Ron
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2013
  14. 351 WINCHESTER

    351 WINCHESTER Member

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    A huge part of the problem is lack of education on the part of gun owners. I taught my sons early on what guns were, what they could do and how to respect them. We live in a nation where we expect our govt. to raise our kids which as many of us know is totally wrong.
     
  15. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    It is all about gun proofing your kids and kid proofing your guns. One or the other doesn't work by itself. Lock up your firearms when they aren't on you. I have two safes and I don't have any children yet (but will in a month.) One safe is quick access where I keep my concealed weapon when it is not on my person, next to where I sleep at night. The other is a free standing RSC where I keep the rest, unloaded with ammo locked up elsewhere. When children start having cognitive thoughts, start with the basics that we all know. No government should be allowed to regulate when they can start learning or insurance on our weapons if we don't want it, or is our "safe" "safe enough" to keep them out. You know your family better than anyone else.

    Children accidental firearm deaths under the age of 17 average about 150 a year. Statistically it is a rather insignificant number compared to all the other ways children die but as parents and soon to be parents, you take precautions and hope for the best.
     
  16. shafter

    shafter Member

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    If a child is properly taught then there should be no need of locking up a firearm.

    I am getting more than a little peeved at the whole "shooting ourselves in the foot", "don't give the antis ammunition", and in general bending over backwards to not offend.
     
  17. splattergun

    splattergun Member

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    Supervision, education, more supervision and education and THEN locks. Did I mention supervision and education?
     
  18. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Legally and morally I agree with you. We're not culpable. But that doesn't mean there isn't an "us" or that we have no role to play. The good news is that spreading knowledge and helping to train or direct people towards knowledge and training also helps to firm up the RKBA in general.
     
  19. Sam Cade

    Sam Cade Member

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    The name is wrong, this happened in my (very small) hometown.






    I wonder what other incorrect news I will encounter today.
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  20. hovercat

    hovercat Member

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    After a generation grows up knowing (because mom and dad did it) that firearms are so volatile that they must be kept locked behind layers of steel, we will not need a second amendment, folks will not dare touch the things.
     
  21. stumpers

    stumpers Member

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    This "tragedy" is on the parents. This negligence has little to do with the tool and everything to do with the responsibility neglected by the parents.

    If one cannot train a child properly, then one has the obligation to provide for that child in every manner of failed training. In this case, that provision should have been secured firearms.

    I trust that my son is trained to know better, but I still secure my firearms from his access, because there is no certainty.
     
  22. goon

    goon Member

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    I hate to say it, but you're right. There are a lot of situations where we're not helping ourselves.
     
  23. Geno

    Geno Member

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    Unless I am wearing my firearms, or holding them close-by, as in direct sight, they are locked in a vault. My ammunition is also locked away.

    Geno
     
  24. Steel Horse Rider

    Steel Horse Rider Member

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    Projecting your own beliefs and understandings to all other humans is a fatal flaw of humanity. My 3 brothers and I were raised in a house with loaded guns, including a dreaded "high powered rifle" (an Argentine Mauser) without shooting anything more than a marauding coyote, skunk, or dog. Accidents, tragedies, and stupidity will cause the loss of innocent lives no matter the precautions taken or the hardware available. The best way to combat the misuse of these tragedies is to educate people that life is a risky business at best, so all of us needs to understand that life and opportunity are both precious and should be used for maximum potential, not strictly for self-preservation.
     
  25. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Kids must be taught! Kids must be given closely supervised access. Education is the ultimate key to safety.


    ...



    However, I don't care how educated you think your 5 year old is, leaving a loaded firearm LITERALLY lying around where he and his two year old sibling may just have the pure, natural, childish lack of mature understanding to do something which will end their lives, is just IMMORALLY STUPID. Doing things that make no sense, that they've been told and shown not to do, that they absolutely "know better than" to do -- is what pre-schoolers DO. It's practically their job in that stage of life. They spend almost every waking moment learning from their MISTAKES.

    Putting young children in a situation where they are free to make a mistake with the possible consequence of homicide, even homicide of their own baby sibling, is UTTERLY DEVOID of parental responsibility.

    Pre-school aged kits, tragically, find death occasionally despite our best efforts as parents. But for us to have so little respect for the lethal power of a firearm in their trusting, innocent, ignorant hands makes no more sense than leaving them to wander unattended in a room of running power tools, or playing in a half-full bathtub, or to play in the street just because we told them to remember to watch for cars.

    Unconscionable.
     
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