Gun owners who don't know about guns

[ilbob]

Gun owners who don't know about guns

Unfortunately that's the rule, rather than the exception. Only a small percentage of gun owners are really into guns and take the time to learn about them.

The same thing could easily be said about the owners of automobiles, or refrigerators for that matter.

 

[pax]

delta9 ~

My father gave me his shotgun a couple years ago. He handed it to me with the immortal words, "You know, the nice thing about a shotgun is, you don't have to clean it."

I did so too.

pax

 

[1911Tuner]

You'd be shocked at the gun enthusiasts who don't know much about the mechanics or the function of their guns. It's a lot like fast car afficionados who couldn't describe the function of a 4-stroke engine to save their souls.

 

[Trebor]

I swear that when I was growing up, the NRA only taught 3. I don't think they taught the 1st one they teach now. I would have take my first NRA safety course 45 years ago or so. Anyone else from that era recall there being three?

The NRA's Rule Three Rules for Safe Gun Handling

1. Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction

2. Always keep the trigger off the trigger until ready to shoot

3. Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.

The NRA also has additional safety rules, but those are the "Big Three."


The "Four Rules of Gun Safety" was developed and popularized by Jeff Cooper. I actually prefer the NRA rules myself because "Treat every gun as if it were loaded" is impossible to follow all the time. What happens when you want to clean the gun? You can't clean a loaded gun, so if you followed that rule absolutely you'd never be able to clean the gun.

Obviously, when you use a little common sense, you realize that the rule doesn't apply once you've field stripped the gun into it's component parts. But, a rule that that requires exceptions undercuts the absoluteness of the rule in my mind.

Other people disagree and that's fine. I don't want to start an argument over which set of rules is "better." As long as you follow one set or the other you should be safe.

 

[Justin]

The problem is, what do you have to "know" to not look like an idiot?

All you have to know is when to admit the limit of your knowledge.

 

[sm]

My post earlier was simply to remind folks, not everyone knows everything about every thing firearm related.
Nor do they about anything they use on a day to day basis.

My world does not revolve firearms.
My world does not revolve knives.
Just part of the toolbox I use to in my journey through life.

hso,
No way could I do what he does, and he admits he has no experience in what I have.

1911Tuner, another one that has shared with me, he really has no interest in shooting some of what I have, not really familiar with the guns.
He would be more prone to mess with the guns, than the shooting discipline.

Old Fuff now...hehehe, I suspected that old boy was not as dumb as he was letting on...I was right. He doesn't tell everything he knows.

 

[Camille Eonich]

...and who are letting umpteen years of gunk destroy my/our great-grandfather's .22 that they got because they are "gun people"...

I do admit a tiny tad of sour grapes here.

Why not offer to clean it for them if it is bothering you that bad?

 

[Dope]

I think it is easy to become enamored with the idea that gun owners are, on the whole, well-educated, safety-conscious and enthusiasts for the sport. Why? Because we're here. 90% of the people here are really INTO guns. This does not translate to the general population.

Hell, a large amount of people probably think it silly to chat with a bunch of computer geeks on a website about guns.

I guess I'm just used to it. I've been a car enthusiast for about 10 years and I spend a lot of time on my various favorite car forums, amongst well-educated (in the area of cars) people with the same interests. However, for every 1 true car enthusiast out there, there are 100 people in the "real world" who think that 4cylinders are the epitomy of performance, that think those little magnets that go on your fuel line will gain you 5 horsepower, that couldn't change a flat if their lives depended on it, etc...

Fact is, some people just like to drive. Or to shoot. They don't care about all the details. They're happy to live their lives, never knowing where a spark plug or a firing pin goes.

Dope

 

[akodo]

If you have a big shop full of tools, chances are you know how to service most of 'em, use them as they were designed to be and you are aware of the ins and outs, so to speak.

some yes, some no. I know a person who has a pottery studio. He can make hell of wonderful ceramic vessels, knows how to mix many different glazes, how things will react in the kiln...but I know he doesn't know how the motor in the pottery wheel works, or how the kiln works. If the kiln doesn't work he would call someone.

I've been exposed to plenty of wood workers who are very similar too. Use the power tool then hang it back up. That's that. For some, if it doesn't work it must be broken, just go buy another one at manards or wherever. For others, if it doesn't work it must be broken, take it to (specialty shop) for warantee repairs, get it back in a couple of weeks. Repeat as necessary.

 

[The Wiry Irishman]

My favorites are the people that come to club to shoot full to bursting with firearms knowledge gained mostly from video games, especially when its their first time shooting and they feel the need to lecture experienced shooters about guns. One kid felt the need to tell me that the AK isn't near as powerful as the M16 and just isn't reliable because of its age and communist construction. I imagine he would have continued on about how you can tell the AK is inferior because its got wood on it instead of space-age polymer, but another club member who collects commie guns overheard him and spent ten minutes setting him straight.

 

[The Annoyed Man]

I've been pretty good about disassembling my pistols and cleaning them thoroughly, but not always after every single trip to the range, unless the gun just got really stinkin' dirty. Sometimes, it is after every other trip to the range. But I do clean them, and I do it thoroughly, and I like a completely clean bore.

My rifles, OTH, I'm not so good with. I thoroughly clean the bores, the magazines, the receivers and the bolts (although I usually only clean the exterior and face of the bolts). However, I have never removed a barreled action from the stock on one of my rifles so as to clean the trigger group. I think the reason is that I'm afraid I'll wreck the accuracy if I don't get it properly bedded when I put it back together. Maybe that's an irrational fear, and if somebody ever wants to show me how to do it right, I'm willing to learn. I've just never had anybody show me how before.

 

[pdowg881]

I know plenty of people who give me a funny look when I ask when the last time they cleaned gun was, and they look at me and go "huh?" Then I have to explain how they need to be cleaned every so often. I also know a few who brag how they have never cleaned or oiled their gun. My friend finally listened to me when his rem700 started getting surface rust. Amazing that people will spend money on a nice rifle and not know how to take care of it.

 

[EllisWyatt]

Wait -- they know about the four rules?

I've been around guns my entire life. Didn't really know anything about the "four rules" until I came to this website.

Exactly. It's a funny kind of ignorance to know something that specific! I'll take that over some of the stuff I see at the range ANY day.

 

[davepool]

happiness is a clean gun; the smell of Hoppes#9 makes my d**k hard

 

[LeonCarr]

I have worked with cops that didn't know the difference between an auto and a revolver.

The only thing worse than gun owners who don't know about guns are people who carry guns everyday to protect and serve the public who don't know about guns.

I used to work with a guy that carried a beautiful Stainless Colt Delta Elite 10mm as his duty weapon. During qualifications it started jamming about every other round. He said, "There is something wrong with this gun. I think I am gonna send it back to the factory". I looked at the gun, and asked him when he cleaned it last. He said, "I never have". I offered to clean it for him free of charge, and he told me, "I have been a cop for 25 years, and I know how to clean a gun". I left him alone after that.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[bluestarlizzard]

"I've been around guns my entire life. Didn't really know anything about the "four rules" until I came to this website."

in my case, i didn't know what ya'll were refering to as THE FOUR RULES. but they are the same as the safty talk my dad gave me when i was a kid. just verbilized diffrently.

 

[I LIKE IT!]

I'm always quick to point out that im a "gun enthusiast, not expert"
I may or may not know but im always willing to learn all I can.

 

[gp911]

This is degenerating...

If you can't sleep because you know that .22 is just going to turn into a pile of scheisse due to neglect then ask to take it shooting and clean it thoroughly afterward. The bolt commentary is dumb, but the car analogy is very fitting here. I used to work in the racing industry and met many yahoos who had expensive cars and knew nothing about them. Many of my family members show some of these traits, repeating the old saws about Russian rifles also shooting .308 or .30-06, a .22 hit in the toe will come out your ear, etc. etc. Irritating, but they do that...

Still, when it comes to cleaning, aside from corrosive ammo, how many guns have you found all gunked up that were _permanently_ damaged by the gunk that you removed all those years later? Compare that to all those Mosins and similar with great bores that shot corrosive ammo for years and had to be counterbored due to overzealous use of the cleaning rod wearing the end of the muzzle.

If a gun gets so dirty that it malfunctions, clean it and it'll function again. Clean it to shiny-new all the time and you end up with a worn out gun. There's a happy medium in there somewhere...

My 2 cents...

gp911

 

[bluestarlizzard]

my real worry with people who don't clean their guns is that they probably don't know how to handle their guns. as for permentant damage, rust can do a real number on a good gun. the only reason not to clean your firearms on a regular (every time you shoot it) basis is if your testing the gun (i.e. how dirty can you get it before it jams). at the very least you should try to inspect your guns monthly for signs of rust or other damage.

 

[[email protected]]

The guns are theirs so I guess I`d say to each his own. Not being offensive but why are you concerned with someone elses property? Or maybe, if it`s eatin away at you, try asking them to let you clean them and teach them how.

 

[walking arsenal]

It's like people who own cars but know nothing about them.

"Hey, a mustang. Thats cool looking lets buy it!"

It's that simple and common.

 

[BridgeWalker]

Yeah, ya got it right with the thread degeneration. I think I'm gonna head out of this one.

I'm pretty new to the world of open gun-nut-ness. I'm still feeling about for what role guns play in most people's lives--from antis, to hillbillies, to folks who live at the range, to military/leo, etc. Just trying to get a feel, so I asked a general question.

Ftr, I did *not* say:

--Everyone should refer to basic safety principles as the four rules.
--No one has any business touching a gun until they expert with all gun-related areas of knowledge.
--If you don't know about different primer hardnesses your knowledge is seriously lacking.
--I am very knowledgeable about guns.

I *did* say:

--I was surprised that some gunowners do not clean their guns, ever.
--I have what I consider minimal knowledge--that is, how to keep my guns clean and operational indefinitely for the kinds of uses I subject them to.
--I was made aware of a major philosophical difference in which I have a personal interest.

I'm not trying to challenge anyone or insult anyone. I'm sure as heck not trying to show off or brag about my expert knowledge, which pretty much does not exist. I have no illusions about my vast ignorance, but I also have no illusions about what I consider the necessity of my few competencies.

I'm not asking for a solution about the family guns; I mentioned them as a reason for my interest in the topic.

Thanks for the neat conversation though.

 

[gp911]

The original posting was certainly thought-provoking, which is why most of us like to come here.

I appreciate you adding a little clarity back in here.


gp911

 

[saspic]

I never thought Delta9 was taking anyone to task for not being a firearms expert. It was the misinformation they perpetuated that was troubling. It reminds me of Ronald Reagan's old line:

Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so.

If you can't know everything, make sure what you know is correct!
Off topic, that was actually a very good speech President Reagan gave. Here are a few highlights, and a link if you want to read the whole thing. It's kind of long, but an easy read.

But beyond that, "the full power of centralized government"--this was the very thing the Founding Fathers sought to minimize. They knew that governments don't control things. A government can't control the economy without controlling people. And they know when a government sets out to do that, it must use force and coercion to achieve its purpose. They also knew, those Founding Fathers, that outside of its legitimate functions, government does nothing as well or as economically as the private sector of the economy.

We have so many people who can't see a fat man standing beside a thin one without coming to the conclusion that the fat man got that way by taking advantage of the thin one. So they are going to solve all the problems of human misery through government and government planning.

We are now going to solve the dropout problem, juvenile delinquency, by reinstituting something like the old CCC camps, and we are going to put our young people in camps, but again we do some arithmetic, and we find that we are going to spend each year just on room and board for each young person that we help $4,700 a year! We can send them to Harvard for $2,700! Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that Harvard is the answer to juvenile delinquency.

Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this Earth.

http://www.reaganlibrary.com/reagan/speeches/rendezvous.asp

 

[saspic]

Sorry, couldn't resist just one more.

Well, I think it's time we ask ourselves if we still know the freedoms that were intended for us by the Founding Fathers.