Gun Rights for former felons

[tgp]

I am asking for mature, thoughtful adult responses and not childish rants. I have one statement as food for thought, then a question.

The fact is I committed a crime years ago and went to jail. After paying my debt to society and learning the error of my mistake(a very painful lesson), I am now classified in society as ex-felon.

Statement:

I believe in Second Amendment to the United States Constitution.

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

I have noticed many supposed conservatives say they believe in it, but when asked about restriction for former felons who have restored their rights under state law, they support the restrictions,which contradict the words of the "the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

I believe that once you allow the law to be subverted you completely destroy the whole law and that is why there are so many restrictions. A gun right has turned into a gun privilege that depends on government. If you don't believe me then look up the definitions of a right and a privilege.

Being an ex-felon it is very hard to find a job(The illegals have taken most of the traditional jobs for felons) and make legal money( not whining, just stating facts and I will do what I have to do to remain legal for the rest of my life), as with most felons I do not live in the not-so-good neighborhood.

No where in any country is one totally safe in their home, so I believe everyone should be able to have a gun in their home for self protection, even though that is not really the main point of The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. I believe it is a right to be able to protect yourself in your house.

Before I ask a question, please no responses like "Well you didn't care about our laws before you broke them!". I would like to make a few points, before you judge and post responses.

1) Everyone makes mistakes. All ex-felons were once legal citizens, before that made that mistake.

2) Hypocrisy - Rush Limbaugh used to say "Lock up everyone who has a drug problem" until he made a unfortunate mistake of getting hooked himself, then changed his tune. The bible says you will be judged how you judge people.

3) The point of incarceration is not a life long punishment, that is what the death penalty is for (Which I think is far more humane than a life sentence in that hell hole). The goal is rehabilitated. That does happen to many, but most are not given another chance.

4) In most circumstances if you want to commit a crime, you would not use your own gun. So me having a legal would not stop me if I needed a gun to commit a crime. It is so easy to get an illegal gun. That is not what I want.

5) I know under most state and federal law, it is lawful to own a firearm after you restore your rights and fill out a form to the ATF restoring right, but congress has defunded that department, so because of a piece of paper many go to prison and sometime for life, for merely owning a firearm or a simple bullet. In fact hundreds ex-felons have gone to prison for shooting people breaking into their homes.

5) Are you making people become law breakers. Many live in bad neighborhoods where if they call 911 the police will take over an hour to get there. Which is the death penalty for them.

Question:

Is there any legal way to own a firearm? In any state, in any place anywhere in the United States. Anyway, anywhere, any how legally?

 

[JImbothefiveth]

I have noticed many supposed conservatives say they believe in it, but when asked about restriction for former felons who have restored their rights under state law, they support the restrictions,which contradict the words of the "the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

It also states that you shall not deprive someone of "life or liberty without due process of law". They are denied this liberty by due process, so I do not believe it's unconstitutional.

For instance, if the government said you have to live in a cage, that would be unconstitutional. When they sentence someone to prison, since they are using due process, it isn't unconstitutional

I am asking for mature, thoughtful adult responses and not childish rants. I have one statement as food for thought, then a question.

The fact is I committed a crime years ago and went to jail. After paying my debt to society and learning the error of my mistake(a very painful lesson), I am now classified in society as ex-felon.

For what crime? I oppose taking it away for crimes like copyright infirngement.

Before I ask a question, please no responses like "Well you didn't care about our laws before you broke them!". I would like to make a few points, before you judge and post responses.

1) Everyone makes mistakes. All ex-felons were once legal citizens, before that made that mistake.

As was everyone in prison. Is it wrong to send them to prison?

2) Hypocrisy - Rush Limbaugh used to say "Lock up everyone who has a drug problem" until he made a unfortunate mistake of getting hooked himself, then changed his tune.

That's why I won't listen to Limbaugh.

The bible says you will be judged how you judge people.

I do not believe it is judging to say someone needs to go to jail for commiting certain crimes, and I do not believe it is judging to say that other penaltys are appropriate. Judging is, of course, wrong.

3) The point of incarceration is not a life long punishment, that is what the death penalty is for (Which I think is far more humane than a life sentence in that hell hole). The goal is rehabilitated.

I personally feel that the goal of the prison system is to keep criminals off the streets. Since most crimes are commited by repeat offenders, I feel that it is okay to make it more difficult for violent criminals to obatin firearms.

That does happen to many, but most are not given another chance.

That is because if they fail to be rehabilitated once, they will probably fail again. By the way, the death penalty is not the only punishment for life. There are also life sentences, and I believe the death penalty would just make the time spend in prison more miserable

4) In most circumstances if you want to commit a crime, you would not use your own gun. So me having a legal would not stop me if I needed a gun to commit a crime. It is so easy to get an illegal gun. That is not what I want.

At least it ight prohibit a few violent criminals from getting one, or give them a less reliable one.

5) I know under most state and federal law, it is lawful to own a firearm after you restore your rights and fill out a form to the ATF restoring right, but congress has defunded that department, so because of a piece of paper many go to prison and sometime for life, for merely owning a firearm or a simple bullet. In fact hundreds ex-felons have gone to prison for shooting people breaking into their homes.

I thought there was a law passed, saying that people cannot be prosecuted for that

5) Are you making people become law breakers. Many live in bad neighborhoods where if they call 911 the police will take over an hour to get there. Which is the death penalty for them.

I'd imagine most of these felons, if they were of the violent type, already have (illegal) firearms.

 

[Schleprok62]

It would help if we had an idea of what you did. Not to be nosey, but if it was something that didn't involve a deadly weapon, or some other form of violent crime... etc... I agree with JI on the copyright infringement and similar issues...

 

[TimRB]

"The goal is rehabilitated. That does happen to many..."

There's the rub. The fact is that almost no one is rehabilitated in prison, and the vast majority of released felons are back within three years. Sorry, but you will have to keep your nose clean for some years before society (in the person of a judge) will allow you to own a gun again.

Tim

 

[Yo2slick]

I dont agree with felons having their right to bear arms takin away. There are so many crimes classified as felonies now that it seems like another form of gun control to me. If your crime involved a firearm then no, you shouldnt have the right to own another one because you obviously can not behave with one. If a felon...well hell anyone is caught with an illegal firearm then he goes back to jail for good or is shot, one or the other. There are also people that are wrongfully convicted that lose their rights. Look at it this away, alot of people own guns that have no business with them that have no criminal record at all. What about those people?

 

[John E.]

Is there any legal way to own a firearm? In any state, in any place anywhere in the United States. Anyway, anywhere, any how legally?

In Texas, a felon can keep a gun on his premises once five years have passed since imprisonment or parole has ended, whichever is later.

 

[waverace]

as long as it was a non violent crime I see no problem with rights being restored , if a former felon can prove him or herself to be a good member of society , if however they reoffend or abuse that trust placed in them then thats it , no third chance and in fact if they used the firearm in a crime , instant death penalty , no excuses . as far as I am aware can you not get your rights reinstated ? Im not sure of the process but I am sure there is a way to get pardoned .

 

[JImbothefiveth]

There are so many crimes classified as felonies now that it seems like another form of gun control to me.

As I said, I don't support it being taken away for stuff like copyright infringement.

There are also people that are wrongfully convicted that lose their rights.

They also go to prison. The problem isn't punishing criminals, it's wrongul convictions.

 

[charliewood]

Many years ago, I worked construction when I was laid off from my current job.Many of those i worked with were felons , the reasons ran the gamblet, from getting behind on child support to many times and for over $2k. to doing something stupid when they were 18 . I believe STRONGLY that the felon laws need to be revisited. now, if you are a dangerous violent criminal, then its a no brainer to limit accessability to weapons, but in this case , those few that are like that shouldnt be out again anyhow. its not hard to become a felon, i know people who have. they were'nt trash either, or bad men. both were due to having a hard time keeping up child support. i'm not defending criminal actions. but to permanatly brand someone for all but the most serious crimes is wrong and i hope it changes. Im probably going to be bashed by "men of great integrity" that have "never" done anything illegal in there ENTIRE lives.Ive seen both sides of the track so to speak.the laws need to change. dangerous bad men need to stay in a cage, others need to be able to live down there "crime". this is all i have to say about this

 

[Iowa Don]

Firearms rights restoration

I too did some stupid things when I was young. In 1984 I got a pardon from the Gov. of Iowa. Here's what you do: call your Gov's office and ask them about the procedure. You don't need a lawyer to do or complete the process. They can't do anything you can't. Then follow directions exactly, get your ducks in a row, and submit your app. It took me almost 2 years but I did it by myself, no "help" from anybody. If it was a crime of violence you're probably screwed for good. If not, and it wasn't a sex related issue, your chances are better. It's all a very individually based process. Be thorough . Be rigidly honest. Don't lie or leave anything pertinent out. Don't leave out anything you've done to help people--volunteeering, rescuing at an accident ,--anything that demonstrates you are a better person and have truly changed. E-mail me at [email protected] and I'll do what I can to help you.

It is unreasonable to deny people any of their rights when they have completed their sentence. It constitutes a lifetime punishment, and brings to mind the "cruel and unusual" aspect to the fore.

Good luck

 

[Yo2slick]

Im not sure why your picking apart my post. I just put my 2 cents in like everyone else here. So with that being said...

As I said, I don't support it being taken away for stuff like copyright infringement.

Thats awesome!

They also go to prison. The problem isn't punishing criminals, it's wrongul convictions.

Im not going to get into the problems with our so called justice system. I was simply stating that people losing their right just because they have a felony tag is wrong IMO.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

Im not sure why your picking apart my post. I just put my 2 cents in like everyone else here

Because I'm trying to defend my view, of course.

It constitutes a lifetime punishment, and brings to mind the "cruel and unusual" aspect to the fore.

If it was only for violent criminals, I don't think it would. It's certianly not unusual, and probably no crueler than prison

 

[tgp]

I committed a an aggravated assault (no firearm or weapons were involved, a simply fist fight with a couple of kicks), it was a fight where I got the better of the other guy. I didn't even start it! The aggravating factor was the amount of damage the guy had and I kicked him. I have seen many people beat far worse when I was in school and all they got were whipping by the principle.

JImbothefiveth - Under the constitution if a law contradicts the constitution then it is null and void. Gun restriction if they could be in place would be a state issue anyway. The feds have a tricky way of implementing this because they say it applies to interstate commerce. There are tons of people suing the Federal Goverment over this. There is no relief for this issue, the department under the ATF of is now defunded. There whole thing is illegal and is implemented in an underhanded way.
There is absolutely no "due process of law" involved in this. Your justification of subverting the words of the second amendment makes "gun rights" now "gun privileges". Either the words mean what they say or not. "shall not be infringed" means no taking away from that right if you are a legal citizen.

 

[Yo2slick]

Dude if we agree on the samething then how are you defending your point of view. I am not the OP incase you got it mixed up???

 

[tgp]

I think the only reason you should not have a gun is because you're in prison. period. I have been there and I will tell you this in my opinion. About 30% are useless people and need the death penalty. About another 30% could either way if given a second chance (which very few are). The last 40% are great and honorable people that made very poor choices or bad mistakes, if given a real chance they would be honest productive citizens. If you are going to punish them for life then why let them out?

 

[Jefferson Herb]

Former Felons

There are many things to be classified as a felon from.If it was domestic violence or sex offender [ Real , not trumped bs ] I would'nt want you even breathing;but there are cases where teens lie and innocents suffer.
Once rights are restored ie voting etc,I would consider that anyone who is a citizen has that right to own.I agree with others that our system is in need of revision,thats why people move to other states.
I hope you succeed in life.

 

[Javelin]

The punishment needs to fit the crime.

I don't think this is anything new or far fetched. Going forward I feel that if a judge does see fit that an individual should forever be denied a constitutional right then it needs to be addressed as a seperate sentence or decision during the trial/hearing.

Not just something that is built in or assumed. Also, too many folks have been wrongfully accused and have even faced multiple trials, ended up on death row, and not been acquitted while others walk free because of a clerical technicality. We need to get serious about some of the crapped up things in our legal system.

 

[usmc1371]

I agree that it should be based on the crime. My best friend was in an accident while drinking and killed someone who was even more drunk than he was and now will not be able to own a gun again even though the crime he is guility of had nothing to do with guns or even violence. He is a "24 at the time" US Marine who just got out of the service after a very succesfull 4 years and two combat tours. He will never be able to get a CHL but why can't he have a gun in his home or carry a rifle hunting. I am all for taking away someones right to own a gun if they used one to commit a crime or even if they are guilty of domestic violence or other person to person crime where their intent was to commit a crime and possibaly cause harm. Just my 2 cents.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

I committed a an aggravated assault (no firearm or weapons were involved, a simply fist fight with a couple of kicks), it was a fight where I got the better of the other guy. I didn't even start it! The aggravating factor was the amount of damage the guy had and I kicked him.

If I may, could I ask for a little more specifics? Were you hitting him after he was knocket out or something? If it was just self-defense, you should seek a pardon.

JImbothefiveth - Under the constitution if a law contradicts the constitution then it is null and void. Gun restriction if they could be in place would be a state issue anyway.

The issue is whether or not a criminal can have their rights taken away. They can, just not without due process.

The feds have a tricky way of implementing this because they say it applies to interstate commerce. There are tons of people suing the Federal Goverment over this.

This particular issue is not interstate commerce, it's more about due process.

There is no relief for this issue, the department under the ATF of is now defunded. There whole thing is illegal and is implemented in an underhanded way.

They probably should fund it, for those who have changed their ways or were wrongfully convicted.

There is absolutely no "due process of law" involved in this.

To get a felony conviction, you must be tried by a jury.

Your justification of subverting the words of the second amendment makes "gun rights" now "gun privileges".

No, it doesn't. For instance, I have a 4th amendment right not to be searched without a warrant. That can be taken away by due process too, when someone is sentenced to prison, the gaurds don't need a warrant to search their cell.

Either the words mean what they say or not. "shall not be infringed" means no taking away from that right if you are a legal citizen.

There are a ton of rights, and they can all be removed by due process. For instance, "A person shall not be subjected to unreasonable searches and seizures" does not apply to someone in prison.

 

[bang_bang]

I have seen documentation from the courts allowing a convicted felon to purchase firearms. I saw this on 2 different occasions at my local FFL.

One occasion the guy killed someone 30 years prior with a gun. Second was a guy who got a lot of speeding tickets within a month, therefore, they nailed him as a repeated offender, which amounted to a felony.

I'm guessing this is state laws, but I was told around 7-10 years after serving your time, you can reapply for 2nd Amendment rights.

 

[tgp]

I am not going to argue about the law, I know what I know.

Does anyone know what state I could move to where I could be legal.

FYI (This is why when you let it happen to one it eventually happens to all):

For the record under Federal Law anyone with a misdemeanor domestic violence law (In most states now if you and your girl are arguing and the police show up, one of you have to go to jail ) and anyone who has been prescribed drugs for mental or emotional reason (including zoloff and prozac) INCLUDING THE TROOPS BACK FROM IRAQ are not allowed to own firearms.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

About 30% are useless people and need the death penalty.

Killing people who are "useless" is probably unconstitutional, qualifying as "cruel and unusual punishment".

About another 30% could either way if given a second chance (which very few are).

I thought most violent felons went on to re-offend?

The last 40% are great and honorable people that made very poor choices or bad mistakes, if given a real chance they would be honest productive citizens.

Most of those probably didn't get in to prison because of violence.

If you are going to punish them for life then why let them out?

You know, I think a lot of people are let out when they shouldn't be. However, it might be unconstitutional to give life sentences for lesser offenses, even though the people should be in jail.

And your number still leaves those who would reoffend at about 50%, more when you take out the non-violent felons. If you were sent to jail for what was truly self-defense, then I don't believe you should be prohibited from owning one.

FYI (This is why when you let it happen to one it eventually happens to all):

For the record under Federal Law anyone with a misdemeanor domestic violence law (In most states now if you and your girl are arguing and the police show up, one of you have to go to jail )

This is taking it away without a jury conviction. I think that there should be a jury conviction.

and anyone who has been prescribed drugs for mental or emotional reason (including zoloff and prozac) INCLUDING THE TROOPS BACK FROM IRAQ are not allowed to own firearms.

Do you have a source for this one? I've heard of many firearm owners who are on those, I think it's only if they are diagnosed as a "danger"

 

[Two Cold Soakers]

The fact is I committed a crime years ago and went to jail.... I am now classified in society as ex-felon.
Question:
Is there any legal way to own a firearm?

Look into getting your violation expunged. If you are indeed "rehabilitated", get the felony expunged. Firearms ownership has nothing to do with this. The court needn't know WHY you are pursuing expungement. If they ask, there are many more convincing reasons than firearms ownership.

If I recall correctly, convicted felons are denied a number of rights and privileges.

If firearms ownership is the only reason you seek having a felony expunged, I'd question the reasons for your motivation and quality of rehabilitation. Felons have been determined by their actions to be "less than" citizens. I don't agree with that in totality, but you need to convince the court you are rehabilitated.

Sounds like a job for an attorney.
Let us know how it works out.


EDIT TO ADD

For the record under Federal Law anyone with a misdemeanor domestic violence law (In most states now if you and your girl are arguing and the police show up, one of you have to go to jail ) and anyone who has been prescribed drugs for mental or emotional reason (including zoloff and prozac) INCLUDING THE TROOPS BACK FROM IRAQ are not allowed to own firearms.

You sir are WRONG, and it seems to me that you are looking for something other than an answer to your original question.

Good Day.

 

[Trebor]

Does anyone know what state I could move to where I could be legal.

It doesn't matter what state you move to as much as it matters what state you were convicted of the felony in.

My understanding is that the only way you can get firearms rights restored is if you get your rights restored from the state where you were convicted.

Some states have a process for this. It may be expungement, it may require a pardon (good luck), or it may be called something else.

But, from what I understand, even if you move to a different state, you have to get your conviction expunged (reserved/whatever) from the state where you were convicted.

The new state doesn't have the authority to reserve a conviction from another state.

And, if your conviction is at the Federl level, you ar SOL as there is no funding for the program to restore firearms rights to Federal felons.

The best advice is quit asking for advice on something as important as this on the interest.

You need to find an attorney in the state where you where convicted and ask him about the process.

And don't try to do the process without an attorney as it may be something you only get one chance at doing. Get it wrong, even for a proceduarl reason, and that might be your only shot.

 

[Frank Ettin]

tgp, just for the record, I'm not going to get worked up about felons losing their 2nd Amendment rights. That's what goes with committing the crime. And I know of no place in the United States where you could, without doing anything, legally possess a firearm. Your disability is a matter of federal law.

But if you want to fix things, you won't get anywhere on the Internet. You need to find a good lawyer and hire him to help you try to get your rights resorted. No one here can do it for you.