Gun shipping requirements for hunting

[feedthehogs]

I've done a search of this site and saw various answers and guesses but apparently even though its not against federal law to ship a gun to yourself in another state for hunting purposes, none of the shipping carriers will do it.
I've talked to both UPS and USPS both at local hubs and at their customer service.

I'd like to know from someone who ACTUALLY has done this recently as some of the searched posts say that you could, but I've encountered you can't. What were the procedures or regs that you could find for either carrier that allowed you if you could.

The USPS online info is about as clear as mud and the national customer service people are just as lame. UPS says no despite no laws against it.

Both say only to licensed dealers. Which is somewhat an answer I get doing a google search. Still there seem to be some who say they do it, just no definitive procedures.

Again this has nothing to do with federal regs.

And for the inquisitive who always ask why, this year before going hunting I have to fly into NYC and stay in Manhattan for a week on business before I fly out west and I don't want to deal with carrying a rifle case in and out of the city, hotel, leaving it in the hotel, etc.

 

[MtnCreek]

I think you're asking too many questions of the shipping firm. Put it in a hard case, box it up and take it to USPS (assuming it's a long gun).

 

[Sav .250]

Just make sure you get it right.

 

[dogtown tom]

feedthehogs
The USPS online info is about as clear as mud and the national customer service people are just as lame.

"Clear as mud"?
I strongly disagree.

USPS regs are VERY clear.
From the USPS Domestic Mail Manual
http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm#1198527

12.3 Rifles and Shotguns
Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 12.1.1e and 12.1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 12.1.1e

1. It is legal.
2. Counter clerks can't be expected to know every Federal regulation.
3. Why in the world would you tell them you are mailing a rifle or shotgun? No regulation requires you to do that.

 

[feedthehogs]

First if you insure the item, you have to declare the contents. Lying is not an option for me no matter what the regs are.

Tom,
I did the search on the USPS site and came up with 590 possible hits on Shipping a long gun or rifle. I clicked on your link but after 6 pages of scrolling down, I clicked it off. Thanks for the work.

Not my idea in this day and age of web development of having those regs all on one page and not come up as individual topics in their search engine.

Poor web design.

I also didn't expect the clerks to know, but do expect the customer service supervisors to know their own shipping regs. I had quoted on the phone and shown the counter people the ATF statement that shipping a rifle to yourself interstate is okay in care of someone as long as they don't open it. They didn't care. both in person and on phone customer service said no.

While its legal they won't do it. They claim not to know anything about the 68 GCA, local laws and regs and the rest of those in their statement and I'm not about to print out 30 pages and try and go thru it with a civil servant.

That's why I asked if someone has ACTUALLY done it and what procedures they used.

 

[NavyLCDR]

How are you getting to your hunting location? Why not just take the gun with you?

 

[KeithK]

FeedtheHogs
Yes you can ship a rifle thru the USPS, but as someone who works for the USPS as a mechanic I would ship Fedex. The answer to most questions about legality you can find by google the ATF FAQ, go in the ATF questions to non-licensce, you will find you can use USPS and common carrier (UPS, FEDEX). I would post a link but just started using a Apple laptop and aint figured out how to right click copy and paste with the apple.

As for why the Fedex is better, USPS is good on large amounts of packages, but our tracking sucks, the machinery is something to see, we put Ford assembly plants to shame, but with that large volume you can't expect tracking to be perfect, we are getting better but UPS and FEDEX are better there. UPS can ship firearms but usually they want it shipped only from license to license (FFL). Fedex does not have that requirement and is the best for what I have found. You will find on the ATF FAQ that you can ship the rifle to yourself or a friend for you to use for your hunting trip, just make sure and declare, insure and use their tracking. Good luck this hunting season.

Keith

As far as not telling them it's a rifle, the USPS and ATF regs say you must declare it is a firearm and you can NOT mark the package as such. Me I follow the law and it usually makes it easier.

 

[dogtown tom]

feedthehogs First if you insure the item, you have to declare the contents. Lying is not an option for me no matter what the regs are.

Who said you had to lie?

1. Weigh & measure your package.
2. Print out and pay for your USPS mailing label on line. Nowhere will you have to "declare the contents".
3. Drop it off at the post office.

It isn't that difficult unless you make it difficult.

...I did the search on the USPS site and came up with 590 possible hits on Shipping a long gun or rifle. I clicked on your link but after 6 pages of scrolling down, I clicked it off. Thanks for the work....

Well......I quoted you the exact USPS regulation regarding the legality of mailing rifles or shotguns. Here it is again:
"12.3 Rifles and Shotguns
Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 12.1.1e and 12.1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 12.1.1e"

Not my idea in this day and age of web development of having those regs all on one page and not come up as individual topics in their search engine. Poor web design.

I agree.

I also didn't expect the clerks to know, but do expect the customer service supervisors to know their own shipping regs. I had quoted on the phone and shown the counter people the ATF statement that shipping a rifle to yourself interstate is okay in care of someone as long as they don't open it. They didn't care. both in person and on phone customer service said no.

Been there, done that. I stood my ground until they got a postal inspector on the phone.....who told them i was correct.

While its legal they won't do it. They claim not to know anything about the 68 GCA, local laws and regs and the rest of those in their statement and I'm not about to print out 30 pages and try and go thru it with a civil servant.

Well..............then why are you posting? We don't have a secret code word that makes your postal clerk follow the law and USPS regulation. You have to carry some of the weight yourself.

That's why I asked if someone has ACTUALLY done it and what procedures they used.

I HAVE DONE IT.
I mail rifles, shotguns and handguns every week. With the exception of handguns, I DO NOT tell the USPS what is in the box. (only licensed dealers and manufacturers can mail a handgun and are required to submit a USPS Form 1508 when doing so)

 

[dogtown tom]

KeithK
As far as not telling them it's a rifle, the USPS and ATF regs say you must declare it is a firearm ...

No such requirement under any Federal law, ATF or USPS regulation when mailing a rifle or shotgun.

 

[NavyLCDR]

As far as not telling them it's a rifle, the USPS and ATF regs say you must declare it is a firearm

So, then, you will be able to post these regulations that require this declaration, no?

 

[Sam1911]

First if you insure the item, you have to declare the contents.

That's odd...I ship things very freqently through UPS, almost always with several hundred $$$ worth of insurance. I've never been asked -- once -- what the item was.

 

[feedthehogs]

Success at the USPS.

In researching this further its apparent that different regions of shipping companies either follow different rules or the employees of those companies don't bother to worry about rules.

The UPS hub in my area for the last 20 years for me has always asked if a package was insured what was in it. When asked why by me for the first time it was stated that is was to see if the package was boxed correctly for content protection. Apparently my hub has a high incident rate of damaged packages as evidenced by what they look like when I get delivery.

Once they know its a firearm, they refuse to ship to anyone but an ffl.

Fed ex is out for me as the local ground hub workers are impossible to deal with and fed ex overnight is way too expensive.

USPS was presented today with their rules and atf's rules on shipping for hunting reason to no avail.

Not one to give up easily I drove around till I found one smaller post office manned by two wonderful older ladies that asked no question of content when I insured it. Only asked if it was dangerous goods.

Moral of the story is even though rules are clear, interpretation by employees who have no grasp of comprehension is a problem and just drive around till you find a pair of nice older ladies who are more concerned with the rain we're having.

Navy, reason for all this is in my original post otherwise flying with it would have been a non issue as in the past.

 

[Sam1911]

Great job! Now, enjoy your trip!

 

[NavyLCDR]

feedthehogs,

I would suggest you file a complaint with the postmaster general about the Post Offices that would not accept your rifle for mailing. They are violating Federal law by not accepting a legal piece of mail.

 

[feedthehogs]

Not worth the trouble filing a complaint if I can find a way around internal dysfunction as I did, life is much simpler.

As I've experienced in the past, telling idiots that they are idiots doesn't work. What does work is finding their many weaknesses and exploiting them legally and walking away with a hugh smile all the while they are wondering what just happened.

 

[dprice3844444]

just get one of those golf club travel containers ,put gun in it in a small case and fill it with clothes.declare it at airline,put tag inside.fly southwest

 

[EOD Guy]

As far as not telling them it's a rifle, the USPS and ATF regs say you must declare it is a firearm

27CFR §478.31, requires notification when shipping to an unlicensed person via common or contract carrier. The USPS is neither a common nor a contract carrier.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Not worth the trouble filing a complaint if I can find a way around internal dysfunction as I did, life is much simpler.

Which is exactly why internal dysfunction continues to exist. Because good old fashioned American apathy allows it to continue unhindered. As long as we can work around it, it's not a problem, right? Then we continue to sit in our warm, comfy rocking chairs at home, until the next time we need to use our work around to accomplish something, and we discover that because of the apathy of everyone around us, equal to ours, that our work around has disappeared leaving us holding our package wondering what the heck happened.

 

[dogtown tom]

navylcdr

quote:
Originally posted by feedthehogs
not worth the trouble filing a complaint if i can find a way around internal dysfunction as i did, life is much simpler.

which is exactly why internal dysfunction continues to exist. Because good old fashioned american apathy allows it to continue unhindered. As long as we can work around it, it's not a problem, right? Then we continue to sit in our warm, comfy rocking chairs at home, until the next time we need to use our work around to accomplish something, and we discover that because of the apathy of everyone around us, equal to ours, that our work around has disappeared leaving us holding our package wondering what the heck happened.

+1

.

 

[MtnCreek]

Is USPS required by law to accept legal mail?

 

[feedthehogs]

Navy and Tom,

Equating a blanket apathy attitude to the unwillingness to confront and explain to those who should know their jobs, how to do them is just silly. Its a waste of time, energy and resources.

In life you have to learn to pick your battles and while I don't owe either of you an explanation, I will offer the following.

Over the last 15 years I have filed numerous complaints to my local post office and the postmaster general for numerous issues with the mail in my local. Nothing changed. It doesn't matter that they deliver mail in my neighborhood to the wrong houses constantly. Its a good thing we know each other and don't snoop as more than twice a week my wife delivers mail addressed to others delivered to us.

Dealing with the post office is like dealing with a cage full of monkeys. Every time you go by, you just hope no one throws a handful of feces on you.

Good luck to you both on your crusade to cure the US's terminal case of dumb ______. (fill in the blank)

 

[NavyLCDR]

Is USPS required by law to accept legal mail?

http://pe.usps.com/cpim/ftp/manuals/dmm300/full/mailingStandards.pdf

1.6 General Mailability and Right of Refusal
Articles presented for mailing must be prepared under the general and specific standards in this document. The USPS accepts properly packaged and marked parcels but reserves the right to refuse nonmailable or improperly packaged articles or substances. Additional or other standards can apply to overseas military Post Offices and international mail.

8.11 Refusal of Nonmailable Matter
USPS employees may refuse an article for mailing if the content of the article is described by the mailer or otherwise revealed to be nonmailable.

8.12 Authorizing Mailability
A postmaster may decide whether articles and substances other than written, printed, or graphic matter are nonmailable and, where appropriate, is authorized to refuse to accept for mailing such matter determined to be nonmailable. The mailer may seek a review of the postmaster’s decision by the PCSC. The mailer may file a written appeal of the PCSC ruling with the USPS Recorder, Judicial Officer, with a copy or description of the determination or ruling. The rules of procedure for the determination of such appeals are in 39 CFR 953.