Gun-shop etiquette

[Sam1911]

but if it's such a problem why not say a quick something about the common problems up front? Such as saying, "Please don't dry fire and if you'd like to see the internals let me know and I'd be glad to help you.", before handing a customer a gun.

You are at least partially right. A good shop would have such things as part of a standard conversation when handing over any gun to a customer -- because every customer's experiences have been a little different and not everyone truly knows better.

Gun store employees/owners shouldn't assume that their customers know all the rules and wait for the customer to make a mistake before giving them the information they need.

On the other hand, I doubt most gun shop customers would take such a liberty, so it might have caught him a bit off guard.

Think of it this way: Guns come in many different designs. Some are nearly foolproof to break down and assemble correctly. Others are a bit less foolproof. Some, are tricky. A few will just about require the assistance of a shop manual, an astrologer, and a chiropractor by the time you've got it running again.

Steps required to get one back together might cause parts breakage if done to another. Some sort of could go back together a couple of ways -- one of which is right and the others jam parts and/or disable the gun. And some (our beloved 1911s for example) are almost purpose-built to trick the uninitiated into ruining the finish with a hard-to-avoid slip of a lever.

For all he knows you've owned 37 of these and keep them in museum condition. Or ... maybe in 2 seconds you'll inadvertently knock $200 off the price he can get for that gun.

An analogy might be this: Go to a car dealership. Walk around the lot opening doors, moving the seats, adjusting mirrors, peeking beneath the hood, etc. The salesman is going to be all smiles. If he walks away and comes back 15 minutes later and you've yanked the wheels and calipers to check for uneven break wear, or pulled the valve covers off the engine, you'll have a hot time explaining yourself. On the other hand, explain that you're very interested and want to have your own professional mechanic do a detailed inspection -- the dealer will be happy to oblige.

it sounds like from these replies that most stores would have a problem with a customer doing anything other than feeling the weight, grip, and looking down the sights.

That's a pretty safe place to start. Just extend common courtesy and ask before you do anything more. Trust me, he DOES NOT WANT every person who handles that gun to strip it down -- and if you're interested in buying it, you don't want every other customer who ever looked at it to have done so, either.

The closer you get to putting cash in his pocket for a specific item, the deeper your investigation should reasonably go.

This is the information that I was looking for and it answers my question, thanks for the replies.

Sure thing! Good luck with future purchases!

 

[milq]

I prefer to keep things local as well, usually one of my 3 preferred LGS is spot on with internet sales or even a bit cheaper (after accounting for a $20 -$25 transfer fee and shipping).

One of those LGS is debating about increasing transfer fees as his shop is very small (and new) and he has lost some revenue to internet sales. We sit very close to the IL/IN state line and he also has agreements with a couple of IN shops that he will transfer with for free.

 

[hey_poolboy]

Often I'll buy parts and accessories on line, not always. I have never purchased a gun online, but I do browse just to double check prices. Fortunately we have a LGS that is amazing. HUGE selection, and very good prices.
On things like guns, appliances, etc. I want to buy from brick and mortar and know the guy behind the counter. Of course I also work for a small business, and know the feeling of being "shopped" just so the customer can go buy it online for $5 cheaper.

 

[Laf'n'Larry]

My Point of View

I've been in retail for a number of years. I don't deal with guns, but there are some similarities that apply across all lines and situations. Generally, I agree with Sam1911 on this one. Had you telegraphed your desires and intentions in the first store, the way you did in the second shop, the first guy would probably have been a peach too.

Truth is most people that work in small retailers and some of us that work in big retailers love the jobs and love to help people who are interested in the same things we are. I enjoy helping my customers and it boosts sales (No, I'm not on commission, but it is my job to sell the product.) I enjoy demonstrating products it lets me strut my stuff and point out worthwhile design and materials features. Often I can save a customer money or increase their satisfaction by going over a product with them to make sure that it is a good fit and match for their goals. Having said that, I am fully aware that some of my peers and occasionally an owner will be interested in the activity for themselves alone and see the customer only in terms of potential profit. When you see that, it is best to just leave.

As to whether to shop big box or internet, I work in a national chain, but, well I'm a fan of local. Most of the time I save money at the local shop when drive time, shipping, transfer fees, etc. are included. I almost always get better information and advice. For example on my first handgun purchase, a Beretta Neos, I went to a big box and saved almost $40.00 over the asking price of my local shop. The young guy at the big box knew to safety check the gun before handing it to me and he filled out the forms correctly. But, he must not have much knowledge of guns, at least not the Neos. When I asked him what the gnurled nut under the barrel was for, he explained that it was to attach the optional tri-pod like the Ruger Charger sitting on the counter behind him. Of course as soon as I got home and read the manual I found that it was the take down nut that held the barrel to the slide and trigger assemblies.

Later I had a candid talk with the local gun guy. He chuckled about it, while I tried to not look too embarrassed. As it turned out that day, he confided that if I had given him a chance to offer, he could have gotten pretty close to the big box deal. By combining a discount on the gun and throwing in a brick of ammo, he could have gotten within 10 bucks of the big box. The gas to big box and back was over 10 bucks. I became a fan of, if not all local gun shops, then at least that local shop that day. It a decision that keeps on giving. The last trip, I paid 10 dollars for 8 dollars worth of stuff and got 5 dollars worth of guidance on that purchase and saved 15 dollars in the future because of his guidance on a planned accessories.

I'm expressing this in terms of dollars worth and it the actual dollars spent are all you consider, then no the local can compete with big box and internet. Local shops pay a higher cost per item than big box and have too high cost of overhead to beat the big box price. But, if you find value in some of the intangibles then the local shop wins hands down. There is for me real value is in being able to talk to people that are knowledgeable and that care about their sport/activity enough to share that knowledge with me. All that it requires is that we customers spend enough to keep the doors open.

 

[Grey_Mana]

Depending on who your dealer is you might want to try to cut a deal using cash...i have gotten some really good deals w/ this method...larger dealers wont play this game though. I sell most of my guns online because I have yet to get what I should from a dealer, but I buy almost all of my guns locally.

If you are advocating a cash-based transaction where the seller skips paying taxes, be aware that is illegal in America.

 

[TH3180]

If you are advocating a cash-based transaction where the seller skips paying taxes, be aware that is illegal in America.

If the seller doesn't pay taxes that's not my concern. I pay cash for almost everything I buy. Sometimes I get a better price sometimes I don't. I believe I am paying tax when ever I buy anything from a store. If they don't use that money to pay there tax bill, I don't care they are the ones breaking the law not me.

 

[dalv]

Tax

FWIW a couple of my LGS give a break (or charge more) for credit card transactions due to the cost MC/Visa charges them. Doesn't mean they are not paying the state - just saving the cost of using plastic.

Either way, I'm all for the local shops. If we go big box...won't be long before we don't have a choice.

BUY LOCAL it's somebody's job your saving and the big boxes won't even feel it.

 

[X-Rap]

My final words on a gun deal are cash out the door, yes I know about taxes and if the seller is willing to eat that part on my side then fine , I am not advocating that he not pay taxes to our most frugal government for a minute.

 

[Davek1977]

Personally I am offended when somebody wants me to match anothers price, that just tells me that their motive is all about them and not having a relationship with a small local company

I disagree....When I buy a gun, it IS "all about me" and it SHOULD be. I don't buy guns to keep other people in business, nor do I willingly pay more for the exact same product just because it makes some people feel good to do so. I have a limited income, and I, of course, want to stretch that income as far as I can. If the LGS wants 150 bucks more than the big box store or online retailer...all other things being equal....I won't buy from them. I won't outright announce what I can get the gun for elsewhere, but will definitely let the counterperson know I'm shopping around for a good deal, and that I'm no stranger to the gun or guns I'm looking at, or what they usuaully retail for. If the LGS can't come up with a reasonable number, I'll buy it elsewhere. I'm not a huge fan of Walmart or Cabelas, but I also detest the attitude of some small shops who basically expect you to pay more BECAUSE they are the "little guy"....and therefore expect your charity, more or less. I'm not "donating" 15-20% (or consdierably more, in some cases) to the local shop "because he has a hard time" making any profit. If you can't operate a business without raising your prices considerably higher than ALL your local (or online) competition, thats on you, not me. Five percent above the big stores?? Ten percent? Yeah, I might buy @ the lgs at those price differences. However, some LGS's gouge, pure and simple, no way to sugarcoat it. For example, last March, I bought a WASR from a small family owned shop....who also has a decent web presence. I paid $424, out the door, for my gun, and felt it was a fair price. I had some business to attend to in a town 40 miles away....and stopped in @ their LGS the SAME DAY. WASR's there...in the most basic configuration, were marked at $750, BEFORE taxes!!!!. Seeing prices like that, I didn't bother asking what their "cash discount" was, because unless it was over 40%, they couldn't meet the price I had paid an hour earlier elsewhere!! Its hard not to be a bit sour towards some LGS's when I see things like that. In that hour, one busioness earned me as a customer...and another insured I'd probably never grace their shop with my presence again.

However, I think its a bit overboard to be "offended" if a potential paying customer gives you the chance to capture a sale you might not have gotten otherwise. Would you rather make $30 on a gun today, or $50 in six months, even at the cost of losing a potential REPEAT customer? Personally, I think asking to price match shows the customer IS willing to work with the "little guy"....so long as the little guy is somewhat reasonable. I'll reinnerate yet again...when I buy a gun, its a special moment for me. I've done my research, shopped around, compared and contrasted, etc....usuaully for WEEKS ahead of my actual purchase. When I put this much legwork into something, darn right its about me, and not about the guy behind the counter. He may sell 10 guns a day....I buy that many in five years sometimes. MY satisfaction comes first in such a situation, hands down, and I think its silly to assume it should be otherwise.

 

[Gouranga]

My final words on a gun deal are cash out the door, yes I know about taxes and if the seller is willing to eat that part on my side then fine , I am not advocating that he not pay taxes to our most frugal government for a minute

Yeah the taxes are a big part but also with cash he does not have to pay a finance charge or percentage as he would with a credit card. He does not have to run through whatever hoops or charges may be accompanied by processing a check. He simply has to put the cash in the drawer and say "Have a nice day" and his part of the transaction is done. The larger the sum of cash the simpler you made that store owners day. So getting a better deal for cash is certainly a reasonable thing.

On breaking a gun down. I will ask a shop owner to do this on a weapon only if I am just about ready to purchase the firearm. Taking it down is part of normal maintenance. How it is done and more importantly how easy it is done is a part of the story to buying the weapon. Seeing how the shop owner is the one who owns the firearm, knows the firearm, etc, I will ask them to demonstrate it for me. It lessens the chance of any damage due to improperly attempting it. I do not think it is an unreasonable request. That being said I think it is unreasonable to ask him to break down half his items in stock. The owners I have chatted with to date, are fine with that. Which is why I deal with those stores.

As for the pricing, I think there are tactful ways of doing this. Would i mention it to the local gun store owner? Heck yeah. I like doing business with him and I will give him every opportunity to win over another guy especially if I have to drive farther to get there. I would not rub it in his face or act like he was a jerk. Just simply bring up the price and store it was quoted/advertised at and ask him if he could get closer to that price. If he can, that's great, if not, no worries. Customer service pushes me towards a store more than pricing. Don't get me wrong pricing is important but really if the owners is a nimrod, I don't care what he prices things at. I simply am not going to reward crap customer service.

 

[mcdonl]

The best thing that ever happened to me was finding a private FFL holder. He can get me guns and supplies cheaper that online, he makes a few bucks and he passes on deals. I have sent all my of gun buying friends to him, and almost all of them have purchased additional guns from him. It works great.

The last time I was in Cabelas... I litteraly had to take a number. That was pathetic. I am looking to purchase a firearm, not bologna. The problem is primers are behind the gun counter and I have to wait while someone looks at every pistol in the store.

I did find a GREAT LGS but it is about 1.5 hours from me. I found them on-line, their prices were GREAT and now I just need to find the time to drive there and pick up my brand new Saiga .223 which I got, out the door for $365... That is the same as the onling prices but no shipping and transfer fee.

 

[merlinfire]

There are at least 2 local gunshops that regularly are within 10% of what I can find online before shipping and ffl fees. I buy from them exclusively.

 

[esquare]

I don't think it's ever a problem to ask - they are in business and you want to buy, so if a clerk gets all snippy about it, that's their problem. If they don't want to give a discount, they can say that in a polite and professional manner.

As far as gun shops not being able to compete with online stores, I think that is not true at all. Several of the places I look at can compete very well with Buds. Those aren't big stores either. Several others have awful prices, and these are the ones that don't like getting asked for deals either. I actually caught one of these clerks looking up Buds website when I asked for a quote on a gun. He looked up the gun, then marked it up by $75 and then added 'shipping and handling' even though Buds listed free shipping on it, and a transfer fee. This was for a reasonably priced .22 revolver - something every gun store should keep in stock.

If you really think about it, local gun shops have it better than other retail stores in many cases when it comes to competing with mail order/phone order/online order. They have a federally protected advantage based on interstate transfer laws (so either a gun shop will make a sale or make a transfer fee for every gun coming into the state) and the barrier to entry is a lot higher than other retail stores (having to get an FFL on top of the rest of the permits and requirements) which means less competition. They sell a product that pretty much doesn't have 'returns' and they are in an industry where federal regulation makes comdomitization much harder, so they enjoy higher MSRPs than they might if it weren't protected. Now, of course, they have to put up with the ATF and crazy laws and a bunch of other things too, but I just want to point out that it's not ALL bad for the LGS.

 

[avs11054]

I just don't go into the local stores, with the exception of cabelas, for the most part. The stores in my area are so far above what guns go for online, that I wouldn't even ask them to come down in price. I know there's no way they'd come down that far. Plus, there has yet to be one gun that I haven't been able to find exactly what I want on gunbroker. Stores inventory is limited, where as online you can find virtualy any gun you want

 

[daorhgih]

My favorite gun shop.

He has a LARGE-PRINT list of rules posted as to behavior and actions in his shop. The first rule, labeled, "Rule 1" is on the door: "Is your gun clear and empty? Prove it here." And a 50-gal. can of sand stands outside the door. And other rules are posted behind the cabinets. Easy to follow. HE WILL NOT LET ANY CUSTOMER TAKE A VIEW INTO THE BORE UNLESS HE CLEARS AND LOCKS THE ACTION HIMSELF. He also has a volunteer gun-guy who spends most of his time in the internet. Kush job! My dealer's prices are current! I like that. I can reference any on-line ad or deal or proposition and know that he can find it and match it, if he chooses to match it. He is more than fair. I'd call him reputable. Dao

 

[minutemen1776]

Interesting topic. I buy a lot of guns, both new and used. I also like to buy local when I can. Given that I have a taste for the odd and the old, online vendors and auctions are where I get most of my guns. Still, that gives my LGS an extra $25 each time for handling the paperwork, and it's not as though I'm buying something he has to sell anyway. If he had it, I'd likely be buying from him.

New guns are somewhat different. I first shop locally and generally abide by something like the 10% rule mentioned previously. In some cases, though, I've found that buying locally can cause unwanted problems. In one case, I asked my LGS if he could get me a particular .410 shotgun. He gave me his price, I agreed to it without haggling, and then we waited for it to arrive. When it did and I paid, the LGS owner griped that he'd profited LESS than if I'd done a transfer and paid him his $25. :banghead: There's just no pleasing some people. In another case, I asked two different shops if they could get me a Ruger Mark II Government Target model rimfire pistol (this was when they were still being made) and a set of Hogue wood grips for it. Though I was on my own easily able to locate an online vendor for this exact pistol (in stock), one LGS owner could never find one to order for me. After he gave up, I went to a second shop, and it took nearly a MONTH to get the pistol I wanted, and he never came through on the Hogue grips. If I'd just done an online purchase, I would have had the gun and the grips in a week's time. That left me wondering why I was paying more for the "service" of the LGS.

 

[bobleeswagger]

I disagree....When I buy a gun, it IS "all about me" and it SHOULD be. I don't buy guns to keep other people in business, nor do I willingly pay more for the exact same product just because it makes some people feel good to do so. I have a limited income, and I, of course, want to stretch that income as far as I can. If the LGS wants 150 bucks more than the big box store or online retailer...all other things being equal....I won't buy from them. I won't outright announce what I can get the gun for elsewhere, but will definitely let the counterperson know I'm shopping around for a good deal, and that I'm no stranger to the gun or guns I'm looking at, or what they usuaully retail for. If the LGS can't come up with a reasonable number, I'll buy it elsewhere. I'm not a huge fan of Walmart or Cabelas, but I also detest the attitude of some small shops who basically expect you to pay more BECAUSE they are the "little guy"....and therefore expect your charity, more or less. I'm not "donating" 15-20% (or consdierably more, in some cases) to the local shop "because he has a hard time" making any profit. If you can't operate a business without raising your prices considerably higher than ALL your local (or online) competition, thats on you, not me. Five percent above the big stores?? Ten percent? Yeah, I might buy @ the lgs at those price differences. However, some LGS's gouge, pure and simple, no way to sugarcoat it. For example, last March, I bought a WASR from a small family owned shop....who also has a decent web presence. I paid $424, out the door, for my gun, and felt it was a fair price. I had some business to attend to in a town 40 miles away....and stopped in @ their LGS the SAME DAY. WASR's there...in the most basic configuration, were marked at $750, BEFORE taxes!!!!. Seeing prices like that, I didn't bother asking what their "cash discount" was, because unless it was over 40%, they couldn't meet the price I had paid an hour earlier elsewhere!! Its hard not to be a bit sour towards some LGS's when I see things like that. In that hour, one busioness earned me as a customer...and another insured I'd probably never grace their shop with my presence again.

However, I think its a bit overboard to be "offended" if a potential paying customer gives you the chance to capture a sale you might not have gotten otherwise. Would you rather make $30 on a gun today, or $50 in six months, even at the cost of losing a potential REPEAT customer? Personally, I think asking to price match shows the customer IS willing to work with the "little guy"....so long as the little guy is somewhat reasonable. I'll reinnerate yet again...when I buy a gun, its a special moment for me. I've done my research, shopped around, compared and contrasted, etc....usuaully for WEEKS ahead of my actual purchase. When I put this much legwork into something, darn right its about me, and not about the guy behind the counter. He may sell 10 guns a day....I buy that many in five years sometimes. MY satisfaction comes first in such a situation, hands down, and I think its silly to assume it should be otherwise.

This.

 

[raveneap]

I've bought a lot of guns over the years and have a fairly good idea of what I'm willing to pay, new or used. If I'm in a LGS, I don't mention internet deals, but have no problem offering a lower price than the asking on a particular gun, that's just dickering. Sometimes an agreement is reached, sometimes not. No hard feelings either way.

 

[IBEWBULL]

The retail shops are not my cup of tea. I order from my two dealers who do not stock guns. On occasion I see a deal at Gander or even Cabelas on a used gun.
I don't barter any more. I can keep looking it is part of the fun.
I know what I am willing to pay. I don't NEED anything so there is no pressure on my end.

 

[Chuck41]

I use the local gun shops for my education. If I can buy a gun from them without too much excessive cost, that is what I really want to do.

I learn by visiting their shop, take their time by asking questions and handle the guns they keep in stock. It is only fair that I give them first chance to make a sale and I don't mind paying them a few extra bucks for the privilege of buying locally.

On the other hand, to go into a store without knowing what you can get that gun for elsewhere is really not very smart.

 

[danprkr]

The closest I'll come is to maybe says something like, "I can do it for ____, can you meet that?" I get my answer and buy or move on accordingly.

 

[Ronsch]

I do not know if it necessarily a point of etiquette...

I was in Wal-Mart a while back, looking at the Ruger LCP. It was advertised (and this was back in June of 2010, IIRC, for $279.99 + tax. When I got to the store, I was ready to buy, and the gun counter clerk starts telling me how he cannot sell the gun, as he has to get the manager to set up the camera equipment. I ask him politely "what camera equipment (this shows how infrequently I buy G&A from Wal-Mart)?" Young counter guy starts telling me about the store policy of video taping everyone who buys a handgun from the store.

I could not even answer. I was so angry, I just turned and left.

I went to my local curmudgeon shop (actually run by a nice old guy named Ray) and saw he had the LCP for $329.99 OTD. I asked if he could come down on his price OTD. He asked what I had in mind, and I explained what Wal-Mart was selling for. He (as is Ray's way) said he would just "cheat that guy over there (pointing at another customer) so I could get the savings...." He says that in fun, so no one freak out or anything...It is a running joke in his store. We met in the middle, after taxes, so for me it was a good deal.

My moral is to at least ask the owners or counter personnel at gun stores if they will meet/beat the competitor. At worst, they say no, or maybe they will or make a deal. It does not seem rude to ask, as opposed to just jumping out and blurting "XXX has it for $$$$, can you do better?

 

[Wedge]

I always ask if they give a cash discount.

This is a polite way of opening up negotiations, depending on the response of the person you ask - if they say, "Yes", then that usually means that they are willing to negotiate on the price.

For me, the bottom line is that if you ask for a discount, they might say, "Yes", but, if you don't ask for a discount, then the answer is for sure, "No".

+1, I have used this method. Works well on non-luxury items.

In jewelry and other luxury goods, I usually ask if they can do 15% off (or whatever is reasonable) and say id they can I will buy immediately. I've walked away disinterested, came back, offered to buy at some discount and then bought it. Since I don't need the item at all, and they don't want to sit on stock it usually works out pretty well.

And if you don't ask you won't know.

 

[Ryanxia]

I always ask, "What's the best you can do on this? Cash."

My big thing is the same it is for paintball, a lot of times local shops can't come close to internet prices, I won't pay a huge amount over but it's worth it to me to pay a little more to be able to hold something before I buy it, and to get it that day and not have to wait.

Plus I like to help out local businesses assuming they're not price gouging.
Posted via http://whowouldntlikethis.com

 

[DAP90]

I’m curious, do any firearm manufacturers sell direct to dealers?

In my industry, medical devices, it used to be primarily distributor based. Now, while distributors still exist, many companies are willing to sell direct to hospitals and clinics. Price has a great deal to do with that. It’s hard to be competitive when there’s a middleman adding their profit margin to the cost per unit.

If the distributors were cut out both the manufacturer and the dealers should be able to make a higher margin. With today’s technology it wouldn’t be hard. Believe me, there are a lot of little medical clinics out there.