Gun Shop Etiquette

[Jeff62]

Times have changed. I remember Jefferson Arms in Pine Bluff, Arkansas where the floors were oak planks and there was a circle of mix/match chairs in the middle of the shop where there was usually somebody to visit with. The coffee was proper strong and free. No styrofoam cup; glass mugs with some company name.
There was always a gunsmith available.

Jim Cornwell, Cornwell Arms, also ran an old school gun shop. I count him as a friend and I miss him.

I’m finding most shops don’t care to consider trades. I did find one in Warren, Arkansas. It’s not the end of the world just yet.

 

[dogtown tom]

He told me that’s what Staccato includes with the guns, which is a lie which was easily discovered by checking their website and making a quick call to them. If he told me it came with 3 magazines but for whatever reason he was only giving me one, then when questioned two I’d be okay with what he did. That’s not, however, what happened. What other LGS’ do has no bearing on what he did, especially since the dealer you referenced offered a reduced price, something he didn’t do.

The point I'm making is regardless of what Staccato includes, you accepted the firearm with one magazine at a price you found agreeable. Again, that's not dishonesty.


As far as what Staccato includes? That varies in my experience. But the only Staccatos I see are transfers direct from Staccato. Some models have included only two magazines.

 

[TomJ]

The point I'm making is regardless of what Staccato includes, you accepted the firearm with one magazine at a price you found agreeable. Again, that's not dishonesty.

something
As far as what Staccato includes? That varies in my experience. But the only Staccatos I see are transfers direct from Staccato. Some models have included only two magazines.

Good grief. That’s wrong. I accepted the firearm with the understanding that it included all magazines which came with it from the factory, as that’s what the owner of the LGS told me. I really don’t understand your confusion. When someone asks you a question and you knowingly tell them something which is not true, that’s a lie. That’s what occurred.

 

[Styx]

Good grief. That’s wrong. I accepted the firearm with the understanding that it included all magazines which came with it from the factory, as that’s what the owner of the LGS told me. I really don’t understand your confusion. When someone asks you a question and you knowingly tell them something which is not true, that’s a lie. That’s what occurred.

Next time do your research BEFORE you lay down your cash. I typically watch dozens of hours of YouTube videos, read countless firearm forum threads, look at the manufacturer's listing, look at prices on Gunbroker, ArmsList, Gun.Deals, and forum Market Places, etc before I make purchase.

I'd never spend $1k to almost $3k on any firearm unless I was well informed about it first. To @dogtown tom's point, the LGS offered you a product, and you agrees to the terms (1 mag). You were happy with the terms until you heard there was usually 2 mags. The LGS may have very well received the gun with only one mag (it's possible). On the otherhand, I see your point thar you asked them flat-out if it only came with one mag, and I'd be upset too if they did in fact lie. It's your fault for not researching ahead of time, and it is still possible that the LGS didn't lie.

 

[dogtown tom]

Good grief. That’s wrong. I accepted the firearm with the understanding that it included all magazines which came with it from the factory, as that’s what the owner of the LGS told me. I really don’t understand your confusion. When someone asks you a question and you knowingly tell them something which is not true, that’s a lie. That’s what occurred.

I'm not confused in the least. No matter what the salesman told you, you found the deal agreeable......correct?
If I were dropping the coin for a Staccato I damn sure would know what's included and the Staccato website shows that.

 

[TomJ]

For the past 23 years I’ve owned a successful business in a competitive industry. A large part of that is because when my customers ask me a question I answer them honestly. It has never occurred to me that when my customers ask me a question I should lie to them and then, when found out tell them it’s too bad as they found the deal agreeable when they relied on my lie. The legal term for this is fraudulent misrepresentation, and it’s wrong no matter how hard you try to justify it.

 

[dogtown tom]

For the past 23 years I’ve owned a successful business in a competitive industry. A large part of that is because when my customers ask me a question I answer them honestly. It has never occurred to me that when my customers ask me a question I should lie to them and then, when found out tell them it’s too bad as they found the deal agreeable when they relied on my lie. The legal term for this is fraudulent misrepresentation, and it’s wrong no matter how hard you try to justify it.

I don't lie to my customers either. But I'll bet you do expect a deal to be a deal with your own customers correct? Do you want them coming back later complaining that your competitor offered extras that you COULD HAVE INCLUDED....BUT YOU DIDN'T?

You weren't defrauded.
You agreed to the sellers terms and bought a pistol in the condition he offered for sale. You bought EXACTLY what you were offered.

He didn't sell you a used pistol, claiming it was new.....that would be misrepresentation and yes, fraudulent.

I gave you an example of a dealer who removed the third magazine from his Police Specials and you dismissed that as "since the dealer you referenced offered a reduced price, something he didn’t do."............how do you know your dealers pricing and sales strategy? I certainly don't tell customers why I price some guns the way I do and I doubt your Staccato dealer does either. YOU HAVE NO IDEA why your dealer offered that Staccato for sale with one magazine. Frankly, its none of the buyers business as it wasn't deceptive, fraudulent or secretive and you damned well knew you were buying exactly what was in front of you.

It was only AFTER you went home did you discover Staccatos ship with three mags to the dealer. But you didn't buy one of those, instead you made a deal for a Staccato with one magazine. It's entirely possible to buy a Staccato with ten magazines......but guess what? They aren't free, you pay extra.


Some dealers regularly "part out" BRAND NEW GUNS. It's not the least bit unusual for new in box Glock or Sig to be disassembled and the frame, slide/bbl assembly, magazines, box to be sold separately. A guy with a P80 frame doesn't need a Glock frame, all he wants is the bbl/slide assembly.
Do you think those that buy a Glock frame from that dealer come back later and complain that they didn't get a box?
Do you think guys buying a Sig FCU call Sig and whine about not getting the frame and barrel?

Good grief man.

 

[Plano11]

The issue I have now is the costs of transfer, some FFL now charge as much as $65 and shipping is not included.

 

[buck460XVR]

What I see represented here(on both sides of the counter) is the same etiquette/lack of etiquette I see everywhere nowadays. Same is true with the lack of knowledge by salespersons. Go to a restaurant and you see patrons treating wait staff like second rate citizens. In the same breath, wait staff have to look at your menu when you ask what comes with the entree. Seems bullying has taken the place of sensible negotiation and the staff that worked with you on your last visit has moved on to something different. Many times the reason is having to work with the public. We have evolved into a culture of no tolerance of the opinions of others and a lack of respect for the same. It's very obvious on forums like this and any store you walk into. Expecting others to make a change for the better before we do, ain't gonna happen. It starts with us.

 

[WisBorn]

The issue I have now is the costs of transfer, some FFL now charge as much as $65 and shipping is not included.

This to me is the Gunbroker curse. So many people are just buying everyday current production guns online sending them to a little FFL. Then expect them to do all the BS work for near nothing.
I would be simple. $100 for a transfer in $75 for a transfer out. $25 for a warranty transfer, unless it was bought from the shop then free. Plus shipping...
See @troy fairweather thread Favorite gun shop closing and tell me I'm wrong.

Yes, there are crooks in gun shops. If Glock sells a gen5 with three magazines it should come with 3 magazines.

 

[dogtown tom]

This to me is the Gunbroker curse. So many people are just buying everyday current production guns online sending them to a little FFL. Then expect them to do all the BS work for near nothing.
I would be simple. $100 for a transfer in $75 for a transfer out. $25 for a warranty transfer, unless it was bought from the shop then free. Plus shipping...

Wow. How much market research have you done?
If you were in Texas you would never have to worry about any of that BS work because you wouldn't see a single transfer. $100?

 

[WisBorn]

Wow. How much market research have you done?
If you were in Texas you would never have to worry about any of that BS work because you wouldn't see a single transfer. $100?

I think you missed the point.
People want services for free. And expect to order guns for near nothing.
I have bought five guns in less than a year. Paid fair prices and all from local dealers. Didn't beat the guys up to save a few bucks or search the web for the cheapest price to buy the same gun that I could buy from them.

If I was buying a collectable that is hard to find the dealers are happy to help me if I find it on GB.

 

[dogtown tom]

I think you missed the point.
People want services for free. And expect to order guns for near nothing...

Then what is your point?
In my fifteen years as an FFL I haven't met a customer yet that expects my service to be free.
Are you sure you know the difference between a transfer vs a purchase?

 

[wayneinFL]

I think you missed the point.
People want services for free. And expect to order guns for near nothing.
I have bought five guns in less than a year. Paid fair prices and all from local dealers. Didn't beat the guys up to save a few bucks or search the web for the cheapest price to buy the same gun that I could buy from them.

If I was buying a collectable that is hard to find the dealers are happy to help me if I find it on GB.

The transfer dealer I used to use in Fort Lauderdale- I wouldn't have seen Vladamir's dinky little pawn shop if they didn't do $25 transfers. I wouldn't even know it was there. I bought half a dozen firearms from him. Almost every power tool in my work van. A bicycle, concrete mixer, generator, chain saw, Fluke meter. Everybody at work met "The Mad Russian" at some point.

But, sure, I totally screwed him transferring guns. If he bought a scandium frame 1911 for $1100 and sold it to me for $1200, he would have made $100. I found one used for $600- he only got $25 for 15 minutes of writing it in and out of a book and making a phone call. But I wouldn't have bought a 1911 for $1200 in the first place. Nobody would have gotten got that $100 from me. He would have to pay for it, and pay interest to let it sit in his case until it turned over to someone else, because I'd still be sitting here with my $675.

A lot of small FFLs wouldn't be around if it weren't for transfers. If we jumped from 1967 to 2023 without all the government regulation, 90% of guns be Chinese stuff at Walmart, or Amazon dropping all the good ones at your house. The LGS would have gone the way of every other type of retailer in our country. The little local gun shop would be a niche retailer or a counter in the back of a hardware store or sporting goods store.

 

[Plano11]

This to me is the Gunbroker curse. So many people are just buying everyday current production guns online sending them to a little FFL. Then expect them to do all the BS work for near nothing.
I would be simple. $100 for a transfer in $75 for a transfer out. $25 for a warranty transfer, unless it was bought from the shop then free. Plus shipping...
See @troy fairweather thread Favorite gun shop closing and tell me I'm wrong.

Yes, there are crooks in gun shops. If Glock sells a gen5 with three magazines it should come with 3 magazines.

I think different kind of guns or part should be priced differently, a glock19 and a browning O/U shotgun should cost the same transfer fee.

 

[buck460XVR]

I think different kind of guns or part should be priced differently, a glock19 and a browning O/U shotgun should cost the same transfer fee.

In Wisconsin, because the state requires FFLs to use the state's DOJ data base instead of just the FBI data base for handguns, generally there is a extra $15 fee for a transfer. Thus, transfers for handguns are more than for long guns.

 

[jmorris]

If we jumped from 1967 to 2023 without all the government regulation, 90% of guns be Chinese stuff at Walmart, or Amazon dropping all the good ones at your house.

And now you know what kind of gun control they were shooting for (pun intended). They don’t need to ban them, just push production of everything over seas and ban importation….makes fewer of them and eliminates competition, keeping prices high.

 

[jeepnik]

Now that we’ve throughly abused FFL’s for their business practices let’s talk about some of the silly stuff employees do.
I’ve frequently watched gun countertop commandos provide poor to outright false information. It’s often a case where the employee and customer lack sufficient knowledge. I figure the shop owner is responsible for these situations.
Other times it’s an unscrupulous employee or even shop owner just trying to con the customer.
I’ve been known to step in and correct those who don’t have sufficient knowledge.

 

[PapaG]

OK. Customer comes in looking for a nice over/under. We have four, a set of Beretta skeet guns on consignment. Stickers say, “Retail, $2495. Unfired, as new, now $1895.”
Guy calls back threatening to sue for false advertising. “I’ve found one for $1995 new. Your $2495 is false.”
I laughed and asked him to listen to himself as I read the Beretta price list from our supplier. Then asked him if 1895 wasn’t better than 1995.
He never got either the point or the gun.
BTW, the set was ordered, paid for, and then never even opened. Just put on consignment. Can’t get much closer to NIB than that.
And, $2495 was the MSRP at that time.
Owner thought it was hilarious.