Gun Snobs lighten up!

[jcwit]

The thread is about being a snob, being a snob is all about price being the deciding factor.

Look at my Rolex compared to your Timex.

I can step up to a better brand and use it for life.

I hear this all the time, especially from the older shooters, it'll last a lifetime, and they're pushing 70, like thats a factor.

 

[Lastmohecken]

Well, I guess I am in the middle on this. I don't like those rich snobs, who look down on you, if you're not dressed just right, or you don't drive the higher dollar cars, own the high dollar guns, etc. My newest car is an 02 Grand Cherokee, and my old pickup is an 83 F250 4x4, and bluejeans and boots are my standard uniform, but still have opinions, and dislikes.

I am not going to knock somebody for their choice in guns, but if they ask me about a certain gun, I will tell them what I think, and if I think it's boarder line junk, then I will say so. If someone likes a particular gun, then fine, but if they are buying a new one, I may try to stear then towards another model, for their consideration anyway.

And good shooting can often be done with cheap crappy guns, and a good man with with a piece of junk will often beat a lesser shooter, with a higher dollar gun, and shooters with cheap guns, usually love to gloat when they wax someone shooting a high dollar gun. And it's the same with motorcycles.

But you take a good shooter, shooting a junk gun, and give him a good gun, and quite often he will shoot even better, but for someone who can't shoot, then it doesn't matter very much. As good shooters progress, they usually want better guns.

My taste in guns, often runs towards the premium guns, when I can afford them, or shall I say middle of the road guns anyway. I will be honest, I don't have much use for a Mossburg, because they seem clunky to me, and I have witnessed lots of manfuctions with them, and I have seen Hi-points fail, too, and I don't like the way they feel in my hand, operate, so I will not consider them, for myself, now give me an 870, or an old Model 12, and I am a little happier, give me an 1100 or a Browning A5 and I am lot happier, give me a higher dollar side by side, and I am even happier, and that's what I want to use, because I love the way they handle, and work. Same with pistols, Sure a Rock Island 1911 will probably work and shoot, but it is not anywhere close to a fine tuned Wilson combat 1911, and that is what I want to use.

Generally, I have noticed that people that shoot a lot, usually generate to the better guns, but of course you will see people with money, that can't shoot, start with the better guns, because they can, and for that I don't blame them, but they don't need to be a snob about it.

 

[Manco]

I don't think there is a place for snobbery in any hobby or pursuit. While it should ideally be true that anybody who is truly interested is not going to be turned off by a bunch of snobs, don't underestimate the effects of social pressure, which may include not wanting to associate oneself with a bunch of snobs by joining their ranks as a gun owner.

In my other fields of interest, namely amateur astronomy and home theater, beginners who may have purchased overly cheap equipment (or even expensive equipment from major brands) that underperforms are often shown the light (in the most encouraging manner) simply by allowing them to use one's own decent equipment. The effect is usually immediate as the difference can be readily perceived, even by beginners. That's one point I want to make, and another is that few would criticize those who have relatively inexpensive equipment that is known to perform well by most standards, unless they want to be considered snobs. In these fields, for the most part performance and value trump image and brand loyalty.

The question regarding gun owners and Hi-Point firearms is where the latter fits in regarding price and performance, given the points I made above. If they function significantly more poorly than mainstream firearms, then I suppose it would be fair to call them cheap junk. On the other hand, if their performance is decent by most standards, especially for the price, then I suppose that many gun owners are snobs at worst, and ignorant of or prejudiced against the Hi-Point brand at best. Sadly, at least based on what I've heard (admittedly having no experience with Hi-Point firearms myself), it seems likely that many gun owners are snobs. I think we can do better than that!

 

[M2 Carbine]

Gun Snobs lighten up!

I've found that Gun Snobs are generally all Show and no Go.

I don't think I've ever had a loud mouth know-it-all at my range that wasn't borderline dangerous.


I love it when a Gun Snob is taken down.

A few years ago a friend and his wife were going for their Texas CHL, part of which is 50 timed shots back to 15 yards.
They didn't have a semi auto, so I loaned them a Makarov and taught the wife to shoot it.
When the range owner/CHL instructor inspected the guns he loudly bad mouthed the Makarov. Saying it's a inaccurate, jam-o-matic, and my friends would be lucky to qualify with such a poor gun. And the Makarov was going to hold up the other shooters because it will malfunction so much.
The lady just said, "I haven't had any trouble with it so far".

In fact, the lady who wasn't a "shooter", beat EVERYONE shooting that day, except her husband, who shot a perfect score with the Makarov.

To top it off, the shooters were held up by the range owners pimped out 1911 shot by a friend of the range owner, that repeatedly jammed.

 

[Offfhand]

Speaking of equipment snobs, birdwatchers (They prefer being called "birders"by the way, which is part of their snob vita.) tend to spend as much time comparing and commenting on each other's binoculars as looking at birds. Optics makers are well aware of this and it has become a major marketing ploy.

 

[buck460XVR]

.

While we do want to foster firearms ownership, at the same time, we don't want to coerce those that really are only marginally interested (or even marginally disinterested). If someone's conviction is so easily swayed by a bunch of yahoo's then it may be that it's not the right pursuit for them.






So at the end of the day, sure a bunch of people were <...stupid...>, its not surprising, people often are, but they are not responsible for this person quitting owning guns. The only person who is responsible for that is the person that chose to quit.

Most folks that try a new hobby are not "full blown enthusiasts", but are generally trying it because something sparked their interest in it or they were persuaded by a friend to try it. In the majority of the time, whether this person has positive or negative experiences when first starting out will determine whether or not they continue in it and progress to the "full blown enthusiasts" status. This is why we start kids(or other new fishermen) out fishing for panfish instead of trophy Muskies, so that they can experience the thrill of success early on. This is why we start youngsters out in baseball hitting a ball off a tee instead of standing in the box taking 90 mph fastballs. Even as adults, if we don't have fun and experience success with a new hobby.......... we quit. Chastising the new gun owner at the range about his choice of guns is no different than tellin' that 7 year old he is a loser 'cause he can't hit a curve ball. I'm thinking the new gun owner did not necessarily quit because gun ownership was not "his thing", but because he encountered a group of people he did not wish to be identified with. Odds are he did not want to have to be an azzhole and a snob spewing cheap comments in order to be a member of the gun owners club. We as gun owners in this country are still in the minority. We need to embellish new gun owners and anyone else with interest in our sport to continue it's growth and to protect our right to own guns. We should not drive those away that do not mirror our tastes in guns and type of shooting, or our degree of enthusiasm in the sport, but should encourage them to continue in the sport, so that some day they may do the same to someone else. Had the new gun owner been encouraged and had positive experiences in the shooting world, odds are he woulda progressed to the point where he would have gotten a better quality gun on his own, because his knowledge and desire to become more proficient told him....not because some azzhole "good ol' boys" at the gun range told him he was using a POS.

 

[bigalexe]

This thread is about snobs but it seems a good place to put these 2 comments I have on the topic.

1.) What criterion do I use to make a purchase
-Can I afford it?
-Is it more accurate than me?
-Will it take care of me if I take care of it?

The first point is rather obvious, I am not going to spend money on a hobby that I don't have. The second point is something that many people mull over, the absolute best accuracy they can get out of a gun. As far as I am concerned if the gun in ideal conditions shoots better than I do right now than it's fine. Why spend the money on something I will never use to its full potential? The third point is another thing, especially with guns I hear stuff like "beaten against a brick wall" "Slogged through Korean Jungles" and "Dowsed in Salt Water". Well guess what; I will never throw my guns against a brick wall, be fighting in Korea, or take my guns salt water fishing. I only need the gun to function for me. Again I ask why would I buy something I will never use?

2.) Snobbery and Percieved Snobbery
Due to my immediate family and upbringing I have been around many "Do-Good" kind of organizations. I have met people who support these organizations also. These people get perceived as being nice and good people.

Now due to my gun hobby I know many hunters and gun owners. These people get the perception of being insular whackos.

However if I were to fall and break my leg, I am calling one of my crazy gun nut whacko bambi murdering friends to come help me. The people I have met at my Conservation Club are the nicest people I know when it really matters. Sure they condemn the government, and drink a bit when they are there. But really when it matters, they come through and that's what matters.

Basically, stop judging people.

 

[Guncollector1982]

Im glad i live in the hills where i can shoot and not deal with anyones crap I avoid alot of these things. As for people being jerks, partly why i live in the hills Frankly ive never felt that in the presence of some that was shooting that it was any of my damned business what they were using and how or why they bought it nor is it theirs what i am using. I dont explain myself to people and i dont ask others to explain themselves.

 

[benEzra]

How many people here would "give up" something they wholeheartedly embraced because someone disparaged them or their equipment (which is the least thing you should worry about)? Lets be serious here for a moment, I've had more than my fair share of people giving me their opinion on my guns and gun ownership, and it hasn't made me go sell my collection and go and take up needlepoint.

Most people who are just starting out aren't committed to it. They're trying it out.

While we do want to foster firearms ownership, at the same time, we don't want to coerce those that really are only marginally interested (or even marginally disinterested). It's expensive, takes great courage and conviction, and responsibility to be a gun owner, especially if you carry on a daily basis. If someone's conviction is so easily swayed by a bunch of yahoo's then it may be that it's not the right pursuit for them.

It doesn't have to be expensive to be a gun owner, unless you listen to gun snobs that tell you that you might as well not own guns as own a Hi-Point or a Mosin-Nagant. Nor do you have to be committed to getting a CHL to own guns. It can be a spectrum, from casual ownership to ownership for HD to carry and competition, and you don't have to fit into anyone else's box.

on occasion it is less expensive to pay a bit more up front and save money by mot having to replace later. I can buy a screwdriver at Walmart that will work fine...for a while. I can step up to a better brand and use it for life. The Walmart version is the cheapest, but the better brand is less expensive.

Quite true, but if your budget constrains you to the $2 Walmart screwdriver or nothing, then the $2 screwdriver may be the best choice for you.

My wife's first gun was a $69 Phoenix Arms Raven. Was it the ideal defense gun? No way. But because of our financial condition at the time, it was that or nothing. Years later, she bought a Glock, but the prior money spent on the Raven wasn't wasted.

 

[EddieNFL]

The thread is about being a snob, being a snob is all about price being the deciding factor.

Snobs can be found on both sides of the argument.

 

[Fremmer]

You shoot what you have, know what I mean?

On the other hand, if someone is going to ask about buying a really cheap gun, there's nothing wrong with letting them know about alternatives. The cheap blowbacks can really mess you up if they don't like a round, and that's just the way it is. But you shoot what you shoot, and accuracy is more important than snobby brands.

 

[Zoidberg523]

How many people here would "give up" something they wholeheartedly embraced because someone disparaged them or their equipment (which is the least thing you should worry about)? Lets be serious here for a moment, I've had more than my fair share of people giving me their opinion on my guns and gun ownership, and it hasn't made me go sell my collection and go and take up needlepoint.

Good for you. Apparently, then, you and the subject of the OP's post differ in this way then.

It often happens that someone (especially someone young) will try something out before deciding whether they like it or not. If they are smart, they will choose to "try it out" with a cheaper firearm, just in case they don't like it: they wont have wasted much cash (you see this a lot with musicians too - ones trying it out buy a Squier guitar, then later a Fender, finally a Gibson or other top-brand guitar). What's to say that (had people not been so rude to him) he would not have become skilled with the C9 a sought a better firearm? What's to say that 20 years down the road, he wouldn't have been a pistol shooting titleholder with a collection of Kimbers?

We all start somewhere - you did too.

So looking rationally at the situation, if this person chose to end his firearm ownership because of these yahoo's, then it would likely have only been a matter of time before they chose to end it for some other reason.

No offense, but have you ever taught anyone anything? I am pretty sure that ANY teacher/instructor (school, music, cooking, etc.) will agree with me here: if someone is to learn something, and stick with it, they need support and help. What you stated above is akin to a teacher starting a student on algebra, and when they don;t get it, or do it right, the teacher just saying, "Well, it'll never happen anyway, so I might as well just stop trying to teach them."

Having taught music, I can tell you this: a little encouragement goes A LONG WAY. If that child (or adult) hears you say that their sloppy, barely-legible version of Scarborough Fair is great, they will strive to keep learning. If you tell them it sucks, it's all over, and they may never feel the drive to play again. Such is the relationship between a new shooter and any experienced shooter who happens to be around them. We as shooters and enthusiasts have a responsibility, around new shooters, to either lend encouragement in any way we can, or else SHUT UP.

 

[Maverick223]

We can all learn something from a story such as this. While it is disheartening to hear about, it is something that we should all keep in mind when critiquing others. Furthermore, I am not much of a pistol person, but IME HighPoints have been utterly reliable, and I have heard that their CS is excellent; whilst there are certainly better options, there are much worse as well. Also, though I do find it acceptable to inform and critique other's choices, it often goes too far. I may not always, or often agree, but unless the firearm is dangerous (to the shooter) it may be best to keep those views to ourselves, or at the very least not turn to such low road behavior as ridiculing the owner.

 

[loki.fish]

If you don't like what I shoot, feel free to buy me "the best", otherwise keep your rude comments to yourself.

That's the way I look at it.

 

[2GunsWest]

Guess I'm just weird, I like all guns.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

I have a Hi-point 45 and I love it. The ones at the Range get hammered and have no issues.

 

[Ian]

I would much rather carry and shoot one of my $120 PA-63s than a $150 HiPoint C9. I don't dislike inexpensive guns, I dislike crappy guns.

 

[Hatterasguy]

Whats wrong with a Hi Point C9? I'd have as much fun shooting a Hi Point as a Wilson Combat 1911 or HK Socom Mk23. Different types of guns are interesting.

My $200 10/22 and $100 Mosin get a heck of a lot more range time than my $2k Sig.

Cost bears no relation to shooting fun.

 

[Zoidberg523]

I would much rather carry and shoot one of my $120 PA-63s than a $150 HiPoint C9. I don't dislike inexpensive guns, I dislike crappy guns.

I trust you are simply saying that you enjoy a cheap firearm as well, as opposed to saying the C9 is crappy?

 

[dougw47]

Gun Snobs

I bought my first center-fire rifle at K-Mart in 1968. It was a 1895 Mauser 7x57 that some company sporterized. I paid $29 for it, had it drilled and tapped, bolt handle forged and put a K-Mart All-Pro 4x32 scope on it. Had less than $100 total invested. It shot great. I was working for $2.00 per hr...it was all I could afford.

Went deer hunting with some relatives, when I pulled out my rifle...all my uncles laughed and made fun of it and me. They showed off their Remingtons and Winchesters and made me feel like shi*! I almost went back home.

When the hunt was over, I was the only one to take a buck. They never invited me back. That was their loss.

Today, I own many guns...some worth more than my pick-up. I still have the 7x57...it likes Norma ammo, and it still shoots good. It is not for sale!

 

[Gungnir]

No offense, but have you ever taught anyone anything? I am pretty sure that ANY teacher/instructor (school, music, cooking, etc.) will agree with me here: if someone is to learn something, and stick with it, they need support and help.

Yes I have many times in many things, including martial arts, weapons and tactics, rock/blues guitar, software engineering, physics and mathematics.

What you stated above is akin to a teacher starting a student on algebra, and when they don;t get it, or do it right, the teacher just saying, "Well, it'll never happen anyway, so I might as well just stop trying to teach them."

It is not the same thing at all, one thing that a successful teacher needs to ascertain is whether their student has the desire to achieve their goals, and if they do not (have the desire) reset their goals; otherwise its a waste of both of your time. They will not apply enough effort to achieve the goals and become discouraged and fail anyway. This may include advising them that you cannot help them although they have the desire and ability so should try to find a different teacher, or that they do not have the desire or ability for whatever field it is that they are wanting to learn something in, in the time frame that they find acceptable.

 

[oneounceload]

and i consistently shoot in the high 80's to low 90's.

So you must win your state's champion shoot as well?? Always amazes me how these cheap guns that everyone does so well with are NEVER found in the winner's circle at ANY trap, skeet or sporting clay tournament. Where ARE all you folks who love to brag about how cheap you went and how well the gun performs?

Unless it is a pump-specific event at a tournament, pumps are not seen on a sporting course during a tournament. Where are all of you folks shooting these tourneys at so I can look them up on the net?

Quality costs...some can afford it, some can't - the way of the world - no disparagement towards anyone, but let's get real............there's a reason guns like Seitz, Ljutic, Perazzi, Kreighoff sell................

 

[Hatterasguy]

Oh yeah, if it was really into trap I'd drop the money for a good side by side.

Personaly I really like Holland & Holland.

 

[jcwit]

Quote:
The thread is about being a snob, being a snob is all about price being the deciding factor.

Snobs can be found on both sides of the argument.

I fail to see where the other side is.

 

[Zoidberg523]

It is not the same thing at all, one thing that a successful teacher needs to ascertain is whether their student has the desire to achieve their goals, and if they do not (have the desire) reset their goals

You do not have a single iota of a clue as to the goals of the subject of the OP's post. A successful teacher does not mock a student's choice in equipment. Some things are difficult to learn, and if you give up on a student at the first sign of trouble (or "ascertain whether the student has the desire" upon first contact with them - as the men at the range did, who judged the subject of the OP's post simply for having a Hi-Point), or assume (because they are unskilled, ill-prepared, or difficult to teach) that they do not have te proper desire, then I pity your students.

You can say, "Well, if he gave up so quickly, he wouldn't have stuck with it anyway!" till you are blue in the face, and it wont make it true. Encouragement leads to practice, which leads to skill. If someone truly does not have desire to do something, then they must decide that for themselves - it is not your place (as an instructor - or a peer) to tell them what they feel.

If said person, after a length of time, still shows no drive, aptitude, improvement, or enthusiasm, then it may be time to have a talk with them, about how their time may be better spent doing something that they would enjoy more. That is NOT, however, a call you can make from a second-hand story about a person you have never even met: don't be so pretentious.