Gun store know it all.....what do you do?

[mortablunt]

was in Cabelas in Ft.Worth TX, listening to a guy behind the gun counter feeding 2 women (that had never held a gun before) so many un-truths. Two examples were ".22 LR is a great self defense round" and "here try this HI Power, its the gun that started it all, they designed the 1911 after the HI Power" i just cringed.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxRX6LXDpWs

Tovarishch Kot does not approve.

I'd start telling them the truth and if I had a smartphone with internet, bring up wikipedia. Call the man out on his garbage. The #1 thing that will flat out get me angry is intentionally misleading and spreading false information.

 

[wyohome]

If it was a matter of opinion, I would say nothing, I have seen someone killed by one head shot from a .22. If it was something dangerous and factually wrong like 'They will be tight, but 3 1/2" shells will work in your 2 3/4" shotgun' I may speak up.

 

[BlkHawk73]

Tough call, if it was a question of safety, you interrupt. If it's simply fables and stories like this scenario, you politely keep your distance and perhaps intercept the customers away from the counter. You then speak to the manager - maybe. It's a widespread occurrence actually. It's the testosterone kicking in with the male ego helping create the genius once they're on the other side of the counter. Same occurs on the customer side even more actually. Both sides are quite evident at gun shows. (love the customers with the "I know what these cost" lines to get a better deal.
Now that all being said, if the know-it-all comes across as the ego trip type rather than just the ignorant (term not used as a derogative term but as one that's simply doesn't know they are mistaken) then I might interject. Maybe not my place but it'll bring the ego-junkie back down to Earth and maybe have him think about telling tales at a later time.
Bottom line, all depends on the scenario and the attitude the story is told with.

 

[larryh1108]

Jorg, I do not disagree. However, if someone is ignorant on the subject they may think the guy selling them should have the right answers. If you need a computer and never owned one and are intimidated by them and you walk into Best Buy with their Geek Squad, wouldn't you trust what the guy behind the counter tells you? After all, it's his job to know. Same with guns. They aren't on shelves at every box store. They are somewhat mysterious and clandestine. If you are ignorant on the subject and you walk into a gun store to learn about them then I don't know where else the uneducated would go when it comes to firearms. Discussion at work may be taboo. Talking to your neighbor who thinks the .50 anything is the best way to get to your .308 or 12ga may not be the best way either. Go to your local sheriff and he'll likely tell you that most shootings are with your own gun or a bunch of other lies to dissuade you from getting one. Talk to a friend of a friend who likes pepper spray and knives and you get another answer. So, I'd guess that when a newbie to guns walks into a gun store, they believe the advice they will get is from an "expert". That's my thought. Firearms are a different story than almost any other consummable. Everyone drives, has or had a car, etc. Easy to seek opinions. Not so with firearms.

 

[beatledog7]

Same thing happened to me a few months ago. I solved it by getting out of earshot.

 

[willypete]

one should never miss a chance to mind his own business

That's great advice, right there. Well put, too.

I have a hard time biting my tongue when I hear know-it-all nonsense, and I usually have to walk away. Unless someone is speaking directly to me or someone I'm with at a gun store (I love introducing new shooters to some of my favorite local gun stores ), I try very hard not to respond to this sort of bloviation.

 

[coalman]

A .22lr is better than nothing. Getting shot can be psychological as much as physical, and just displaying the gun can be effective. However, "great" for SD it's not. This is an unprofessional statement IMO.

The BHP recommendation is the more frustrating part for me. IMO, he had a BHP they could not move and was trying to just get it out of the case; something he'd joke about after the sale. Suggesting a BHP in this case as a first gun is unprofessional IMO.

Professionally, IMO, the salesman's job is to make the sale, BUT to also try and find a balance with what's best for the customer. This is good for business long-term IMO. And, this is good for gun owners as a whole as the more people who have a good experience as a gun owner the better.

Personally, I have a hard time stomaching these things; people being taken advantage of. I think our society has changed somewhat with our tolerance of it, and it varies by locale. What if he'd suggested 10mm? A .500 S&W? When does it become too much? When does it become okay or not okay to prey upon ignorance?

The discussion was about a self-defense gun, right? The women could be in because they'd just been assaulted or fear imminent assualt for good reason. Who knows. IMO, as it's a gun and not a pair of shoes (or the like), there is more responsibility on the salesman's part than to just the store. So, I do not see the salesperson as being a know-it-all, I see him as being unprofessional and irresponsible. As such, I would have likely (politely) suggested they also consider a .38 revolver if they'd not already and that my wife/girlfriend/daughter/whatever really liked hers as her first gun. Or, encourage them to visit a local range to try guns out. Or, if I did not know enough I may ask why they are considering a gun. It's how you say it, but, IMO, you can interject without be a jerk about it. And, I think there is a social responsibility to do so at times.

 

[Lex Luthier]

There will always be ignorant people who cannot tell good information from bad. This is one way in which selective evolution works every time. Choose to help the people closest to you.

I have given up on trying to correct falsehoods and vagaries in those situations. I have also learned to never ask for technical help at certain stores, except for where the bathroom is and do they have more (insert product) in the back.

There is a great comfort knowing what other people don't know.

 

[JRH6856]

3. I once tried to bring some sanity to a similar conversation about buying a shotgun. Guy wanted a pump just to scare folks with the rack. He also wanted blank rounds for more noise. The clerk recommended rubber 00. So I spoke up and the two of them looked like they wanted to kill me.

Good thing the guy just wanted blanks...

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

If you need a computer and never owned one and are intimidated by them and you walk into Best Buy with their Geek Squad, wouldn't you trust what the guy behind the counter tells you? After all, it's his job to know.

It's his job to sell you things. He only needs to know enough to convince you that you want what he is selling. Same with guns.

I understand what you are saying about the somewhat esoteric nature of guns and I agree it might be hard for newbies to find out information. Hopefully sites like this one help out some, but there will always be some people who turn to the experts who want to sell them something.

 

[jeepnik]

Me being me, I'd speak up and suggest the ladies speak to the store manager. If the counter jerk got upset, I'd offer to speak with him and his manager. If the idiot were the manager, I'd ask to be put in contact with the owner.

We don't need newbies being few a line of BS just to make a sale.

Heck, one place I used to deal with also had a range attached. I offered one young fellow a chance to shoot what I had along. I, also, suggested he find another shop and compare what they told him to what he had heard there.

 

[JRH6856]

In any big retail outlet, a good sales clerk is there to sell product, not give good advice. He is there to sell the customer what he can get the customer to buy, not necessarily what the customer wants or needs. The more a sales clerk knows about the product, the more likely he is to resist selling the customer a product that is not right for the customer, and thus, more likely to lose a potential sale. So the best sales clerk is one that knows little.

It is the same with guns, computers, cars, appliances and electronics. I do my own research, learn what I need to know, decide what I want to buy and where I want to buy it, and then go buy it. I don't ask clerks for anything unless I can't find it on the shelf and there is not a self-serve computer for checking stock. I don't need their advice or opinion, just their knowledge of the store layout. And even that is often lacking.

Small, dedicated mom & pop type shops are often different and can be a gold mine of knowledge, but not necessarily good prices. The higher price is often worth the expertise that comes with it. If you find one of these stores, the worst thing you can do is mine the knowledge and then buy where prices are lower.

 

[mljdeckard]

I learned a long time ago, retail store managers are either unwilling or able to pay for genuine expertise. The vast majority of their customers don't need advanced advice, and those that might need more advanced advice will get it somewhere else. (like here, for example.)

Some years ago, I applied for a phone support job with a well-known online gun retailer. Durng the interview, it became obvious that I knew MUCH more about shooting and phone support than the g uy interviewing me ever would. And I remembered the lesson I had learned in the music gear business. There are far too many new guys who think that the subject is so much fun they will work f(r minimum wage in store credit. They don't HAVE to pay what a real professional is worth.

 

[Loosedhorse]

I don't know. Let's assume that the women don't buy anything, and after they walk away from the gun-counter you walk up and tell them the salesman was feeding them a lot of...stuff. My guess is that you've got at least a 60% chance of getting a polite version of, "So...you think perhaps I've never encountered a salesman before?"



And if the conversation is proceeding to sale, well--I'm not sure which I'd rather do: step between a mamma bear and her cub, or a salesman and his commission.

A fool and her money...

 

[David E]

"The Browning Hi Power is a great gun. I forget, what year did it come out? It had to have been before 1911, right?"

 

[BigN]

Keep your mouth shut and move on. Even if the information you're giving is correct, just by the mere fact of you creating a scene will shift the balance from your information to you just being an idiot. Nothing here to do but myob.

 

[aeriedad]

Keep your mouth shut and move on. Even if the information you're giving is correct, just by the mere fact of you creating a scene will shift the balance from your information to you just being an idiot. Nothing here to do but myob.

What scene did he create? After the customers were out of earshot form the wannabe salesman, he suggested they could get better information from another clerk. Maybe I wouldn't have done the same thing, but he wasn't necessarily wrong in his recommendation. He was just trying to be helpful by sharing a relatively uncontroversial opinion. No scene, no controversy. And in any case, it was just his opinion; the ladies were free to ignore his advice, or to engage him in further conversation if they though he could do better than the store clerk.

Either you didn't read the OP, or you ignored inconvenient details so you could tell him how foolish he was to interfere. He wasn't wrong to do what he did, and he wouldn't have been wrong to ignore the customer/clerk interaction and go do something else. Why do so many here on THR derive so much pleasure from judging the actions of others?

 

[moewadle]

I agree with

many who said MYOB. I do not think OP has any business butting in. At the very most he might casually suggest to the women to check out other places of business and other opinions about firearms and move on. Like already said...the only thing worse than one gun store commando is two. And technically, the statement about the .22 being a good defense gun is just sales person's hyperbole. It is not like he said it would drop a Cape Buffalo at 1000 yards. And, I think there is an ethical line being crossed should another customer overhear a sales persons sales talk and openly contradict him. Meaning that is unethical and interfering in another's place of business. So, MYOB and move on. None of your business and do not be self-righteous.

 

[gym]

You would lose either way. Bite your tounge and just blow it off. If they were buying something as important as a gun, they should heave done some research first. It would be like an alien walking into a KIA showroom. He must have had a reason for pushing a particular gun, either he had a lot of them, his commission was better on that one, or his boss told him to get rid of it, either way you would have made an enemy, and not have been welcomed in there. you may not even have been thanked by those ladies, who may think he is the expert and you are just some guy off the street who is bothering them. you did the right thing by leaving it alone.

 

[SwampWolf]

Me being me, I'd speak up and suggest the ladies speak to the store manager.

And "me being me", I'd keep my mouth shut and tend to my own business. Nothing worse in my mind than some "informed" customer butting in on a conversation between a clerk and another customer that may or may not have any relevance to the subject at hand with their informed opinion. I don't think it's my duty or obligation to intervene in a discussion just to "enlighten" the ignorant and to parade my insights on a subject I might (or might not) have more knowledge of, no matter how well intentioned. But that's just me...

As others have opined so succinctly: MYOB!

 

[barstoolguru]

two problem stem from this…one is guns are non returnable and two is the guy behind the counter is making a commission on sale so he is and will say whatever he has to make a sale

 

[aeriedad]

At the very most he might casually suggest to the women to check out other places of business and other opinions about firearms and move on.

Read the OP again. That's exactly what he did...after they left the clerk.

 

[Fremmer]

Oh I think I would have let that alone. They may have liked the 22 or the hi power, nothing wrong with that.

 

[moewadle]

I still have further thoughts on this

at the risk of beating a dead horse. The more I think about it the more I wonder why so many people in the world self-appoint themselves to be guardians for others. So many people on this forum talk about the "Nanny State" and government interference and then someone decides he/she will be the nanny in a gun store for two adult women. I think even more strongly now that what I said was the correct path. Ethically and otherwise. Are you going to try and protect everyone from mistruths just because you know something about firearms. Who gives you the right to be interfering??

 

[aeriedad]

Who gives you the right to be interfering??

The OP said:

I didnt want to start an argument with the guy so i waited patiently for them to walk away from the gun counter and quietly told them they should talk to other gun store clerks and try to get better information.

Doesn't sound so much like interference to me. If we take the OP at his word, it doesn't even sound pushy, just polite. The ladies were free to act on his suggestion...or not.

Maybe you wouldn't have done the same thing, and I don't think I would have either, but it seems like he was more helpful than anything else. It sounds like he took care NOT to interfere. Of course you disagree, but what puzzles me is why you feel the need to pronounce judgement here. No harm, no foul.