Gun Store Owner"If it continues like this I will close shop for a month"
- Thread starter thump_rrr
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Grmart
Member
Gun shops here are still pretty bare. There's a line every Friday morning at Sportsman's Warehouse to buy ammo and loading components.
Cheers,
George
Cheers,
George
I live in NY too. Is this store located over the Tappanzee bridge a few miles north? The situation sounds very familiar and unfortunate.
My LGS is not very local but they did a big business in so-called AW and pistols with evil big clips. On January 14th the shelves were full of rifles and pistols. One January 15th, the shelves were largely empty. ...a few sporting shot guns and one or two pocket pistols with a 7 round mag capacity. Wheel guns are OK but they either can't get them or people don't want to own them.
Ammo is hard to get and people buy it up immediately. We have an ammo background check system coming to NY next year and it will eliminate Internet sales.
Components like powder and primers are almost impossible to buy.
I fully expect this shop to close permanently. If an injunction of the law occurs this will change but that is a long shot possibility. Any challenge will likely be resolved at the Supreme court level and that could take 10 years.
I am trying to sell my house so I can move out of NY.
My LGS is not very local but they did a big business in so-called AW and pistols with evil big clips. On January 14th the shelves were full of rifles and pistols. One January 15th, the shelves were largely empty. ...a few sporting shot guns and one or two pocket pistols with a 7 round mag capacity. Wheel guns are OK but they either can't get them or people don't want to own them.
Ammo is hard to get and people buy it up immediately. We have an ammo background check system coming to NY next year and it will eliminate Internet sales.
Components like powder and primers are almost impossible to buy.
I fully expect this shop to close permanently. If an injunction of the law occurs this will change but that is a long shot possibility. Any challenge will likely be resolved at the Supreme court level and that could take 10 years.
I am trying to sell my house so I can move out of NY.
Zeke/PA
Member
My local FFL sells guns, archery supplies , clothing and bait.
They cannot keep enough decent handguns or AR's in the store.
ammo? Forget it!
They cannot keep enough decent handguns or AR's in the store.
ammo? Forget it!
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anothernewb
Member
Faced with bare shelves, My (small) LGS decided to expand his busisness to stay afloat. He now does mechanic work in addition to gun sales.
I think some people forget that one of the limitations smaller stores carry is a limited stock. Yes, there has been an immense level of panic buying, and some stores may have indeed made a years worth of profits. And then there are others to gripe and whine that the shop should have stayed in business or jacked prices... Lets' look at this another way.
Mr Mom & pop gunstore LLC in an average year carries $50,000 worth of merchandise in their store at any one point in time. They average $200,000 worth of sales a year. They have good credit, and so they carry $100,000 worth of credit available at any one point in time. Now along comes big bad Oogabooga with his gun control program and we get a panic attack by the collective public. with me so far?
The store owner is abreast of current events and preps his credit line to order evil black rifles and ammo. However, every other big box store and LGS across the country is doing pretty much the same thing. Mr BIG box distributor works with 500 stores. He has enough ammo and black guns in the warehouse to supply each of them with one gun and one box of ammo if they all call at once. Is he going to do that? frack no that's a stupid business model, he'll get killed in the shipping and handling costs, and will likely loose some of his stores in protest. So he sends out the orders in a first come, first serve basis. only store #3 orders every gun he has in stock. Dang, it's a good day for him. No problems, he'll call the manufacture for more product. Mr Mom and pop is caller number 4. still with me?
Whole9Yards manufacturing makes black guns. They distribute to 100 wholesalers. They watch the news too. They get 100 calls in 15 minutes. They have orders for 100,000 guns. They can make 100 a day. Instantly they're 2 years behind. They tell the wholesalers they will fill orders as fast as they can. It takes 25# of raw materials to make 1 gun Dang, 100,000 guns, they need more raw materials. They call their material supplier and order 1300 tons of raw materials. on and on it goes.
Meanwhile Mom & pop are making phone calls on every supplier, same story each time.
On the bright side, customers are coming in in droves. In 5 days, their entire supply of ammo and black rifles is gone. $40k worth of inventory, nearly 1/4 of their annual business in one week! freakin awesome for them. They get one shipment in a month later with 4 rifles and 5,000 rounds of ammo in various calibers. Nothing else arrives. Word spreads that they have stuff on the shelves. A horde of customers stops in, cleans the place out again. They desperately try to order more stuff. hey get a call from their warehouse saying it's empty, and no new stock coming in for up to 18 months. Now, it's 4 months later. Shelves are empty, no one walks in the store anymore. but customers call every day - nope there's nothing new this week, no truck stopped by. 1/3 the way into the year, and they've sold 1/4 of their annual sales - and there's nothing else to sell. They get $300-400 worth of ammo in every 3 weeks. if they're lucky. They don't want to piss off customers, so they mark up the boxes about 10%. 20% of their customers bitch about gouging and never come back.
Mom and pop look at the bills. They've made $51,000 between December and January. Projections show over a million dollars of revenue for them this year. awesome! Oh wait, their credit's out, 90% is tied up in backorders. February thru May they've made $1600 on various pieces. April 15th, taxes were due. Guess what, taxes are up 20% due to the projected income shown by $50k worth of sales last fall. By this time last year, they had made close to 80 grand. But the bills are still due, so they use the vacation reserves to pay the shop insurance and taxes. Warehouse still shows 12 months till resupply. With no income projected, they look at cost cutting measures. what to do - Mortgage the property again to keep the doors open with empty shelves in the hope that their reputation remains and stock comes in and a bumper sales in the fourth quarter of the year? or do they close their doors until they have something to sell.
So for those who boohoo against stores facing this condition on the "they've made a years worth of sales" - did they really make a years worth of business or not? yep they had bumper sales, but do they really have a year's worth of inventory on hand. do you keep a year's worth of food and gas at your place? why not - you eat every day, you use fuel every day. You don't, because that much overhead would destroy you financially. But now, of course someone say's you're stupid because you are broke and hungry because there's a run on bacon and you can't get any to eat and the price of driving to the stores to look for it has made you run out of gas...
I think some people forget that one of the limitations smaller stores carry is a limited stock. Yes, there has been an immense level of panic buying, and some stores may have indeed made a years worth of profits. And then there are others to gripe and whine that the shop should have stayed in business or jacked prices... Lets' look at this another way.
Mr Mom & pop gunstore LLC in an average year carries $50,000 worth of merchandise in their store at any one point in time. They average $200,000 worth of sales a year. They have good credit, and so they carry $100,000 worth of credit available at any one point in time. Now along comes big bad Oogabooga with his gun control program and we get a panic attack by the collective public. with me so far?
The store owner is abreast of current events and preps his credit line to order evil black rifles and ammo. However, every other big box store and LGS across the country is doing pretty much the same thing. Mr BIG box distributor works with 500 stores. He has enough ammo and black guns in the warehouse to supply each of them with one gun and one box of ammo if they all call at once. Is he going to do that? frack no that's a stupid business model, he'll get killed in the shipping and handling costs, and will likely loose some of his stores in protest. So he sends out the orders in a first come, first serve basis. only store #3 orders every gun he has in stock. Dang, it's a good day for him. No problems, he'll call the manufacture for more product. Mr Mom and pop is caller number 4. still with me?
Whole9Yards manufacturing makes black guns. They distribute to 100 wholesalers. They watch the news too. They get 100 calls in 15 minutes. They have orders for 100,000 guns. They can make 100 a day. Instantly they're 2 years behind. They tell the wholesalers they will fill orders as fast as they can. It takes 25# of raw materials to make 1 gun Dang, 100,000 guns, they need more raw materials. They call their material supplier and order 1300 tons of raw materials. on and on it goes.
Meanwhile Mom & pop are making phone calls on every supplier, same story each time.
On the bright side, customers are coming in in droves. In 5 days, their entire supply of ammo and black rifles is gone. $40k worth of inventory, nearly 1/4 of their annual business in one week! freakin awesome for them. They get one shipment in a month later with 4 rifles and 5,000 rounds of ammo in various calibers. Nothing else arrives. Word spreads that they have stuff on the shelves. A horde of customers stops in, cleans the place out again. They desperately try to order more stuff. hey get a call from their warehouse saying it's empty, and no new stock coming in for up to 18 months. Now, it's 4 months later. Shelves are empty, no one walks in the store anymore. but customers call every day - nope there's nothing new this week, no truck stopped by. 1/3 the way into the year, and they've sold 1/4 of their annual sales - and there's nothing else to sell. They get $300-400 worth of ammo in every 3 weeks. if they're lucky. They don't want to piss off customers, so they mark up the boxes about 10%. 20% of their customers bitch about gouging and never come back.
Mom and pop look at the bills. They've made $51,000 between December and January. Projections show over a million dollars of revenue for them this year. awesome! Oh wait, their credit's out, 90% is tied up in backorders. February thru May they've made $1600 on various pieces. April 15th, taxes were due. Guess what, taxes are up 20% due to the projected income shown by $50k worth of sales last fall. By this time last year, they had made close to 80 grand. But the bills are still due, so they use the vacation reserves to pay the shop insurance and taxes. Warehouse still shows 12 months till resupply. With no income projected, they look at cost cutting measures. what to do - Mortgage the property again to keep the doors open with empty shelves in the hope that their reputation remains and stock comes in and a bumper sales in the fourth quarter of the year? or do they close their doors until they have something to sell.
So for those who boohoo against stores facing this condition on the "they've made a years worth of sales" - did they really make a years worth of business or not? yep they had bumper sales, but do they really have a year's worth of inventory on hand. do you keep a year's worth of food and gas at your place? why not - you eat every day, you use fuel every day. You don't, because that much overhead would destroy you financially. But now, of course someone say's you're stupid because you are broke and hungry because there's a run on bacon and you can't get any to eat and the price of driving to the stores to look for it has made you run out of gas...
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thump_rrr
Member
It's only 270 miles north of the Tappan Zee Bridge just off of I 87.
JRH6856
Member
They couldn't have gouged. Nothing in the situation described indicated the existence of conditions which could produce gouging.
It didn't matter how big a store you were, how much inventory you had on hand, or how high your prices were. I'm a member of the Scottsdale Gun Club, and during the recent insanity, they didn't have any long guns (including shotguns and bolt action rifles) and almost no handguns (some revolvers and high end 1911's, nothing else). Their prices have always been on the high end, and near gouging during the rush. Ammo sales were limited to 10 boxes, then 3, 2, now 1 if you are shooting it at their indoor range.
I know from running a small business, that if you make a year's income in a very short period of time, you are ok for that year. Then you start trying to figure out how to keep all your full time employees working at least part time when you don't need them after the rush, because you will need them again in the future.
I know from running a small business, that if you make a year's income in a very short period of time, you are ok for that year. Then you start trying to figure out how to keep all your full time employees working at least part time when you don't need them after the rush, because you will need them again in the future.
My boss came to me the other day and told me what a great job I was doing. He said other managers in the company were taking notice and he felt like the demand for my services were going up so he was doubling my salary. I declined because I didn't feel comfortable gouging the company. By gouging the company the cost will trickle down to the customers.
It makes me feel good that so many people here will obviously do the same next time they are offered a raise. And for you selfish people that except that raise remember the customers will ultimately be the ones hurt
It makes me feel good that so many people here will obviously do the same next time they are offered a raise. And for you selfish people that except that raise remember the customers will ultimately be the ones hurt
justice06rr
Member
Raising their prices even to "gouging" levels wouldn't have helped.
Your basic economics doesn't always apply to every LGS out there. This store was too small to even compete with larger big box stores or online retailers.
You need to be a business owner to even understand these type of situations. If you raise your prices too much, you drive away some customers. If you lower it too much, you get cleaned out or lose profit. You have to find the balance between the two, and also be innovative during those downtimes and short supply.
The overall problem here is that this small mom-n-pop store cannot get ammo and other products in to stay competitive, or just to stay in business. Raising your prices won't help if people don't buy from you to begin with.
Very unfortunate for them, hopefully their business survives. Nothing wrong with taking a short break, but who knows if then can afford to re-open in the future.
Your basic economics doesn't always apply to every LGS out there. This store was too small to even compete with larger big box stores or online retailers.
You need to be a business owner to even understand these type of situations. If you raise your prices too much, you drive away some customers. If you lower it too much, you get cleaned out or lose profit. You have to find the balance between the two, and also be innovative during those downtimes and short supply.
The overall problem here is that this small mom-n-pop store cannot get ammo and other products in to stay competitive, or just to stay in business. Raising your prices won't help if people don't buy from you to begin with.
Very unfortunate for them, hopefully their business survives. Nothing wrong with taking a short break, but who knows if then can afford to re-open in the future.
You will see many shops close in the coming 9 months. Partly because so many opened in the last 4 years. Partly because they can't get any inventory. And partly because what they do get no one wants. We are awash in Ar15s and they arent selling. It's all pistol ammo all the time. And there isnt much around. And wont be for another year.
When the banic was on in 08/09 I didnt raise prices and I was a good guy. I sold out quickly and by the end of the year was darn near out of business. During that time no one came and said "hey I can get this gun for 10 less down the street but because you didnt raise prices I'll buy it here." No one.
This time I charged "market" prices for everything. I sold just as much and put money in the bank, knowing what was coming. I have inventory, paid for, low overhead, good credit with suppliers and cash. I have yet to have someone come and say "that gun is 10 less than they guy down the street but because you charged high prices in the banic I'm not going to buy it from you." Never happened.
When the banic was on in 08/09 I didnt raise prices and I was a good guy. I sold out quickly and by the end of the year was darn near out of business. During that time no one came and said "hey I can get this gun for 10 less down the street but because you didnt raise prices I'll buy it here." No one.
This time I charged "market" prices for everything. I sold just as much and put money in the bank, knowing what was coming. I have inventory, paid for, low overhead, good credit with suppliers and cash. I have yet to have someone come and say "that gun is 10 less than they guy down the street but because you charged high prices in the banic I'm not going to buy it from you." Never happened.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Heh!
Imagine being a Mom and Pop LGS like these people and closing the doors for business during the entire month of June...but still taking in shipments whenever they can.
When they open their doors again in July they'll be doing brisk business with all that stock!
Imagine being a Mom and Pop LGS like these people and closing the doors for business during the entire month of June...but still taking in shipments whenever they can.
When they open their doors again in July they'll be doing brisk business with all that stock!
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