Gun value as an "investment", and selling them
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While back a friend ask me to examine two Walther P-38 pistols that were brought back by an Uncle from Europe. Both had original holsters, and were in excellent shape. He had gone to a dealer who valued them as military issued guns. So far, so good.
But when I checked the markings, it turned out that they weren't military issue, but police. As such they were were worth about 2 1/2 times that of a more common military model. Several little stamps added hundreds of dollars to the value. The dealer hadn't checked. I did. If these guns had been for sale at the dealer's shop I would have scored bigtime.
There is nothing wrong with "only buying guns to shoot," except that one is limited as to the number they can buy unless they have a lot of bucks to spend. Often folks will tell me, I'd love to buy a (fill in the blank) but it's far too expensive for my budget." In this situation the Old Fuff is no different then anyone else, except he has used his knowledge to make enough money here and there to be occasionally able to get that (fill in the blank) for much less then it would have cost if the whole amount had come out of his paycheck. In the course of doing this he's learned a lot too, made some great (not to mention interesting) friends, and enjoyed the whole trip.
What others do is their business.
But when I checked the markings, it turned out that they weren't military issue, but police. As such they were were worth about 2 1/2 times that of a more common military model. Several little stamps added hundreds of dollars to the value. The dealer hadn't checked. I did. If these guns had been for sale at the dealer's shop I would have scored bigtime.
There is nothing wrong with "only buying guns to shoot," except that one is limited as to the number they can buy unless they have a lot of bucks to spend. Often folks will tell me, I'd love to buy a (fill in the blank) but it's far too expensive for my budget." In this situation the Old Fuff is no different then anyone else, except he has used his knowledge to make enough money here and there to be occasionally able to get that (fill in the blank) for much less then it would have cost if the whole amount had come out of his paycheck. In the course of doing this he's learned a lot too, made some great (not to mention interesting) friends, and enjoyed the whole trip.
What others do is their business.
Gunfighter123
Member
Sorry to say but you must be a "youngster" ---- what would that USP . 40 be worth 20 YEARS FROM NOW ???
My thinking exactly ---- with the BIG PART of "know what you are doing."
For new guns the problem most of us face is we're paying retail price, then selling back at wholesale. Its just like with coins, diamonds and other collectibles.
Phydeaux642 has the right idea, look for good used guns. There are tons of pristine previously owned ones in the stores right now on consignment, guys having to give them up because of the economy I think.
Phydeaux642 has the right idea, look for good used guns. There are tons of pristine previously owned ones in the stores right now on consignment, guys having to give them up because of the economy I think.
AT THIS UNIQUE JUNCTURE IN HISTORY, i believe we are given an also unique chance to invest in firearms, and as noted in a previous posting, select accessories.
it seems a no brainer that the saiga 12 will, at some time soon, be banned or become a destructive device. do a search on USAS 12, or streetsweeper shotguns. the difference between these and a saiga 12 is_____? same applies to 10 round extended mags, and 20 round drums for them.
so called "black rifles" have really saturated the market of late, and will take longer to appreciate, but likely will fall to the same fate eventually, yet again. same-o for 10+ round mags to feed'em with.
methinx ANY browning 50 chambered arm will be banned eventually, also.
i hold these truths to be self evident. if in dissagreement, be thankfull for the firearms of yesteryear that preserved our right to dissagree!
gunnie
it seems a no brainer that the saiga 12 will, at some time soon, be banned or become a destructive device. do a search on USAS 12, or streetsweeper shotguns. the difference between these and a saiga 12 is_____? same applies to 10 round extended mags, and 20 round drums for them.
so called "black rifles" have really saturated the market of late, and will take longer to appreciate, but likely will fall to the same fate eventually, yet again. same-o for 10+ round mags to feed'em with.
methinx ANY browning 50 chambered arm will be banned eventually, also.
i hold these truths to be self evident. if in dissagreement, be thankfull for the firearms of yesteryear that preserved our right to dissagree!
gunnie
theotherwaldo
Member
You're a pessimist, gunnie.
I say, take back our rights. The Bill of Rights doesn't defend hunting, it defends our right to militia weapons. Like the Saigas, the "black rifles", the semi-auto and bolt-action .50s, and all of the "scary" guns that the politicians have jerked out of our hands.
It's our Bill of Rights, not theirs. I want it back.
I say, take back our rights. The Bill of Rights doesn't defend hunting, it defends our right to militia weapons. Like the Saigas, the "black rifles", the semi-auto and bolt-action .50s, and all of the "scary" guns that the politicians have jerked out of our hands.
It's our Bill of Rights, not theirs. I want it back.
+1, theotherwaldo.
but consider the fact that federal income tax is an emergency measure to fund WWI.
the constitution gaurandamntees the right to private ownership of land, yet i have to lease mine on a yearly basis from the county tax board, or get evicted.
fullys were put under federal liscensing restrictions in the late 20-30's.
in the depression, silencers were put under federal control.
in the 60's, federal registration of new firearms sales went into effect.
in the 70's, or there about, no new machine guns were allowed to be made available to the public. only the existing stock would be grandfathered in.
incendiary, AP, even teflon coated bullets are now verboten.
serious activity is afoot to chemically limit the shelf life of ammo.
see a pattern developing here?
gunnie
but consider the fact that federal income tax is an emergency measure to fund WWI.
the constitution gaurandamntees the right to private ownership of land, yet i have to lease mine on a yearly basis from the county tax board, or get evicted.
fullys were put under federal liscensing restrictions in the late 20-30's.
in the depression, silencers were put under federal control.
in the 60's, federal registration of new firearms sales went into effect.
in the 70's, or there about, no new machine guns were allowed to be made available to the public. only the existing stock would be grandfathered in.
incendiary, AP, even teflon coated bullets are now verboten.
serious activity is afoot to chemically limit the shelf life of ammo.
see a pattern developing here?
gunnie
Hard for me to see firearms as a good investment compared to the traditional investments.
Firearms are highly illiquid compared to securities, significantly riskier, poor scale, and have substantial overhead, and legally questionable depending on how often you turnover the investments.
Firearms are highly illiquid compared to securities, significantly riskier, poor scale, and have substantial overhead, and legally questionable depending on how often you turnover the investments.
Well, exactly 2 years ago a share of Lehman Bros. (LEH) common closed @ $60 and Friday it closed @ 5 cents. My Glocks were worth @ $480 apiece 2 years ago and they were worth at least that yesterday. Agreed, for most people gun collecting probably shouldn't be their ONLY investment but when done right it can still be financially rewarding .
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Sorry for your loss of Lehman Bros stock. Fortunately there are tens of thousands of stocks to choose from, as well countless numbers of financial instruments and securities to invest in besides the financial sector.Lakeshore said:
Then again, if $1000 is a significant investment (in the sense of saving for retirement, kids college, new house, new car) to you, then you may have more pressing issues than worrying about how to invest.
Col. Plink
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Long story short, durable goods are a good way to store your wealth, not necessarily invest it for return. Durable goods such as firearms may be a better investment than playing the market because real value is different than stated value in a currency that may itself crash.
I think the future of our currency is what makes durable goods (especially working firearms, most especially those that have inherent value and were bought for less than that value) a good 'investment' right now. So your stocks rise, but at the rate money is being printed and injected into circulation or GIVEN to banks, the money it is supposedly worth will itself become worth less and less. Put your money into durable, functional goods (preferably ones that can protect your life). Do it judiciously and their value (which is inherent value that does not depend on the strength of currency) will actually rise instead of just provide a safe haven for your money while currency dilutes into nothing.
I think the future of our currency is what makes durable goods (especially working firearms, most especially those that have inherent value and were bought for less than that value) a good 'investment' right now. So your stocks rise, but at the rate money is being printed and injected into circulation or GIVEN to banks, the money it is supposedly worth will itself become worth less and less. Put your money into durable, functional goods (preferably ones that can protect your life). Do it judiciously and their value (which is inherent value that does not depend on the strength of currency) will actually rise instead of just provide a safe haven for your money while currency dilutes into nothing.
theotherwaldo
Member
C'mon now, Col. Plink. There's no such thing as inherent value.
A thing is worth what someone is willing to pay for that thing.
That applies to gold, guns, and garbage. When someone values a thing then that thing has value.
Otherwise you're trying to sell water to a fish.
A thing is worth what someone is willing to pay for that thing.
That applies to gold, guns, and garbage. When someone values a thing then that thing has value.
Otherwise you're trying to sell water to a fish.
ElToro
Member
i have only bought a couple NIB guns in my life (10/22; 870) and they were on sale at big box stores. the rest have been used. i shop lots of small gun stores hard. i have also bought guns purposely to "flip" like some vintage smith 38-44 for 250 and i burned for well over 1k. other stuff i could sell for lost more than i paid. also have been given some screaming deals on guns from friends and would feel bad selling them for current value, i'd give that friend the chance to buy it back for his sale price first.
as far as durable goods (guns) and inflation... think of it like this...your guns did not become more expensive, your dollar has become cheaper.
that being said. i do wish the guns i sold, i could have back ( sold too soon! their value is even higher now). But i do not intend to sell any guns in the future
as far as durable goods (guns) and inflation... think of it like this...your guns did not become more expensive, your dollar has become cheaper.
that being said. i do wish the guns i sold, i could have back ( sold too soon! their value is even higher now). But i do not intend to sell any guns in the future
As others have pointed out, if you are buying expecting them to go up, then go for the collectibles.
My father bought 1911's for $16-30, then sold them years later for $600 or more. He bought a Pedersen Device for $300 way back when (a lot of money then), and sold it for ~$30,000 later...
As we go through his military collection, I'd have to say that he happened to know what items were rare and bought those. He spent a lot of time at garage sales, thrift stores and gun shows (when they used to have actual good deals 30-50 years ago).
I've bought a few handguns recently that I could probably sell for 20-30% more than I paid for them. Some deals are out there...
My father bought 1911's for $16-30, then sold them years later for $600 or more. He bought a Pedersen Device for $300 way back when (a lot of money then), and sold it for ~$30,000 later...
As we go through his military collection, I'd have to say that he happened to know what items were rare and bought those. He spent a lot of time at garage sales, thrift stores and gun shows (when they used to have actual good deals 30-50 years ago).
I've bought a few handguns recently that I could probably sell for 20-30% more than I paid for them. Some deals are out there...
Col. Plink
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Waldo - by inherent value I mean just that, not 'what someone will give you for it'. I was referring to the value any durable good has: it was produced to meet a need or carry out a function. If it is still in working order then it has most of its inherent value intact (possibly more so if it is in excellent condition, newer versions like it are less durable or less reliable, or if it is generally hard to find). My point was that firearms are durable goods: tools that provide service to their owners.
Whatever happens to our money or productive capacity, a good firearm will have value to its owner. What he traded for it (money or goods) does not increase or diminish its inherent value. What cost $100 100 years ago may or may not be worth what $100 buys today, but what was it worth to the buyer at the time? Guns have inherent value. What are they worth? That will obviously vary by example and change over time. As long as a gun is worth in effectiveness whatever was given for it (in the mind of the buyer) it's a good deal.
Speculating in terms of however much MORE a gun is worth than just its effectiveness leaves behind its inherent value and gets into tastes and what tickles a person's fancy. If you have a gun that is 'worth' more to someone else than it's value to you as a tool, SELL IT. What I said was that guns are a good place to put one's money as long as you can keep them up and only paid for them what they were worth as tools. Of course, with enough knowledge a person can make a lot of shrewd buys on guns that are worth more as reliable, well-made tools than what was asked for them. That takes you from a good vehicle for retaining your wealth to the possibility of investing to make money.
Whatever happens to our money or productive capacity, a good firearm will have value to its owner. What he traded for it (money or goods) does not increase or diminish its inherent value. What cost $100 100 years ago may or may not be worth what $100 buys today, but what was it worth to the buyer at the time? Guns have inherent value. What are they worth? That will obviously vary by example and change over time. As long as a gun is worth in effectiveness whatever was given for it (in the mind of the buyer) it's a good deal.
Speculating in terms of however much MORE a gun is worth than just its effectiveness leaves behind its inherent value and gets into tastes and what tickles a person's fancy. If you have a gun that is 'worth' more to someone else than it's value to you as a tool, SELL IT. What I said was that guns are a good place to put one's money as long as you can keep them up and only paid for them what they were worth as tools. Of course, with enough knowledge a person can make a lot of shrewd buys on guns that are worth more as reliable, well-made tools than what was asked for them. That takes you from a good vehicle for retaining your wealth to the possibility of investing to make money.
theotherwaldo
Member
-That's pretty much how I feel about my own tools. They have inherent value to me - or I wouldn't have gone out of my way to get them.
That doesn't mean that anyone else shares my opinion.
That doesn't mean that anyone else shares my opinion.
oldvet
Member
Tradin'
Investment in guns is a state of mind -- my Uncle once traded his two $3000 Al-ee cats for a $6000 Mon-grill dog. All involved parties seemed satisfied with the deal!
Investment in guns is a state of mind -- my Uncle once traded his two $3000 Al-ee cats for a $6000 Mon-grill dog. All involved parties seemed satisfied with the deal!
"Buying as investment" vs just plain lucky.
I really like the SKS carbine, and at an Indy 1500 gunshow over 10 years ago I bought several at $79.99 each -- $69.99 if you buy ten. I wish I'd bought 50!! I liked them enough to have done it. Some had the Toola (ΤΥΛa) mint marks, and two-cross-bolt furniture. I've sold those for $500 and $600 apiece. Who would have dreamed?? I'm investing now by the case in quality 12ga, and ØØ, hoping to make a buck when the "ballon goes up."
I really like the SKS carbine, and at an Indy 1500 gunshow over 10 years ago I bought several at $79.99 each -- $69.99 if you buy ten. I wish I'd bought 50!! I liked them enough to have done it. Some had the Toola (ΤΥΛa) mint marks, and two-cross-bolt furniture. I've sold those for $500 and $600 apiece. Who would have dreamed?? I'm investing now by the case in quality 12ga, and ØØ, hoping to make a buck when the "ballon goes up."
Buy a gun because you want to own it. Sell it when/if you don't care if you own it anymore.
Money really isn't the object, to me. I shoot all of my guns, so I'm not looking toward 'collectibility'.
If I want to make an investment, I'll buy a CD, a stock, or an ounce of gold.
Guns is guns.
Money really isn't the object, to me. I shoot all of my guns, so I'm not looking toward 'collectibility'.
If I want to make an investment, I'll buy a CD, a stock, or an ounce of gold.
Guns is guns.
kimbershot
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got what i want
took me over 4 years of horse trading, but i have 2 45's (used, pristine) that cost me squat. an awc amphibian at 800 with tax stamp, a 32 seecamp-new, no out of pocket, and a rra lower with spikes upper--750.00. this is a lot of iron for a little kaching! i did it by buying right, selling right and not falling hopelessly in love anything that crossed my plate.
took me over 4 years of horse trading, but i have 2 45's (used, pristine) that cost me squat. an awc amphibian at 800 with tax stamp, a 32 seecamp-new, no out of pocket, and a rra lower with spikes upper--750.00. this is a lot of iron for a little kaching! i did it by buying right, selling right and not falling hopelessly in love anything that crossed my plate.
justashooter in pa
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buy low and sell high.
several years ago i got into gunbuilding and bought FNFAL, ZB30, bren, ppsh, pps43, beretta 38, 1919, mg42, etc and AK kits for 59-159$, built them for +100-200$, and sold the excess i no longer wanted during the boom for $600-800 avg. i was buying ammo like crazy when surp was a nickle or so a pop, and have since sold much of it for 3-6X what i paid. i also have a bunch of mausers bought cheap that have tripled in value. i enjoyed everything i bought, but always bought lots of whatever of interest was super cheap.
too bad the days of $150 ballesters are gone, and kits are scarce with high prices. somethign will come around soon, though. be ready for it and buy deep if the price is cheap.
several years ago i got into gunbuilding and bought FNFAL, ZB30, bren, ppsh, pps43, beretta 38, 1919, mg42, etc and AK kits for 59-159$, built them for +100-200$, and sold the excess i no longer wanted during the boom for $600-800 avg. i was buying ammo like crazy when surp was a nickle or so a pop, and have since sold much of it for 3-6X what i paid. i also have a bunch of mausers bought cheap that have tripled in value. i enjoyed everything i bought, but always bought lots of whatever of interest was super cheap.
too bad the days of $150 ballesters are gone, and kits are scarce with high prices. somethign will come around soon, though. be ready for it and buy deep if the price is cheap.
Hack-62
"... a CD, a stock, or an ounce of gold." My best 24-mo CD paid me 2%, and inflation beat that into a 4% loss; I no longer have stock, after watching them lose on all sectors, to gold, by 200%; and while gold IS up, my favorite "heavy metal", and weapons have exceeded a 300% average, even with inflation. And I still have many "toys" to deal with and play with. But what I sell now, I'm turning into silver, gold, and MREs. It's just Y2K all over again, except this time it's with Tsars and Kommissars. These guy play for keeps, and don't want to share power.
"... a CD, a stock, or an ounce of gold." My best 24-mo CD paid me 2%, and inflation beat that into a 4% loss; I no longer have stock, after watching them lose on all sectors, to gold, by 200%; and while gold IS up, my favorite "heavy metal", and weapons have exceeded a 300% average, even with inflation. And I still have many "toys" to deal with and play with. But what I sell now, I'm turning into silver, gold, and MREs. It's just Y2K all over again, except this time it's with Tsars and Kommissars. These guy play for keeps, and don't want to share power.
Guns are like Stocks, you need a LOT of them to call it an investment.
Those $89.00 Mosins don't cut it, nor Grandad's old 870 pump. I'm talking practical
peices or ones made of Unobtanium.
GUN Investment Advice for the Month: Buy Handguns with Metal Frames.
Those $89.00 Mosins don't cut it, nor Grandad's old 870 pump. I'm talking practical
peices or ones made of Unobtanium.
GUN Investment Advice for the Month: Buy Handguns with Metal Frames.
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