Gunbroker

[stonebuster]

I bought a revolver on GB July 22 for $500. Seller requested two $250 USPS MOs which I sent out the next day 23rd. I chose my receiving FFL from the GB list and the seller received the FFL info. GB site shows the gun shipped on July 29th and the transaction complete. I sent an email to seller a couple days ago to confirm GB info as to shipping date. No response from seller for two days so I sent another yesterday. Response was "Hey boss, sorry, my FFL is having shipping problems. I'll try tomorrow." I'm getting a bad feeling about the deal. By the time I get, if I do, it will be a month after the auction closed. How long should I wait before feeling burned. I'm thinking a month after auction closing before contacting GB.

 

[Styx]

What did the seller's feedback look like? What's his rating and how long has he been a member?

 

[earlthegoat2]

I once had a deal take 2 months from auction close until the gun got to my FFL. I had actually written the whole thing off and then one day my FFL calls me and says the gun is there. There was not much communication in this instance either. I think there were some extenuating circumstances with the seller who was an FFL also.

I used to be a PI so I did some digging on the company and found out they had filed bankruptcy recently. That didn’t bode well but I still got the item.

 

[AlexanderA]

That's the problem with using a cash equivalent like a postal money order: you have no recourse. That's why I exclusively use a credit card for online purchases. The bank will take your side in case of fraud. If the seller won't take a credit card, I walk away from the deal.

 

[Havok7416]

That doesn't sound right. Last I remember you can send up to $1000 on a postal MO. Why would the buyer need 2 separate money orders?

 

[dogtown tom]

That doesn't sound right. Last I remember you can send up to $1000 on a postal MO. Why would the buyer need 2 separate money orders?

Because a counter monkey at the local post office isn't likely to have $1000 cash in his drawer. Many sellers prefer to cash their USPS money order rather than deposit it in their checking account. Deposit a fake or altered USPS money order and it will be weeks before it kicks back and your bank debits your account and charges fees.

 

[Havok7416]

Because a counter monkey at the local post office isn't likely to have $1000 cash in his drawer. Many sellers prefer to cash their USPS money order rather than deposit it in their checking account. Deposit a fake or altered USPS money order and it will be weeks before it kicks back and your bank debits your account and charges fees.

In the case of the OP, the local post office would only need to have $500.

 

[dogtown tom]

In the case of the OP, the local post office would only need to have $500.

No kidding.
But you asked "Why would the buyer need 2 separate money orders" and I answered why, but I'll try again.......money orders for amounts greater than a clerk has in his drawer can't be cashed. It doesn't matter if its $1000, $500 or $100. It may mean cashing one of the money orders in the morning, the second that afternoon or the next day.

The idea being a single large money order will be more difficult to cash.

 

[stonebuster]

What did the seller's feedback look like? What's his rating and how long has he been a member?

A+(120) /member since 2009/10 A+ feedbacks stating excellent communication and super fast shipping. I haven't seen either, but maybe I'm too impatient. Thanks for the input from you all.

 

[Havok7416]

A+(120) /member since 2009/10 A+ feedbacks stating excellent communication and super fast shipping. I haven't seen either, but maybe I'm too impatient. Thanks for the input from you all.

With that information I wouldn't be too worried yet. I never like buying off Gunbroker due to the uncertainty, yet I have done it before and may still do it again.

 

[Styx]

A+(120) /member since 2009/10 A+ feedbacks stating excellent communication and super fast shipping. I haven't seen either, but maybe I'm too impatient. Thanks for the input from you all.

You're not to impatient. The seller should have communicated more and the item should have been shipped a long time ago.

Based on his feedback and tenure, I personally wouldn't be to worried about being scammed.

 

[stonebuster]

I've only used GB for one other purchase so still learning. I just learned the seller is supposed to update during the procedure as to FFL received, payment received and shipped which makes the transaction complete. GB shows transaction complete which it isn't. That means the seller must have updated it shipped 7/29 and it still hasn't.

 

[Styx]

I've only used GB for one other purchase so still learning. I just learned the seller is supposed to update during the procedure as to FFL received, payment received and shipped which makes the transaction complete. GB shows transaction complete which it isn't. That means the seller must have updated it shipped 7/29 and it still hasn't.

Try contacting him one more time, and then open up a claim to see if that lights some fire under his behind.

 

[indy1919a4]

One plus and minus about gunbroker is that you are dealing with individuals that work at their own pace... And some peoples pace is super slow.. But they had something you needed at a price you were willing to pay.. So there are trade offs.. Also I do try to remember that real life does get in way of peoples online activities..

I do try to use a credit card to pay for things as much as possible because you do have a option of disputing the charge... But not everyone will take them..

Good luck, fingers crossed for you... try not to say anything you may regret ..

 

[stonebuster]

I contacted the seller and she contacted her FFL. She said her FFL had the gun since July 28th and didn't ship it until yesterday(Aug 11th). Evidently, after she dropped it off at FFL she updated GB site as shipped 7/29 assuming it would be. The way it should be, she gets a tracking number before updating it as shipped to confirm it was indeed shipped. It's on it's way and I've got a tracking number. Thanks for letting me vent a little here and not on her and possibly slow things down more. Indy, you are right people have their own pace and life does get in the way. Also right about not saying anything I'd regret and why I came here first before contacting her when I was a little teed off. Thanks, all.

 

[FlSwampRat]

That's the problem with using a cash equivalent like a postal money order: you have no recourse. That's why I exclusively use a credit card for online purchases. The bank will take your side in case of fraud. If the seller won't take a credit card, I walk away from the deal.

We actually prefer CC deals. Faster, easier simpler.

 

[indy1919a4]

. It's on it's way and I've got a tracking number..

 

[dogtown tom]

That's the problem with using a cash equivalent like a postal money order: you have no recourse. That's why I exclusively use a credit card for online purchases. The bank will take your side in case of fraud. If the seller won't take a credit card, I walk away from the deal.

And that's the very reason I don't accept credit cards for any gun I have to ship.......chargebacks.
Local buyers, I'll have their 4473 to show the bank and local PD.
A buyer in Washington? Tells his bank I never shipped so he does a chargeback. Now its on me to prove the buyer got what I shipped. And banks are happy to do a chargeback even when it isn't fraud by the seller.

 

[indy1919a4]

And that's the very reason I don't accept credit cards for any gun I have to ship.......chargebacks.
Local buyers, I'll have their 4473 to show the bank and local PD.
A buyer in Washington? Tells his bank I never shipped so he does a chargeback. Now its on me to prove the buyer got what I shipped. And banks are happy to do a chargeback even when it isn't fraud by the seller.

Thanks for posting this, I never thunked of this before.. A real good point.. I always looked at it as protection against bad sellers, but it can be used as a weapon by bad buyers.. Thanks again.

 

[SSN Vet]

I only deal with FFL holders on Gun Broker and have never been disappointed.

I never messed around with a private party sale who had to go to an FFL to process and ship.

 

[indy1919a4]

I only deal with FFL holders on Gun Broker and have never been disappointed.

I never messed around with a private party sale who had to go to an FFL to process and ship.

Does a non FFL seller have to use an FFL to ship??? (and hey I know they are out there and do that). There may be some states that require that be done, but I had an understanding a private person can mail to an out of state FFL dealer without any issue. Now they have to provide a copy of their drivers license.

 

[dogtown tom]

Does a non FFL seller have to use an FFL to ship??? (and hey I know they are out there and do that). There may be some states that require that be done,

Not unless your state has such a restriction. ATF just requires that the firearm be received by a licensee in the buyers state of residence.
The advantage may be cheaper shipping rates, even if you pay a fee.
Dealers can ship handguns via USPS much cheaper than UPS/FedEx. Average Joe must use a common carrier and follow their tariff....UPS Next Day, FedEx Overnight ain't cheap.
Having a dealer mail your handgun is usually half the cost of Next Day/Overnight.

but I had an understanding a private person can mail to an out of state FFL dealer without any issue.

If you aren't a licensed dealer or manufacturer you can only mail rifles or shotguns. Handguns and any other concealable firearm like receiver/frames/PGO shotguns/AR lowers? A nonlicensee must ship those via common carrier.
Fail to follow the published tariff of the common carrier (even if the counter monkey says its okay) and you'll get nothing on a claim for loss, theft or damage.
Fail to abide by USPS regs and you commit a felony.

Now they have to provide a copy of their drivers license.

While a dealer may require a drivers license when receiving from a nonlicensee, no ATF regulation requires it. Regulations do require the dealer to record the name and address of the sender....a DL makes that easy.

 

[indy1919a4]

Not unless your state has such a restriction. ATF just requires that the firearm be received by a licensee in the buyers state of residence.
The advantage may be cheaper shipping rates, even if you pay a fee.
Dealers can ship handguns via USPS much cheaper than UPS/FedEx. Average Joe must use a common carrier and follow their tariff....UPS Next Day, FedEx Overnight ain't cheap.
Having a dealer mail your handgun is usually half the cost of Next Day/Overnight.


If you aren't a licensed dealer or manufacturer you can only mail rifles or shotguns. Handguns and any other concealable firearm like receiver/frames/PGO shotguns/AR lowers? A nonlicensee must ship those via common carrier.
Fail to follow the published tariff of the common carrier (even if the counter monkey says its okay) and you'll get nothing on a claim for loss, theft or damage.
Fail to abide by USPS regs and you commit a felony.


While a dealer may require a drivers license when receiving from a nonlicensee, no ATF regulation requires it. Regulations do require the dealer to record the name and address of the sender....a DL makes that easy.

Thanks for that detailed breakdown

 

[SSN Vet]

Dogtown's write up covers the distinct situations very well and is (to the best of my knowledge) 100% accurate....

The only thing I would add to it is that UPS Store outlets are privately owned franchises and as such, the owners make their own rules in addition to the corporate franchise requirements. I've yet to hear of a UPS Store that will ship a gun.

On the other hand, all Fedex retail outlets are corporate owned and play 100% by the corporate Fedex rules.

And while you can legally ship a long gun via. USPS without being an FFL, don't be surprised if the minion behind the counter gets a scared look on their face and in their ignorance defaults to the "you can't do that" answer. I have avoided this by declaring the package to be "machine parts".... though don't go to the bank with that, as I'm not sure if it was kosher or not. My recollection is their inquisition is about explosives, chemicals, flammables, etc.... and not specifically about firearms.

 

[dogtown tom]

Dogtown's write up is very detailed and (to the best of my knowledge) 100% accurate....


The only thing I would add to it is that UPS Store outlets are privately owned franchises and as such, the owners make their own rules in addition to the corporate franchise requirements. I've yet to hear of a UPS Store that will ship a gun.

On the other hand, all Fedex retail outlets are corporate owned and play 100% by the corporate Fedex rules.

Both UPS and FedEx have numerous 3rd party retailers that will ship packages, such as Office Depot, Staples, etc. Just because a business has a FedEx sign outside does not mean its a company owned location. ONLY FedEx Office locations are company owned.

And while you can legally ship a long gun via. USPS without being an FFL, don't be surprised if the minion behind the counter gets a scared look on their face and in their ignorance defaults to the "you can't do that" answer. I have avoided this by declaring the package to be "machine parts"

And that's a felony.
If asked by a postal clerk "whats in the box?" You have to respond truthfully.

That said, in twelve years of being a gun dealer, shipping a least 600-800 gun shipments.... I''ve never been asked a single time by a UPS/FedEx or USPS employee "Whats in the box?"
As a licensed dealer, I have to submit a USPS Form 1508 "Statement of a Shipper of Firearms", but only when shipping a handgun. Rifles? Nope. Shotguns? Nope. And I don't need to do anything but tape my Form 1508 to the box when I drop it through the little hole in the wall at the local PO. No human contact means no human contact.

I just don't get where people think you have to "declare" anything. You can't do it on the UPS/FedEx/USPS websites when you print a shipping label and no law requires you do so unless you are shipping interstate to a nonlicensee....a felony except for a couple of very narrow exceptions.

Lying about the contents, ie "machine parts" doesn't change the fact that the contents is a firearm. Do that with UPS/FedEx the most they'll do is deny any claim for loss, damage or theft. Do that with USPS and it violates federal law.