Guns and Ammo magazine and guns of Islam

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I don't want to get too religious or political here, but there are a few things that need to be said. First, I spent over a year looking for claims made by Al Qaeda and quotes of Al Qaeda made by CIA agents stating that they were out to turn the world in to an Islamic state or punish us for freedom and so far, I have found neither. What I HAVE heard (and the CIA has reported the same thing) is that this whole thing is about revenge against the US for meddling in their business. There ARE some other Muslim groups who talk about turning the world in to an Islamic state and all that nonsense, but all they ever do is talk, and as far as I know, they have no connection to the Al Qaeda or any other terrorist network.
Secondly, I myself am a believer that all religions are man made therefor I am not at all concerned with the authenticity battle of belief systems, but looking at the historical outline of Islam, they have been one of the more tolerant religions around. For instance, Muslim territory was considered safe havens for Jews during the church Inquisitions in the middle ages due to there infrastructure that allowed freedom of religion while the religious wars of Islam historically have been directed at European governments and power circles (like the Vatican) while nearly, if not entirely non-aggressive towards religions that functioned like they do today in the US. Apart from some hard feelings between cultures and decisions made by governments of Muslim countries, the same is still true today even in the midst of this bloody conflict. One good example of this was the case with the Catholic Missionary: Margaret Hassan. When she was kidnapped and her plea for her life shown on video, the very people who were responsible for most of the beheadings that were going on actually spoke in her defense, telling her captors to prove that she was conspiring against them or let her go, in which her captors in stead just shot her in the head and upset allot of people on both sides. Even still, this is just an example of light in even the darkest side if Islam and the current conflict. For the most part, Muslims can be very sharp, respectful and wise people like anyone else. Sure, their religion has some differentiations, good and bad from our common western religions, but to each his own be that he's not causing trouble, which not too many Muslims do. I have had a number of Muslim friends over the years. None were terrorists, none seamed to have any attitude of religious domination. On the contrary, they were respectful people who went out of their way to make everyone comfortable around them and were always happy to have an intelligent conversation, and had a tendency to be well schooled in science, culture and many other things that todays thinking would lead you to think Muslims be ignorant of.
If you want to talk about Muslim weapons, the first thing that comes to mind is that from what I have seen so far, they do a darn good job of making them and I would not be so paranoid about seeing articles on them. Apart from just sheer knowledge of who is using what, I myself would be really fascinated to see what the newer weapons of the new Iraqi military are using. A couple years ago, I saw their military doing joint operations with the US military and noticed that the Iraqis were using a camo AK rifle and was interested to know what sort of goodies they might be using since many of the current production AK goodies that we like to put on our guns are undoubtedly finding their way in to the Iraqi army. Another really interesting country to see is Turkey. Every time I see guns made in Turkey, they are incredible and quite unique as well. This is all in addition to the former Soviet Unions arsenal and Middle Eastern made copies.
 
Hey

At least G&A did something other than, "Look at this new great gun that they sent us and pay us to advertise" or "Here is another .45"

Probably a cool article.
 
I was stationed in Izmir, Turkey while in the USAF about 35 years ago. We were introduced to a local antique dealer who became a good friend while there.

If we expressed an interest in a type of item we had seen and he did not have he would search and if found hold the item until we returned, with no guarentee that we would purchase.

In the course of our visits he learned of my interest in shooting, and about 6 months before we were to leave he sent a messaage asking that I drop by his shop. He had hidden under a low shelf one of those "Islamic flintlocks" to show me. The workmanship was fantastic with gold and silver wire inlays as well as mother of pearl, not so much as to be gaudy as some of the pictures in the G&A issue, but rather elegant. I wish I could have purchased, but it fell under some of their antiquity laws, and as a young Captain I could not have afforded it. He said that gun would be a large part of his retirement.

This dealer was a young man at the time, about my age or slightly older, very well educated and refined. When we would arrive at his shop he always sent out for tea, a custom for good friends and customers, and we often had lunch with him. Of course this was good business as Americans and British serving there were excellent customers and his only advertising was word of mouth.

This was all in the early mid 70's and Turkey was much different from most of the other mid east and Moslem countries. There were a fair number of Christian churches, mostly Catholic and Anglican in Izmir and a couple of Synagog's(sp) so they were tolerent and respectful of other religions as long as you respected theirs.

My wife and I as newlyweds found that was a great place to start our marriage and given the same conditions would gladly go back, but knowing the state of the world and especially that region would be hesitant to do so now.
 
I read the article as well, and found it pretty interesting.

It seems that you have over reacted, the gun owners and makes have long sense been dead. As far as i can tell, neather the owner or maker is in an Islamist extremists.. well atleast they didn't mention that in the article..

But to each there own.
 
You state "There are large numbers of innocent people who are dead at the hands of Islamists". True, but nowhere near the number of innocent people who are dead at the hands of our neocon ideologists. Nowhere close.

And to think some people wonder why the western world is falling down the ***hole...
 
Damn, why don't you people beat the crap out of me.....

Ok, I'm the OP, and after taking a few deep breaths, and reading & contemplating all the responding posts, I'll admit that I should wear the mantle of over reaction.

I admit that an ancient flintlock has little to do with what is still going on over there.

But my dislike of G&A's timing in releasing this article.....releasing it while our people are dying in country.....that remains.....it's a topic that could have waited until this conflict has burned itself out.....but they didn't....and I need to get over it. I will also concede that I shouldn't have had such a knee-jerk reaction over it.

White flag, folks. I have asked G&A to re-instate my subscription and they have done so.
 
I read the article and liked it. Worked in the middle east for many years and saw a lot of old guns in museums. The Arabs I worked with found out about my interest in guns and several of them showed me their family heirlooms.
 
Damn, why don't you people beat the crap out of me.....

Ok, I'm the OP, and after taking a few deep breaths, and reading & contemplating all the responding posts, I'll admit that I should wear the mantle of over reaction.

I admit that an ancient flintlock has little to do with what is still going on over there.

But my dislike of G&A's timing in releasing this article.....releasing it while our people are dying in country.....that remains.....it's a topic that could have waited until this conflict has burned itself out.....but they didn't....and I need to get over it. I will also concede that I shouldn't have had such a knee-jerk reaction over it.

White flag, folks. I have asked G&A to re-instate my subscription and they have done so.

I am still not with you on the timing issue but I must commend your response. It takes quite a bit of courage and humility to say what you just said and for that you have gained allot of respect from me.
 
NASCAR_MAN wrote:

Thanks for your replies, for your “so-called” arguments deriding those who have an unfavorable view of the Koran eloquently illustrate how many on the left view Gun Rights advocates: incapable of understanding reality -- living in fear -- “sub-clinically” paranoid. Actually, these aren’t even arguments – they are in effect ad Hominem meant to characterize those who disagree as “mentally deranged”.

Err ... I think you must be thinking of someone else. Else you totally mischaracterize what I said and misinterpret what I think :)

I said nothing (nor implied, nor meant to imply anything) about sub-clinical paranoia, nor derided those with an unfavorable opinion of the Koran. I've been accused of both of those things (that is, paranoia, and holding too critical a view of the Koran), and can only shrug my shoulders in response: I don't consider caution, skepticism or prudence to be paranoia, and to me the Koran seems at least as poisonous as many other religious texts -- more so in some respects. So, I'm not sure what you're on about.

Them's the breaks, sometimes.

timothy
 
Err ... I think you must be thinking of someone else. Else you totally mischaracterize what I said and misinterpret what I think

Actually, I don't think so considering your previous post....

Sadly enough, there *are* organized hate-mongers (of various stripes) in the world, some of them determined enough / persuasive enough to drive people to senseless acts of violence, or sometimes ("merely") to blinding prejudice.

Organized hate-monger? No...I don't think so.

All I ask is that everyone read the Koran - seek the message of the prophet (PBUH) - and then they will know the truth (and a hideous truth it is).

Simple...huh? Just read the Koran!

NASCAR
 
NASCAR_MAN:

Yep, you misinterpret me; sorry about that. You seem to think I was calling you or someone you agree with a hate-monger. That may or may not be the case, but I was thinking specifically of Imams who convince young people to blow themselves up in order to kill others.

Have a peaceful day --

timothy
 
Great article and beautiful firearms.

Does being practicing Islam make one a terrorist? This is the type of bigoted thinking that gives us (firearms enthuisiasts) a bad name.
 
Yep, you misinterpret me; sorry about that. You seem to think I was calling you or someone you agree with a hate-monger. That may or may not be the case, but I was thinking specifically of Imams who convince young people to blow themselves up in order to kill others.

In that case...yes, I misinterperated you. Like I said, most Muslims are peaceful...and this is a positive statement about Human Nature (i.e., we generally seek peace).

However, if we should not read the Koran, then we should not understand those who want to kill us? Correct?

NASCAR
 
Thanks for your replies, for your “so-called” arguments deriding those who have an unfavorable view of the Koran eloquently illustrate how many on the left view Gun Rights advocates: incapable of understanding reality -- living in fear -- “sub-clinically” paranoid. Actually, these aren’t even arguments – they are in effect ad Hominem meant to characterize those who disagree as “mentally deranged”.

NASCAR MAN, You have created a straw man argument here. In my post I do not in any way characterize those who have an "unfavorable view of the Koran" as incapable of understanding reality, nor do I claim such people are sub-clinically paranoid. I say this of those who think there is even a remote danger of America being enslaved by Muslims or that Muslims (or even a substantial minority of Muslims) even want to do so.

I will often say – “If you don’t believe me, then read the Koran”. But few take me up on this offer…and people like yourself will even counter that understanding the Koran can only be fully realized via additional, external literature (i.e., the exegesis to which you refer) even though the Koran specifies that such literature is a “perversion” (Reference Sura 3.7).

As for your claim that The Qur'an forbids exegesis, rather than go into a rather dry discourse on various verses, I will simply point out that at no point in the history of Islam, even back to the days of the Prophet Muhammad himself, will you find Muslims interpreting Sura 3:7 or any other verse to mean that the Qur'an must be understood in a vacuum without explanation or scholarship. In fact, knowledge of historical context to the various verses as well as an understanding of the Prophet Muhammad's own explanations of what verses mean is considered crucial to understanding of the Qur'an almost universally amongst Muslims.

While I agree with you that reading the Qur'an is a good first step toward understanding Islam, I disagree with the interpretation you have placed on your own reading. We all understand everything we are exposed to through a filter of our own experiences and prejudices. Simply reading an English translation of the Qur'an with no other input is not a recipe for understanding. Have you ever asked Muslims what they think it means? After all, if I genuinely want to understand Christian beliefs, I'm not just going to pick a random version of the Bible and interpret it according to my own limited perspective (especially if that perspective is already negative), nor will I ask a militant atheist or an Orthodox Jew what Christians believe or what the Bible says. I'd probably find a much better understanding by asking knowledgable practicing Christians. The same applies to any other faith.
 
jkingrph,
I was in Turkey this October, and had a really great time. I saw the western half of the country, but met some Italians that had been over by the Iranian/Iraq border and they felt safe. I wouldn't hesitate to go back!
 
jkingrph,
I was in Turkey this October, and had a really great time. I saw the western half of the country, but met some Italians that had been over by the Iranian/Iraq border and they felt safe. I wouldn't hesitate to go back!
 
Hooray that G&A actually published a new article that isn't a puff-piece review of one of their advertisers products or something else that is recycled or otherwise beaten to death by all the other gun magazines.
 
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