Guns and stuff made in China

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goColt

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I don't want to start a flame war or insult anyone, but something has been bothering me for quite a while. I know we all (I hope) here are patriots in the strictest sense of the word and probably all think the US is the best country on earth. With that being said, does anyone else think it is a problem to buy guns (as well as other stuff) from arguably the biggest threat to the US both militarily and economically . . . CHINA. I sometimes you don't have a choice because it is hard/impossible to get some things that are not made in China. Electronics is a huge one, but guns isn't. I know that price is usually a BIG determining factor, but I hate giving ANY money to our enemies. Which is why I don’t buy European guns either!! :evil:

I know it is hard to find stuff made in the good ol' USA anymore, but it can be done if you look hard enough and are willing to pay a little more to keep the US economy going and fellow Americans employed. The quality is usually better too. Don't get me wrong, capitalism is great and I shop for the cheapest deal I can get, as long as quality and my conscience does not suffer. Anyway, that is my rant. I'd like to hear some responses to and rebuttals of my argument.

Thanks and I hope I didn't PO anyone.

Chris
 
I have no problem buying from allies or former enemes like Russia. I will NOT buy firearms or ammo from the Chicoms. They are an evil empire and they pose a serious military risk to us--a risk that will only grow over the decades to come.
 
I don't buy Chi-Com slave labor goods;

whether its Norinco firearms or the dreck Wal-Mart peddles. :barf:

Mind you, it is VERY difficult NOT to buy Chinese goods, especially in lighting fixtures and home furnishings. Check out your computer parts, especially speakers. :scrutiny:

To the extent I can avoid aiding and abetting the largest potential threat this country faces, I do so. :cool:
 
The idea you think you would offend anyone is telling to me as a senior citizen, 30 years ago consumers advoided anything from china, now that is about all WalMart sells, in truth I feel most of there products are "rough" working products but not up to the standards I expect.

The American consumer along with greedy business continue to sell America
down the tubes, exporting jobs, importing people, really it seems without
future thought to this countries quality of life. Clearly we live in a greed
driven world and I have fear that issue alone will ruin a great country.
:cuss:
 
The US has had an arms embargo on China for 15 years. I think their rem 870 knockoff shotguns were exempted but that's about it.
 
Which is why I don’t buy European guns either!!
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As long as they aren't French or Chinese, or maybe German (Schroeder, anyone? :rolleyes: ) I have no issue with Soviet stuff made during the Now-Defunct USSR, or old Nazi regime Mausers, since Nazis aren't in power anymore (unless any Anti's count :neener: ),but YMMV.
 
I've been ranting about buying stuff from China for a couple of years. I refuse to shop at Walmart because they carry so much Chinese stuff.
The US has lost so many jobs that have been outsourced to China, and I agree, they are one of our biggest threats.
They have one of the world's worst human rights records, and I don't think we should be doing any business with them whatsoever. I check clothing tags and don't buy stuff if it says it's made in China.

We even allowed Taiwan, democracy, to be kicked out of the UN. We should tell the UN to go to h*ll and kick them out of the US also, but that's another rant.
 
I work for a major US electronics company that, in the past 10 years, has transferred virtually ALL production to China. That said, I find it REAL HARD to avoid buying products made in China.

For example, have you tried to buy a small electric appliance lately? I make a "hobby" of sorts to cruise the housewares dept. while the wife is shopping elsewhere in the store, noting the sources of the various products offered for sale. In my informal survey of country of origin, I think that about 19 out of 20 small appliances are made in China. The rest are made in Mexico.

When it comes to TV's, stereo's, and other consumer electronics, the ratio is not QUITE as high, but it's probably 6 out of 10 or more. Again, NOTHING is made here, but some stuff is still made in Singapore, Korea, and VERY little in Japan.

Now try looking at power tools. Probably 1/2 of that stuff is Chinese in origin now. (I don't mind buying stuff from Mexico, like DeWalt offers, but I'll be damned if I will buy Ryobi stuff made in China.)

In a nutshell, what I am saying is that, for those of us trying to avoid buying stuff from China, it's almost a loosing battle.

As my wife says, "I won't buy anything from a country that runs over it's people with tanks."
 
Don't like people who run over their citizens with tanks. Then stop buying American -- they used AFVs against people in Waco, TX! China may be a messed up place in many ways, but people I know who do business there say that the climate is far more business-friendly and capitalist than in many parts of the US.
 
The US has had an arms embargo on China for 15 years.
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And yet if my memory serves me correctly it wasn't long ago I read here on the high road that the USA gave a small arms contract to China for re-plentishing the Iraq security forces. ( I think we ran over a bunch of there original stockage with our tanks ? )

Ain't life full of irony ? lol
 
Don't like people who run over their citizens with tanks. Then stop buying American -- they used AFVs against people in Waco, TX! China may be a messed up place in many ways, but people I know who do business there say that the climate is far more business-friendly and capitalist than in many parts of the US.
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+1, big-time. China today is no more a Communist state than California is.

- Chris
 
I buy the better product, period. Just because it might be American, doesn't automatically mean it's on equal footing or superior to a product made outside the US of A. Every company, no matter country of origin, is equally capable of putting out a piece of junk product.

If I'm going to pay a premium for a US-made product based solely on the fact it is US-made, it better be equal or superior to it's foreign competitors. I will not pay more money for an inferior product. I don't see why I should pay more for a product when that company refuses to equal or best their competitors.

I have no problems buying most stuff made in the USA that I use often and abuse. Craftsman, Snap-On, etc, anything tool related in my garage is 95% made in the USA with a lifetime you-break-it-we-replace-it warranty. Good luck trying to get warranty service or factory recalibration on a $20 foreign-made torque wrench. You can't even hunt down the company if you tried.

However, there are many situations where I couldn't care less where the product came from. I bought a jeweler's screwdriver set at the dollar store for repairing glasses, watches, and the like. I use it maybe once a year to tighten up a small screw here and there. It was made in China and works well for the occasional job. I'm not going to pay $53.99 for a set of Starrett jeweler's screwdriver set if I only use it once a year.
 
China today is no more a Communist state than California is.
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Say what? California tortures and executes dissidents, and then sells their organs? California arrests and beats people up for merely talking about controversial issues on the internet? California has mandatory abortions for women with too many babies? This cultural relativism stuff really makes my head hurt sometimes.

Here's one example: link
Amnesty International
China
Woman sentenced to ‘re-education’

Mao Hengfeng, a mother of two, was forced to have an abortion and dismissed from her job when she became pregnant for a third time 15 years ago, in contravention of China’s family-planning policies. Since then, she has repeatedly followed official procedures to petition the authorities about her dismissal and the treatment she suffered at the hands of the police. Because of this, she has been detained several times, and confined in psychiatric hospitals where she has been forced to undergo shock therapy.

In April 2004, Mao Hengfeng was sent to 18 months’ "re-education through labour" because of her continued petitioning of the authorities. She has reportedly been tortured on at least two occasions. Once she was tied up, suspended from a ceiling and beaten. In November 2004 she was strapped at her wrists and ankles for two days, while officials pulled her limbs in different directions, demanding she acknowledge her "wrongdoing".

In late December 2004 Mao Hengfeng’s sentence of 18 months in a "re-education through labour" camp, imposed without charge or trial, was extended by three months. The extension was reportedly authorized by "people in a senior position". Mao Hengfeng and her family were not allowed to see the authorizing documents. Therefore, it is not known precisely why or by whom the sentence was extended.

It is thought, however, that Mao Hengfeng’s refusal to confess to any "wrongdoing", even under torture, or to sign documents acknowledging that she had undergone "thought reform" in detention, are factors which may have contributed to the extension. Officials at the camp have also threatened her with reduced family visits if she continues to refuse to "confess".

AI fears that Mao Hengfeng’s extended sentence puts her at grave risk of further torture.
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Technically, Kurush, communism as a political-economic philosophy does not include torture, execution or any of the other things you mention. These were added in by the totalitarians that controlled the major communist countries of the 20th century.

Torture was not even mentioned in the Communist Manifesto.

I think the point Chris Rhines was making is that China's communism is becoming replaced by a more capitalistic approach.

Human rights violations are another matter entirely. Clearly, China has major problems with this. It makes more sense to oppose China on the grounds of human rights violations, than because of communism.

Please don't misconstrue my comments as support for communism, because I don't. But I do believe that China is rapidly becoming less communist. It has not however, become much less totalitarian, and it does not seem to have improved in the human rights area. China will be our biggest enemy for the foreseeable future.
 
It makes more sense to oppose China on the grounds of human rights violations, than because of communism.
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It is the communism that enables the human rights abuses.
 
I apologise to all you flag waving patriots. You are doing this country a disservice if you buy inferior products for inflated prices because of them being produced here. I think capitalism will work, without the flags.

Consider when VW, and Toyota, and Nissan first came to this country. Our big three carmakers responded with the pinto, the vega and the horizon. They were unreliable, expensive, and disposable. A lot of us "bought American" so they never did really compete, back then. Look around, they never did produce any competition. Cars with a life expectancy of ten years/100,000 miles and an expected maintenance cost of 100$ per month are not "economy" cars.

Buy the best you can for the least amount of money. Make ALL companies compete for your dollar. We are a resourceful people, and I think we can compete, WHEN we are pushed, and FORCED to.
 
I think the point Chris Rhines was making is that China's communism is becoming replaced by a more capitalistic approach.
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This bears repeating.

Buying goods and services from China is beneficial to both the US and China. Far too many people seem to think that econ is a zero-sum game, which is patently untrue.

China's economy is, for a nation of that size, very very quickly coming to embrace the free market, and I can't help but laugh at those who rant and rave about the Chinese Communists but then turn right around and support tariffs, trade embargos, higher corporate taxation, and then have the gall to carp about offshoring and outsourcing.

In my more cynical moments, I can't help but think that China and the United States are nothing more than ships passing in the night.
 
"Don't like people who run over their citizens with tanks. Then stop buying American -- they used AFVs "against people in Waco, TX!"

Give me a break. :rolleyes:

I'm not going to defend a bunch macho fools who thought they might muscle a cult. But, people who disgree with the U.S. government don't just disappear quite as often as they do in China. Millions of people have never taken bullets to the back of the head in this country! Waco was a molehill compared to China's killings.

But a good business climate evens it out, right?
 
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