stevereno1
Member
They believe that hunting is murder, and call murder "choice"
Guns are for liberals, too
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Roswell 1847
member
The so-called Liberals of today are closet Radicals who grew up admiring the bank robbers and bombers of the sixties, and still believe that the North Vietnamese liberated the South Vietnamese from Capitalist domination.
They are all for guns, just as long as they would be the only ones to have them.
And anyone who still buys into the 2000 election conspiracy theory is fit for a sportcoat with wraparound sleeves.
They are all for guns, just as long as they would be the only ones to have them.
And anyone who still buys into the 2000 election conspiracy theory is fit for a sportcoat with wraparound sleeves.
stevereno1
Member
Dubious, a nice setting, but liberalism is after EVERY free right that we hold dear. Study up, and then leave the libertarian lost cause and defeat commun.. I mean sociali.. I mean liberalism!
Nolo
Member
Who is "they"?
I found a Liberal one time who was a Libertarian in every way except that he was registered as a Democrat because none of the Libertarian candidates ever have a shot in Hell at winning. He preferred the Democrats to the Republicans for reasons unknown to me, be he was certainly a rational, realistic person.
If "they" are the tofu-loving (don't take this too strongly, I myself love tofu, having spent the first three years of my life in Japan) vegan hippies, well then you are also wrong. They are just heavily misguided and sometimes insane.
If you are talking about the Democratic leadership, then I really couldn't agree with you more.
Of course, the same thing can be said for the Republican leadership.
I found a Liberal one time who was a Libertarian in every way except that he was registered as a Democrat because none of the Libertarian candidates ever have a shot in Hell at winning. He preferred the Democrats to the Republicans for reasons unknown to me, be he was certainly a rational, realistic person.
If "they" are the tofu-loving (don't take this too strongly, I myself love tofu, having spent the first three years of my life in Japan) vegan hippies, well then you are also wrong. They are just heavily misguided and sometimes insane.
If you are talking about the Democratic leadership, then I really couldn't agree with you more.
Of course, the same thing can be said for the Republican leadership.
Let's see, Steverno's definitely covering a all the liberal bases here! 
Well... at least this topic is an appropriate place to discuss politics.
Severino, I know you're pissed off at liberals, but do you want to win the battle against gun control or not?
Jeez, I bet all the liberals in your neighborhood are just lining up to go learn about shooting from you! How many people have you persuaded with that kind of talk? Does it get you anywhere or just alienate you?
Well... at least this topic is an appropriate place to discuss politics.
Severino, I know you're pissed off at liberals, but do you want to win the battle against gun control or not?
Jeez, I bet all the liberals in your neighborhood are just lining up to go learn about shooting from you! How many people have you persuaded with that kind of talk? Does it get you anywhere or just alienate you?
Nolo
Member
Dubious has the right idea.
stevereno1
Member
I don't give a quart of beaver piss who wants to shoot with me or be my friend. the facts is facts, and I cant change them.
nwilliams
Member
I see this thread being closed very soon...
Too bad some people have to ruin it for everyone, may I suggest that you sometimes think about what you post before you post maybe it will dawn on you that its not THR appropriate.
Just a suggestion, some of you need to cool down and lighten up, we're all supposed to be friends on here, so lets keep it friendly.
That's my rant, I'm out before things get out of control.
Too bad some people have to ruin it for everyone, may I suggest that you sometimes think about what you post before you post maybe it will dawn on you that its not THR appropriate.
Just a suggestion, some of you need to cool down and lighten up, we're all supposed to be friends on here, so lets keep it friendly.
That's my rant, I'm out before things get out of control.
stevereno1
Member
There are NO liberals that believe that the second ammendment grants the rights of the individuals to keep and bear arms! None!, Zero, Nada! First chance, they'll try to disarm us like hitler did in germany. I'll die for it if need be.
Nolo
Member
I'm with Williams.
-Nolo out.
-Nolo out.
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
What's In A Name
Evidently there is some disparity of opinion regarding that "liberal" is.
Word's been kind of co-opted, so it's hard to use in a conversation without hitting a Humpty-Dumpty discontinuity: [the word] means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.
So people who espouse personal liberty call themselves "liberals" while others who, in contrast, espouse personal liberty instead, call themselves "conservatives" while asserting that "liberals" are evil.
Just don't lean over too far on that wall, I hear the king's men still don't have a glue that works.
So far the discussion has managed to remain civil, but has begun to wander off into political turf (like that was a big leap) with borderline name calling.
So, if we could please, could we exert a little less effort toward missing the point, and get back to the "everybody needs a gun" regardless of social or political leanings, because no matter which of your personal liberties you value most, you have to be able to defend it when the tyrant du jour shows up.
Productive discussion = thread stays open.
Name calling, political ranting = thread lock.
We need persuasion. Red-faced jutting-chin spittle-spraying discourse won't get us there.
So, back to you.
I'll just stand over here with my hand on the switch . . .
Evidently there is some disparity of opinion regarding that "liberal" is.
Word's been kind of co-opted, so it's hard to use in a conversation without hitting a Humpty-Dumpty discontinuity: [the word] means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.
So people who espouse personal liberty call themselves "liberals" while others who, in contrast, espouse personal liberty instead, call themselves "conservatives" while asserting that "liberals" are evil.
Just don't lean over too far on that wall, I hear the king's men still don't have a glue that works.
So far the discussion has managed to remain civil, but has begun to wander off into political turf (like that was a big leap) with borderline name calling.
So, if we could please, could we exert a little less effort toward missing the point, and get back to the "everybody needs a gun" regardless of social or political leanings, because no matter which of your personal liberties you value most, you have to be able to defend it when the tyrant du jour shows up.
Productive discussion = thread stays open.
Name calling, political ranting = thread lock.
We need persuasion. Red-faced jutting-chin spittle-spraying discourse won't get us there.
So, back to you.
I'll just stand over here with my hand on the switch . . .
Really? What about this one that thinks we should be able to buy machineguns, RPGs, and grenades over the counter? Fact is, you need liberals like me to vote against Democrats in order to preserve your RKBA. How about you be a little more accepting of those with different viewpoints than your own?
Millwright
Member
Actually, I think the terms selected to describe alleged opposing blocs are spurious and misleading. Both of our leading parties, Republicans and Democrats, have liberal and conservative factions within their structure.
IMO, more concise descriptions might be socialist and libertarians. The former is a commonly accepted term denoting those seeing greater and more invasive/intrusive government as the solution to various social ills and problems. The latter more commonly sees solutions of these problems as being primarily the responsibility individuals. >MW
IMO, more concise descriptions might be socialist and libertarians. The former is a commonly accepted term denoting those seeing greater and more invasive/intrusive government as the solution to various social ills and problems. The latter more commonly sees solutions of these problems as being primarily the responsibility individuals. >MW
Roswell 1847
member
The title has been hijacked not the sentiment. I know a few actual liberals, not phoney closet socialist and communist sympathezers like the majority of the most vocal "Liberals" (you can envision waggling two fingers of each hand). And yes these actual Liberals own guns and we go shooting often, they are also people that can understand the arguments against abortion and are ardent in their faith in God.
The title of Liberal has been hijacked by political opportunists that recognize that far too many people these days are ready to sacrifice the lives and freedoms of their fellow citizens in order to build up a fantasy of "protecting" "rights" that the citizen has never really had and which are not a part of the life of the responsible citizenry.
They've tried to redefine Life itself to support un necessary abortions. They've tried to redefine marriage to supposedly cater to a tiny minority of an even tinier minority. ETC.
The title of Liberal has been hijacked by political opportunists that recognize that far too many people these days are ready to sacrifice the lives and freedoms of their fellow citizens in order to build up a fantasy of "protecting" "rights" that the citizen has never really had and which are not a part of the life of the responsible citizenry.
They've tried to redefine Life itself to support un necessary abortions. They've tried to redefine marriage to supposedly cater to a tiny minority of an even tinier minority. ETC.
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Guns . . . Gun Rights . . . Persuasion
Nudge . . .
Nudge . . .
Less political philosphy, more protection of liberties and rights, please.
Nudge . . .
Nudge . . .
Less political philosphy, more protection of liberties and rights, please.
6_gunner
Member
There is a great deal of confusion in politics today, and I think that much of it due to a misunderstanding of what different political labels really mean. "Liberal" and "conservative" may mean completely different things to different people. Here are three points which I think really clarify things.
1. On the political spectrum, far left indicates total government control and far right indicates anarchy. To equate "right wing" with Nazism or facism, as many people often do, is stupid. Nazism or facism is just as leftist as Communism.
2. The labels "liberal" and "conservative" meant very different things to the founding fathers than they do to us today. Classical liberalism was probably more like Libertarianism than it was to the modern ideas of either "liberal" or "conservative." I prefer to use the terms "left wing" or "right wing" rather than "liberal" and "conservative," because I feel that it is much less ambiguous.
3. The range of political beliefs has moved to the left in the last two centuries. The most "right wing" mainstream politician today would probably still be to the left of any of the founding fathers.
1. On the political spectrum, far left indicates total government control and far right indicates anarchy. To equate "right wing" with Nazism or facism, as many people often do, is stupid. Nazism or facism is just as leftist as Communism.
2. The labels "liberal" and "conservative" meant very different things to the founding fathers than they do to us today. Classical liberalism was probably more like Libertarianism than it was to the modern ideas of either "liberal" or "conservative." I prefer to use the terms "left wing" or "right wing" rather than "liberal" and "conservative," because I feel that it is much less ambiguous.
3. The range of political beliefs has moved to the left in the last two centuries. The most "right wing" mainstream politician today would probably still be to the left of any of the founding fathers.
Titan6
member
I guess somebody will have to let Derek Z know he is no longer a supporter of gun rights 
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.Nitrogen
Member
There are many things that you can have a decent discussion about; and be able to see both sides of the issue logically.
Guns and gun control isn't one of them. More and more liberals realise that every day.
This one did 10 years ago.
Guns and gun control isn't one of them. More and more liberals realise that every day.
This one did 10 years ago.
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Well, Shucks
And so, on that note, given the insistence on talking politics and political philosphy, rather than talking guns, gun rights, personal liberty as it relates to gun rights, the importance of persuading politically disparate groups that gun rights are vital to their goals, and such other gun-related stuff . . .
I guess we're done here.
Come on, guys, really.
I tried to give you a shot.
You're gonna make me look bad in front of Justin and Art.
And so, on that note, given the insistence on talking politics and political philosphy, rather than talking guns, gun rights, personal liberty as it relates to gun rights, the importance of persuading politically disparate groups that gun rights are vital to their goals, and such other gun-related stuff . . .
I guess we're done here.
Come on, guys, really.
I tried to give you a shot.
You're gonna make me look bad in front of Justin and Art.
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