Guns captured on the way to Mexico (video)
- Thread starter nwilliams
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lionking
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akodo has made the case that prohibition works and in some cases he mentioned it does but when it comes to vices like gambling,sex and consumption of alchohol or drugs it doesn't work that well witness the drug war,witness the 20's and 30's,witness the fact that cops spend their time undercover going to a strip club to make sure a dancer doesn't get too close....
Besides the occasional lunatic the drug war is the greatest threat to gun ownership,because violence with guns is a bi-product of it.We spend billions of dollars trying to legislate morality and it is a utter failure while at the same time creating a billion dollar black market that fuels death and violence for the sake of sparing death from drug usage?
We fought a war in Columbia now it shifted to Mexico and will just shift to somewhere else if we fight it in Mexico.At the same time Mexico prohibition on firearms fuels their own blackmarket for guns,yet cartels will get them anywhere they need even if supply is cut off from the USA.
People say that drug usage will increase alot with legalization I don't agree,back in the 1800's there wasn't awareness of drugs like today,would you go buy cocaine if it was legal knowing what it does to you?,I doubt it.But those that want it will get it legal or not.
We would be much better off fighting a campaign against usage while legal and using the billions we spend on rehabilitation.Guy gets a drug charge and becomes hard to even get a job with a record,and in part because of that just goes to spend more giving violent gangs even more money.
Yeah we can be like a police state like akodo mentioned other places are but what is the cost for that?Freedom is.
Besides the occasional lunatic the drug war is the greatest threat to gun ownership,because violence with guns is a bi-product of it.We spend billions of dollars trying to legislate morality and it is a utter failure while at the same time creating a billion dollar black market that fuels death and violence for the sake of sparing death from drug usage?
We fought a war in Columbia now it shifted to Mexico and will just shift to somewhere else if we fight it in Mexico.At the same time Mexico prohibition on firearms fuels their own blackmarket for guns,yet cartels will get them anywhere they need even if supply is cut off from the USA.
People say that drug usage will increase alot with legalization I don't agree,back in the 1800's there wasn't awareness of drugs like today,would you go buy cocaine if it was legal knowing what it does to you?,I doubt it.But those that want it will get it legal or not.
We would be much better off fighting a campaign against usage while legal and using the billions we spend on rehabilitation.Guy gets a drug charge and becomes hard to even get a job with a record,and in part because of that just goes to spend more giving violent gangs even more money.
Yeah we can be like a police state like akodo mentioned other places are but what is the cost for that?Freedom is.
I find it hard to believe that all of these weapons are being purchased here in the US and being smuggled back to mexico. Do you think that a gun is going to be cheaper in the US or Mexico? If I wanted/needed to purchase a bunch of black-market guns, I would think that you could get them cheaper in mexico, and probably have a bigger supply. This is an assumption, though.
Legalizing pot? paleeez... I believe Amsterdam just repealled their pot shops and stuff because of the very reason of why we don't legalize it...crime in the area, criminals in the area, resulting in an area that doesn't look inviting to tourists. They want the tourists to come back so they fix the problem, and the problem is that drugs don't do anything positive for society, so they're getting rid of the pot shops. These uneducated opinions about mind altering substances not causing problems for society is pure stupidity at it's finest. Alcohol is legal, yet it is a factor in roughly 40% of all crime committed in the US...even when you break crimes down into their categories, alcohol still stays at ~40%. So let's add to the problem and make pot legal too...stupids. :banghead:
Legalizing pot? paleeez... I believe Amsterdam just repealled their pot shops and stuff because of the very reason of why we don't legalize it...crime in the area, criminals in the area, resulting in an area that doesn't look inviting to tourists. They want the tourists to come back so they fix the problem, and the problem is that drugs don't do anything positive for society, so they're getting rid of the pot shops. These uneducated opinions about mind altering substances not causing problems for society is pure stupidity at it's finest. Alcohol is legal, yet it is a factor in roughly 40% of all crime committed in the US...even when you break crimes down into their categories, alcohol still stays at ~40%. So let's add to the problem and make pot legal too...stupids. :banghead:
Deus Machina
Member
Well, the thing is, everyone that would do something stupid while high already does. The same as drunks, and the same as gun-related crime.
Legalize it and make the stupidity illegal, not the substance or item itself, and remove the criminal element associated with it by removing their income.
Then, run up the punishment for doing anything harsher--herion or murder, in these arguments.
Legalize marijuana, and we may actually come out ahead of the 'war on drugs', because we could tax the heck out of it like we do tobacco and alcohol.
Anyway, as for the calibers, AFAIK, 5.7 and .38 Super are not and have never been 'military calibers' as the Mexican government sees them, which would make them illegal. I doubt the cartels care about the legality, but that means that 1) if they're caught and that's all they have on them, they won't be punished as harshly, 2) it would be easier to sell them to otherwise law-abiding Mexicans, and C) ammo would be more available down there.
Legalize it and make the stupidity illegal, not the substance or item itself, and remove the criminal element associated with it by removing their income.
Then, run up the punishment for doing anything harsher--herion or murder, in these arguments.
Legalize marijuana, and we may actually come out ahead of the 'war on drugs', because we could tax the heck out of it like we do tobacco and alcohol.
Anyway, as for the calibers, AFAIK, 5.7 and .38 Super are not and have never been 'military calibers' as the Mexican government sees them, which would make them illegal. I doubt the cartels care about the legality, but that means that 1) if they're caught and that's all they have on them, they won't be punished as harshly, 2) it would be easier to sell them to otherwise law-abiding Mexicans, and C) ammo would be more available down there.
Yes, and of course, the gangs, the mob, and other criminals types will not try to capitalize on this? Cigarettes are completely legal, and yet there is a massive market for them. All you'd be doing is making it more available for criminals to get their hands on...they just won't have to smuggle it anymore.
Not true. Compare to guns. Most of us here will not try to obtain an illegal class III weapon, but if you took the restrictions away and made them available at 7-11, you will have a massive market for them. There are many people out there who don't do drugs because of the legality of it...you make it legal and you'll have a lot more users, and the current users will be doing more since the access is greater.
Vegaslaith
Member
Hard drugs like cocaine and heroine aside, the "War on Drugs" should end the same way prohibition did. Marijuana has no where near the harmful qualities of other narcotics. It is a complete and utter waste of time/money. Frankly I'm suprised that many members of a pro-gun, and supposedly pro-liberty site would feel much differently.
Deus Machina
Member
And that's kind of the point, isn't it? Explain how the gangs, thugs, and mob capitalize on cigarettes and hooch now. Prohibition brought in bootlegging, and the mob-owned rings of underground speakeasies. Maybe the mob 'insures' bars now, but they do the same for dry cleaners.
Not true. Compare to guns. Most of us here will not try to obtain an illegal class III weapon, but if you took the restrictions away and made them available at 7-11, you will have a massive market for them.
Well, I didn't say to make sale unconditional. You'd still need to be of age, and i still think background checks are a good idea. Besides you are right in that most of us pass up the NFA and full-auto stuff, but how many of us do you think would go kill someone or accidentally put a hole through the wall with an M16 that wouldn't with their Remington?
True, but the same holds true for drinkers.
The people that don't smoke pot because of the legality are, in general--and it pains me to say this, because it contradicts my views of humanity as a whole--smart people. If they wouldn't do it because it's illegal, what are the chances that they would get stoned out of their gourd, then go and end up rear-ending someone at McDonald's to feed their munchies?
No, addicts smoke despite it being illegal, drunks drink and drive despite the legality and stupidity, and junkies are still junkies. People that don't smoke pot right now because of the legality generally don't drink and drive, and I for one think that means they won't smoke and drive or otherwise use it irresponsibly.
As for the harder drugs, keep those punishments the same, or require rehab the first time, then a harsh punishment after that. Those are still harmful, and will as such always require the criminal element to acquire them. At least the addictive qualities of marijuana are almost purely mental, and it causes only a small percentage of the damage to your body that cigarettes do.
And I've known a few throughout my school days--you can tell a pothead even when they're sober and often before they even start the stuff.
chris in va
Member
Legalize pot...heh. We have alcohol under sales control, look what happens with that mess. Drunk drivers, assaults, doing stupid things they'd never do sober etc.
So let's have people abusing the stuff, that's just great.
So let's have people abusing the stuff, that's just great.
Deus Machina
Member
Oh, it's not like they don't. But at least if it's legal the worst abuse will be tying up the phone lines to Pizza Hut.
True, but the same holds true for drinkers.
The people that don't smoke pot because of the legality are, in general--and it pains me to say this, because it contradicts my views of humanity as a whole--smart people. If they wouldn't do it because it's illegal, what are the chances that they would get stoned out of their gourd, then go and end up rear-ending someone at McDonald's to feed their munchies?
No, addicts smoke despite it being illegal, drunks drink and drive despite the legality and stupidity, and junkies are still junkies. People that don't smoke pot right now because of the legality generally don't drink and drive, and I for one think that means they won't smoke and drive or otherwise use it irresponsibly.
I don't know if you realize it but that is the same argument they use to fight CCW laws. If people are allowed to carry a gun there will be massive gun battles and shootings. I don't think it would happen. The vast majority of people will act responsibly.
The people that don't smoke pot because of the legality are, in general--and it pains me to say this, because it contradicts my views of humanity as a whole--smart people. If they wouldn't do it because it's illegal, what are the chances that they would get stoned out of their gourd, then go and end up rear-ending someone at McDonald's to feed their munchies?
No, addicts smoke despite it being illegal, drunks drink and drive despite the legality and stupidity, and junkies are still junkies. People that don't smoke pot right now because of the legality generally don't drink and drive, and I for one think that means they won't smoke and drive or otherwise use it irresponsibly.
I don't know if you realize it but that is the same argument they use to fight CCW laws. If people are allowed to carry a gun there will be massive gun battles and shootings. I don't think it would happen. The vast majority of people will act responsibly.
statelineblues
Member
Apparently, you don't smoke or, if you do, you don't live in a state that puts $2 to $4 tax on a pack of cigarettes (NJ, NY, CA, for example), or the same amount per bottle of alcohol.
Remember 'BATF' stands for Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms; look up how much untaxed/illegal cigs and booze they confiscated last year.
(Sorry about the thread hijack
)We need to keep deporting these folks and tighten boarder security. This also means creating a 1-mile no-mans land and anything within that area maintain authorized use of deadly force. Same damn thing we do with our Nuclear weapon silos that are in ND, MT, CO, etc. Just on a tad larger area with use of rotary aircraft.
Post pics of everything and advertise heavily. This should be a decent deterrent.
Post pics of everything and advertise heavily. This should be a decent deterrent.
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