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Guns for Investment Purposes

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Rayford

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I'm not sure if there is a thread of this nature here. If there is, I would like to have the link. Thank you.

I'm interested in what guns (of whatever sort) would be most likely to increase in value over time. I am now 70 years years young and wish to leave something behind for my grandchildren that will only increase in value as time goes on.

Thanks for your kind and thoughtful response.

Rayford
 
Welcome to The High Road, Rayford.

wish to leave something behind for my grandchildren that will only increase in value as time goes on.
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In that case, you may wish to look elsewhere. While some guns certainly do go up in value and some hold their value well, there are much better investment choices.

Beware reading some of these threads, in particular the one from 2008 that advocated buying AR pattern rifles as they were certain to only go up.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=402468
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=476526
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=542405

There are plenty more if you dig around.

If you want to leave them a gun, do it because you want to pass on a shooting or hunting tradition. In that case, you'd be better off getting it now and taking them shooting while you're still around. Those memories may be worth more than just giving them a gun after you've passed on, particularly when they would have to sell the gun to realize the value.

Good luck!
 
The most valuable firearm my grandfather left me is one that he hunted with, showed me how to shoot with and I got my first deer with. To me it is priceless and will be passed on to my grandchildren. On the real market it is worth maybe $600.

Guns for the most part, do not make good returns on your investment. Stick with precious metals or other known investment strategies if you wish to make your grandkids rich. Passin' on your personal favorites, your legacy and your heritage is another story altogether.
 
I wrote an article about this called "Buy Guns Not Gold" that is fairly comprehensive about why sporting arms, including high grades, are a better investment than gold, black guns and antiques. The link is here:

http://forums.gunsamerica.com/yaf_postst130_Buy-Guns-Not-Gold--A-Better-Investment-in-the-Age-of-Uncertainty.aspx

People on THR generally request an excerpt instead of just a link so here it is:

Imagine for a minute that the United States Treasury made a million dollar bill note. You know, like a hundred with Benjamin Franklin on it, but a million instead of a hundred. Then imagine that someone gives you one of those million dollar bills, tax free, yours to keep. The only other detail is that you aren't allowed to spend any of the million bucks for ten years, but you can invest it in something or somethings for a potential return to live off of between now and then. Then, at the end of ten years you can only live off of the million bucks itself. You can't keep any of the money you make between then and now after the ten years, and that includes a return on investing the million.

It may sound complicated but it isn't. This is the story for many people facing retirement in ten years. They have a "nest egg" of principle and they need to keep the principle in tact for retirement, when they plan to live off of it. Until that time they would like to see a return on the principle, but the most important thing is to not lose that nest egg.

Would you take that million bucks and just keep it stored in that million dollar bill? Bank savings accounts have interest rates in the negatives right now and probably for the foreseeable future. You aren't losing anything by not being able to earn interest on it. It's not a bad little storage system, a million dollar bill. It is portable, compact, and you can hide it easily. Banks can fail, but do countries fail? Will that million bucks be worth a million bucks in ten years?





Would you buy gold with that million bucks? We all hear that gold is todays safest investment, but gold goes through some huge ups and downs. If you are smart you will most likely say that you would split up the million bucks across several forms of investment, to diversify your risk. But what is low risk and what is high risk today? Government bonds are thought to be low risk. You can even get some that adjust for inflation. But America is outspending its tax revenues by the trillions these days. Would you lend your money to a compulsive gambler with a AAA credit rating if you knew his income had been slashed by bad times and that he was going to continue to go to the casino with all of his borrowed money? What else would you call stimulus and bailouts other than high stakes gambling? And I don't like the house odds.

No matter which way the economy turns, someone is going to lose. That goes for putting your money in gold, real estate, stocks, bonds, US currency, foreign currency, just about everything...

Except guns.
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#46

Firearms as investments.

46. Guns are generally not the best investments. There are more profitable ways to make money in the long term. Granted, recent economic events have proven disastrous for many investments, particularly in the stock market, but over time more money can be made via traditional investments than by hoarding guns. It generally takes many years for guns to appreciate enough to make a clear profit and by then inflation has wiped out most of the gains.

----------------------------------

I suggest buying gold (despite the previous post).

I have a Colt 1911 that I bought new in 1973 for $135. Now it's worth about $600. In mint condition it would be worth around $1,000 or so. Had I bought $135 worth of gold in 1973, it would be worth about $2,000 today.

That money invested in the stock market would show even more profit by now.

Guns are not inflation proof. Inflation devalues EVERYTHING.
 
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Buy a solid property in a good area and it will way out preform firearms.

I'd recommend a high end rental, lots of good deals these days. Set it up in a trust and your grand kids will probably have their college paid by it.
 
Ammunition is probably a better investment, but in firearms I would choose anything that shoots .223 or 7.62x39.

About 10 years ago I thought about buying a few crates full of SKS rifles to keep. I wish now I would have.

Or my favorite; handguns. I would choose anything in blued steel and walnut. Polymers need not apply.
 
Yep. With the single stoke of a pen (Executive Order, or the signing of a UN Treaty), all of your guns and ammo could become worthless (or worse).

Likely? Perhaps not.
Possible? Yes.
 
Guns are not really a terrific investment insofar as making $$ or expecting them to become megavaluable.
I inherited from my father:

1.) Browning Auto 5, FN made circa 1950. Yes, it is a model no longer made, and a FN version. It's nice. But it really isn't that valuable; there are LOTS of Auto 5s out there.

2.) M-1 Carbine, Inland, 2-44 marked barrel. It saw the last year of WW2 and Korea. My father brought it back from Korea. It sat in a closet from about that time until I inherited it. The gunsmith who adjusted the rear sight for me so it would shoot straight offered to buy it as he'd never seen a carbine with an action in that good a condition.
Well, I suppose that's maybe a + 1/2. But OTOH it's an Inland and that's the most numerous version and it is not a collector desirable carbine, so maybe -2 there .....

3.) Remington 550-1 (semi-auto .22 rifle). One of Remington's less expensive .22s. Good reputation for accuracy ..... but not really valuable. Why? There are a LOT of .22 semi autos around. Woopdedo.

4.) Remington Model 17 20 gauge shotgun. This became the basis for the Ithaca 37 12 gauge shotgun; it was John Browning's last repeater shotgun design. It was old when my father owned it. It works OK but I'm a bit leery about firing it .... it's retired in favor of 12 gauge guns.

None of these guns have become spectacularly valuable. They're all common workijg guns. They are valuable to me but that's because they belonged to my father.
But the rest of the world .... they don't care.

Maybe a original 1860 Colt Army, with Nimshke engraving, solid gold plating, unfired, in near 100% condition, fully documented....now THAT would be valuable. But you'd pay for it what it's worth....and little if any gaurantee with it. For that you'd have to "have $$ to make $$$$$$$" if you know what I mean.
 
If you want to leave them some guns, go ahead. It's a nice thought.

I would NOT use guns to pass any significant part of my estate. Guns are high maintenance, and the returns likely will not match more traditional investments, - equities, debt, real estate, etc.

So they generally aren't the best of investments, but if you choose carefully they won't be a disaster and it will be more personal and maybe mean more to them than Krugaraands.

If it were me, I'd choose a high quality mint or near mint condition gun, something with history, no longer made, that includes all original packaging, tools, etc. E.G., something like a first year S&W M29 6.5" or a M57 4", or an old mint Winchester M12 high grade, or an old mint M94, many colts like a M1911 commercial .38 Super, Walther PPKs, WWII guns, Winchester 70s, etc. Guns everyone would love to own. They won't be cheap. Or high quality new guns, any that appeal to you, wouldn't be a bad choice.
 
If you're thinking of buying firearms as a financial investment, you really need to stop right now and go speak with an investment planner.

At best, most guns will simply hold their value, keeping pace with inflation.

The entire point of investing in something is so that it accrues enough value that you can sell it for more than you paid for it even after factoring for inflation.

On top of that, if you intend to "invest" in guns to a great enough extent that you could live off of the money made from selling them, you'd still have to manage them. How/where would you store them? How many guns would you have to physically take possession of in order to generate anything approaching a useful level of wealth from their sale?

Unless you're hanging out at Sotheby's, its highly unlikely you would generate that sort of money from the sale of even a dozen collector-grade guns.

Right now, even in a down economy, there are still plenty of mutual funds that are performing reasonably well.
 
Not such a good way to make money. True, some may increase in value, but just how much? Sure, pick up a $1,000 firearm, and a few years later, it's worth $1,200. Big deal:rolleyes: I'd rather just shoot and enjoy it.

Tuckerdog1
 
You need to clarify your investment intentions.How much are we talking here and how many grandkids are involved.
Like what most have stated is true,financially your not going to get a big return on your investment.Maybe what you intended wasnt that you wanted to leave them funds to retire on? If what you were looking for was a good quality firearm (perhaps with some history behind it) that will appreciate somewhat,but more impotantly will be something your grandkids will want to pass on also then we are talking a whole other animal here. My vote would be the new old standbys. By this I mean the reproduction type of firearms(a history lesson to go along with it would be nice).I too would like to leave my young ones a piece of our heritage and the knowledge of how it played a role in their history. And like you I would prefer it not turn out to be a dud.
 
As an example I just bought a series 70 reintroduction in stainless (no telling how my kids will treat it). That along with a nickle plated Colt 45 peacmaker repro.
 
It can be done, BUT...

Rayford--I have a relative who made his living for a number of years, buying and selling high-end double-bbl shotguns. However, (1) he had to become an expert on double-bbl shotguns, and study and keep up with the market on same, and (2) his weekends were almost all chewed up with gun shows at which he was a vendor. He did make money, and he did enjoy it, but it was a job of work.

As above posters have thoroughly pointed out, there are several far better investment opportunities if what you want to do is make money. As for giving the grandkids an important emotional legacy, I agree with the above posters who say take 'em hunting, take 'em shooting, and give 'em each a gun that they enjoyed with you--No money there, but they'll hang onto and cherish those guns for life!

It has been pointed out many times that no asset class out-performs dividend-paying common stocks in any given 20-year period. The downside is that there again, to make $$ in the stock market, you have to study up and keep on top of it.

There just ain't no free lunch.
 
Have you all seen Hickocks review of the Colt WWI reissue on Youtube? I think If you did a video like that along with the gun and all the trimmings it would be an perfect gift to leave your grandchildren(I'm partial to colts if ya havnt noticed)
 
If you have the funds contact the different manufactures and see what they will do for you in the custom arena.
 
All guns are different, as all "golds" are not equal ..

You can't eat either one. When it becomes illegal to shoot your food, "some" gold will still be legal. Buy that kind, and in small denominations, and also hoard silver. A golden gun with silver bullets. Even that is worth only what it will bring when sold. Recently I swapped a box of 20 .40 Silver-tips (bought @ $8) for a tank of gas, worth $45. I have also traded a Morgan $1 for that same amount of gas. Too few kids really appreciate what they inherit -- often, even their name. Invest wisely. It's almost impossible to send a gun to a safe-haven investment site, like a Swiss bank, but gold is as free as the birds to squirrel away, when you know what you are doing. Keep your precious guns in a safe-deposit box, not in your safe at home. I'll answer PMs about gold, but I am a total civilian, nothing to gain, and offering only 73-yrs worth of experience, some of it bad.
 
The market for investment grade firearms is incredibly small, liquidating firearms for profit is sometimes not even possibly without the right bidders. Gold on the other hand is easily liquidated.

Also consider the possibility that a future grandchild may not be able to legally own a firearm.
 
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I don't know how you guys can try to give out of the box investment advice about mutual funds when our country is on the precipice of a complete meltdown. What happens to the mutual fund if, like almost happened last week, one automated billion dollar transaction sends the market finally into the tailspin where it belongs. Consumer confidence is at the lowest point in 20 years and the unemployment numbers are drastically worse than the government admits. As you said, and I said in my article, guns are not going to have sharp increases in value generally, but they do easily track inflation and they will never be worth nothing, like your mutual funds might be. And compared to gold, they are not at the historically highest prices in history. No matter which way America goes guns are a great place to store you money, and if you do some research on high grade guns, you can make decent returns as well, without going to Sothebys Justin. High grade guns in the 5k-50k range change hands every day and many specific guns and engravers have the potential to make double digit returns.

You can also do research in the eclectic market for what people are starting to collect that they never used really used to, like top break turn of the century hardware store guns, or browning pistols that have had recent sharp increase in interest, and fish the online websites for sellers who don't know that these guns have increased (not that they can't go buy the blue book of course but many don't). It's a lot less risky than mutual funds when we all know life as we know it could collapse any day.
 
everyone is getting carried away...the OP wanted to leave a little something for his grandchildren....he likes guns ....so....does anyone know what a good purchase for his grandkids might be.I would think anything made in Amerca at around the $1000 level(give or take a few hundred),probably stainless or nickle plated,medium caliber (not too small,not too big)and with some wood on it.
 
Both gold and guns are likely to go up in value in the near future and probably stay that way. But I can see some futures where it will not be legal for citizens to own either one.

It's much easier to hide gold, and easier to cross a border with gold (in fact, an ounce of gold as a bribe will reportedly get you across any border in the world without papers).

On the other hand, having a supply of guns in difficult times, and being able to arm those you care about, might be the difference between life and death. Or it might get you swat-teamed.

I'd definitely get some of both with my million bucks. Put it this way, if you expect to survive the coming collapse, get more gold. If you don't expect to survive it, get more guns.
 
For the most part guns are not great investments. OTOH, guns don't lose money. If you pay $500 for a gun today, take very good care of it, it will be worth probably a little more than you bought it.

Now SKS rifles, Mosin Nagants, Mausers (guns that were really cheap about 10 years ago) are worth 2X to 3X more.

As inflation goes up the firearms you buy to day will be worth a touch more later. Also, if a SHTF scenario ever comes about they and your ammo will be worth their weight in gold.
 
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