Guns for Investment Purposes
- Thread starter Rayford
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Personal, for the OP, Grandpa:
If you want to leave your grandkids something of value for them, that will never decrease, just grab a pen and a notebook and begin like this: "The minute I saw your grandmother for the first time, I just knew in my heart that...." You take it from there. I'm 73.
If you want to leave your grandkids something of value for them, that will never decrease, just grab a pen and a notebook and begin like this: "The minute I saw your grandmother for the first time, I just knew in my heart that...." You take it from there. I'm 73.
A late, experienced opinion on gold and guns.
The SKS has been a wonderful investment opportunity for me, also. Don't think that because I like Au, that I don't own weapons. I've traded in SKS almost exclusively since before the Clinton ban, when they were selling for $99, all you could carry. I got very lucky and found four Tula Zavod guns, made in 1945. The rollmark and other provenance sold those guns for $600 apiece, in a cardboard box. That will never happen again! But with other "commodities" (your definition, which is 1/2-right) AU is facing very similar circumstances to those in the late 1970s: there is tension between the United States and Islamofascits, there is concern about inflation at home at every supermarket and gas-station, and confidence in the US $$$ is failing, world wide. And the Fed just keeps on cranking out $1000-dollar bill debts, at a billion-per-week!! During 1979 and 1980 the Au price spiked far in excess of its theoretical value, and the same could happen at any time now. If we would experience the same magnitude of RISE in the Au price as we saw then, Au could easily trade for $1,500 or more. Oh, gee, guess what?? That's where it is!! (Down $@0 today). Au may trade "sideways" for years, until the theoretical price finally catches up with the market price. Assuming the theoretical price is in the ballpark, we should not discount the possibility that the Au price could fall, or trade sideways, until the theoretical price has caught up again. But one neither gains nor loses until the Au -- or the gun -- is sold, or bought. Whether one should bet the gold price will spike as it did in 1980, or be more cautious, is entirely a personal and subjective matter. The theoretical price-model tells us only what Au is worth RELATIVE to dollars, and not what the Au price is going to be next week. Try to avoid taking payments in inflated dollars.
The SKS has been a wonderful investment opportunity for me, also. Don't think that because I like Au, that I don't own weapons. I've traded in SKS almost exclusively since before the Clinton ban, when they were selling for $99, all you could carry. I got very lucky and found four Tula Zavod guns, made in 1945. The rollmark and other provenance sold those guns for $600 apiece, in a cardboard box. That will never happen again! But with other "commodities" (your definition, which is 1/2-right) AU is facing very similar circumstances to those in the late 1970s: there is tension between the United States and Islamofascits, there is concern about inflation at home at every supermarket and gas-station, and confidence in the US $$$ is failing, world wide. And the Fed just keeps on cranking out $1000-dollar bill debts, at a billion-per-week!! During 1979 and 1980 the Au price spiked far in excess of its theoretical value, and the same could happen at any time now. If we would experience the same magnitude of RISE in the Au price as we saw then, Au could easily trade for $1,500 or more. Oh, gee, guess what?? That's where it is!! (Down $@0 today). Au may trade "sideways" for years, until the theoretical price finally catches up with the market price. Assuming the theoretical price is in the ballpark, we should not discount the possibility that the Au price could fall, or trade sideways, until the theoretical price has caught up again. But one neither gains nor loses until the Au -- or the gun -- is sold, or bought. Whether one should bet the gold price will spike as it did in 1980, or be more cautious, is entirely a personal and subjective matter. The theoretical price-model tells us only what Au is worth RELATIVE to dollars, and not what the Au price is going to be next week. Try to avoid taking payments in inflated dollars.
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BADUNAME13
Member
I got into:
Gold at $330 Per Oz,
Silver at $6 per,
SKS's at $69,
AK parts kits at $99,
FAL kits at $140,
AK mags at $2.22
FAL mags at $2.50
Hk mags at $1
AR mags (New) at $5
9mm at $3.83 per 50
.308 at UNDER $21 per battlepack.
Etc.
(Did I mention I'm under 30? So it's not like it was 1970's prices)
Now, Buying at the peak (Or even NEAR it) in ANYTHING is illogical IMHO.
As to $50K shotguns.... Moronic. Yes, there will ALWAYS be some 'old money'
but you haveto count on them not having ALREADY bought that COLLECTION of $50K shotguns (IF they even want that!) that the former internet billionare had to sell off.
too small a market.
But if for instance you had $5K in $10 Glock mags...
As to what to put our money into now... I don't know.
That's why I ended up reading this whole thing.
As to the OP:
Consider several things (Which most have already mentioned)
Things which are likely to be banned (Para FAL, AK, AR etc)
Things which are useful (Pistols)
Classics (Walther PP etc)
Combinations (Hi Powers are useful, classical, High cap etc)
As well as 'nice guns' like the CZ 452
And hunting guns like one of my WInchester Model 12's which fits many rolls.
Hope that helps.
If you find a steal on a Colt SAA or something... sure, but why not several less collectable (But more useful, and not having appriciated so much) S&W revolvers insted?
Hope this helps.
Gold at $330 Per Oz,
Silver at $6 per,
SKS's at $69,
AK parts kits at $99,
FAL kits at $140,
AK mags at $2.22
FAL mags at $2.50
Hk mags at $1
AR mags (New) at $5
9mm at $3.83 per 50
.308 at UNDER $21 per battlepack.
Etc.
(Did I mention I'm under 30? So it's not like it was 1970's prices)
Now, Buying at the peak (Or even NEAR it) in ANYTHING is illogical IMHO.
As to $50K shotguns.... Moronic. Yes, there will ALWAYS be some 'old money'
but you haveto count on them not having ALREADY bought that COLLECTION of $50K shotguns (IF they even want that!) that the former internet billionare had to sell off.
too small a market.
But if for instance you had $5K in $10 Glock mags...
As to what to put our money into now... I don't know.
That's why I ended up reading this whole thing.
As to the OP:
Consider several things (Which most have already mentioned)
Things which are likely to be banned (Para FAL, AK, AR etc)
Things which are useful (Pistols)
Classics (Walther PP etc)
Combinations (Hi Powers are useful, classical, High cap etc)
As well as 'nice guns' like the CZ 452
And hunting guns like one of my WInchester Model 12's which fits many rolls.
Hope that helps.
If you find a steal on a Colt SAA or something... sure, but why not several less collectable (But more useful, and not having appriciated so much) S&W revolvers insted?
Hope this helps.
Nice Shopping !!
I hope that you are still holding the metals, except for a few incursions. I'm holding now, investing in nowhere -- but a couple of gold mines in the Yukon look promising. They're at a low, with some Chinese exploration. The weapons I bought are all reinvested in metals now, except for a few dozen Glock-21 hi-cap magazines. Bought at $10, sold most at $25, just holding on to a few. You sure have good taste and timing. Good luck. (I'm book-marking your page)
I hope that you are still holding the metals, except for a few incursions. I'm holding now, investing in nowhere -- but a couple of gold mines in the Yukon look promising. They're at a low, with some Chinese exploration. The weapons I bought are all reinvested in metals now, except for a few dozen Glock-21 hi-cap magazines. Bought at $10, sold most at $25, just holding on to a few. You sure have good taste and timing. Good luck. (I'm book-marking your page)
GunsAmerica Fan
Member
This issue is storage Nomad. And again, your opinion is based on inexperience with high grade guns. All of the things you list would require a large temperature controlled storage space to vest hundreds of thousands in personal wealth in.
And btw, I bought all of the things on your list at those prices as well. If you bought your mother a gold necklace in the late 90s you bought gold at $300 an ounce. If you bought your daughter earings you got silver at six bucks. And all the gun stuff everyone bought back then who was an avid shooter and gun nut. I'm waiting for my 30 (yes countem 30) M44 nagants to spike lol.
And btw, I bought all of the things on your list at those prices as well. If you bought your mother a gold necklace in the late 90s you bought gold at $300 an ounce. If you bought your daughter earings you got silver at six bucks. And all the gun stuff everyone bought back then who was an avid shooter and gun nut. I'm waiting for my 30 (yes countem 30) M44 nagants to spike lol.
Erik M
Member
I bought my Smiths and Rugers to become hierloom weapons either for my child or my brothers children. I don't see them losing value any time soon. More of a hedge for me, I see them as easy money if I get into a tight squeeze. I would invest in commodities instead of buying a heap load of guns.
BADUNAME13
Member
Oh, I understand the Storage issue. My Lazyboy is sitting next to a Couch made out of 20,000 rounds of South African .308, with AK ammo armrests.
I bought a pallet of 5.45x39 when it was cheap.
900 AK 47 mags, 700 HK91 mags etc.
As to my 'inexperence with high grade guns'.... If we're talking (As you were) 5 figures, I admit it.
High 4 figures however... I have. (Personally) And I've observed the 5's.
You see, in between being Medically retired from the Corps, and going back to school, I worked in a class 3/7 shop. (Red Jacket Firearms)
SO I DO have some knowledge about 'small markets' as I speculate, Class 3 items (SBR, SBS, Suppressors, FA etc) have atleast SOME relation.
(IF you would care to look down off of your high horse and not speculate on what YOU do not know.)
For instance, I have a Red Jacket, Yugo Krink, MINT, Matching, WITH a matching serial numbered NDS reciever....
Been half assed trying to sell it for months.
It hasn't moved. (I'm in no rush)
while $400 AK's... Those move easy.
And no, I bought a couple maple leaves in 2004 at $330 an oz, not overpriced baubles. (Bought up to $510 after that, just like I bought silver up to $12.88)
(My M44's HAVE spiked. I bought $37.50 (After shipping) "Cracked stock specials" from Century, they were arsonal repaired, not cracked.)
BADUNAME13
Member
daorhgih:
I don't follow you with what your trying to say, I'm just a dumb Marine who just got back from the VFW 'hoisting' a few to our 235 Birthday.
Whatcha mean?
I don't follow you with what your trying to say, I'm just a dumb Marine who just got back from the VFW 'hoisting' a few to our 235 Birthday.
Whatcha mean?
GunsAmerica Fan
Member
Yea, it's safe to say that everyone here is grateful to the US Marines and everyone who has protected this fat lavish American lifestyle that the majority of people not on this board take for granted. Here we take nothing for granted and we know that our men and women in uniform are the only thing between us with our supermarkets full of food and Mogadishu. So indeed happy bday.
I don't know why you would think I'm on a high horse. Because I have some experience with high grade guns? I started GunsAmerica in 1997 by flying out to the Wannemacher gun show (that is this week and yes we have a booth there) and handing out fliers to the sellers, then taking whatever hand printed list they would give me and took them home and entered them on GA on pure faith that the internet would sell them faster than the Gun List. I learned about high grade guns not from owning them (my dad does have a Bertuzzi though but it is a lifetime dream purchase), it is from watching them come and go over the years. You can always sell a high grade gun on GA in a day, and the appreciation in them has been fairly consistent, so that even if you firesale a gun you will be getting your money back out, with a return even sometimes. I've seen guns sell in ten minutes on GA that were underpriced all of 10% or so.
The same pretty much goes for machineguns as you noted, but the chance of having them legislated out is substantially more than any other gun in the US. I think they are a risky long term investment.
I didn't buy my M44s as investments and they have gone up some. I paid I think $79 for mine, from Century as well lol. I bought them as "come the day" guns after 911 to arm my neighbors in the case of civil unrest. It is time for them to go though lol. I let go of the chem suits and gas masks and radiation meters long ago.
I don't know why you would think I'm on a high horse. Because I have some experience with high grade guns? I started GunsAmerica in 1997 by flying out to the Wannemacher gun show (that is this week and yes we have a booth there) and handing out fliers to the sellers, then taking whatever hand printed list they would give me and took them home and entered them on GA on pure faith that the internet would sell them faster than the Gun List. I learned about high grade guns not from owning them (my dad does have a Bertuzzi though but it is a lifetime dream purchase), it is from watching them come and go over the years. You can always sell a high grade gun on GA in a day, and the appreciation in them has been fairly consistent, so that even if you firesale a gun you will be getting your money back out, with a return even sometimes. I've seen guns sell in ten minutes on GA that were underpriced all of 10% or so.
The same pretty much goes for machineguns as you noted, but the chance of having them legislated out is substantially more than any other gun in the US. I think they are a risky long term investment.
I didn't buy my M44s as investments and they have gone up some. I paid I think $79 for mine, from Century as well lol. I bought them as "come the day" guns after 911 to arm my neighbors in the case of civil unrest. It is time for them to go though lol. I let go of the chem suits and gas masks and radiation meters long ago.
BADUNAME13
Member
Thanks guys, it's not been all at once.
I bought some stuff... thought it was alot.
Realised it wasn't/wish I had bought more a few times....
Kept it up, made it a practice of buying MORE than I could afford.
Helps that I'm single and have never done debt.
MUCH better weapon, and if someone's watching my @$$....
I bought some stuff... thought it was alot.
Realised it wasn't/wish I had bought more a few times....
Kept it up, made it a practice of buying MORE than I could afford.
Helps that I'm single and have never done debt.
I picked up SKS's insted... Not sure how many, lost count after 14
MUCH better weapon, and if someone's watching my @$$....
Thanks everyone.
You have been enormously helpful. You all have given me a lot of sound advice here which I will carefully consider as I under take the quest of finding a good fire arm for each of them that will hopefully increase in value long after I am gone and will be a treasure both of some value to them in their latter years and even greater value in treasured memories when their affectionate grandfather taught them to shoot as well as disassemble, clean and reassemble their gun...a loving gift from me.
Much appreciated...
Rayford
You have been enormously helpful. You all have given me a lot of sound advice here which I will carefully consider as I under take the quest of finding a good fire arm for each of them that will hopefully increase in value long after I am gone and will be a treasure both of some value to them in their latter years and even greater value in treasured memories when their affectionate grandfather taught them to shoot as well as disassemble, clean and reassemble their gun...a loving gift from me.
Much appreciated...
Rayford
22-rimfire
Member
There is some money to be made in firearms and firearm accessories. No question as far as I'm concerned. There are three basic approaches...
(1) You buy the firearms you like and hope they eventually appreciate in value for later sale. The key here is you like the firearms for themselves and don't view them stictly as an investment. I do this. If they increase significantly in value, I feel good and if they just move with inflation or a bit less, at least I did not loose any money and I may well have spent the money on something that looses value like most cars.
(2) You buy the less expensive guns based on the reasoning that more people can afford a less expensive gun versus a higher end collectable. Your gambling on essentially volume sales to make you money. For me, I don't want to be in the ebay or gun business, so this is not a great choice plus you need to store all this stuff for years potentially in the mean time.
(3) You buy the most expensive guns you can afford under the assumption (like real estate) that it will go up in value at least at some predictable common percentage basis. So the higher the price, the more money the investment acures over time. This was a common approach when buying a house where you buy as much house as you can afford as the price just kept going up and the increase generally outpaced inflation. This assumes there is always a buyer. We know what has happened to real estate in the last couple of years. Many of these houses were repo'd by the banks because the buyer could just barely afford the purchase in the first place and a bump in the road happened. But guns have not followed in kind (yet).
I think it is good to have a diversified group of investments and assets which include stocks, bonds, precious metals, firearms and other collectables. Collectables are always high risk investments.
It is very easy to look back if you are old enough to $300 or $500 gold or $5 silver and look at the current market and see the current selling price in US dollars. By the same token, you can do the same thing with firearms. So, if you are interested in collecting firearms for profit, I would buy smart and wade into the foray.
(1) You buy the firearms you like and hope they eventually appreciate in value for later sale. The key here is you like the firearms for themselves and don't view them stictly as an investment. I do this. If they increase significantly in value, I feel good and if they just move with inflation or a bit less, at least I did not loose any money and I may well have spent the money on something that looses value like most cars.
(2) You buy the less expensive guns based on the reasoning that more people can afford a less expensive gun versus a higher end collectable. Your gambling on essentially volume sales to make you money. For me, I don't want to be in the ebay or gun business, so this is not a great choice plus you need to store all this stuff for years potentially in the mean time.
(3) You buy the most expensive guns you can afford under the assumption (like real estate) that it will go up in value at least at some predictable common percentage basis. So the higher the price, the more money the investment acures over time. This was a common approach when buying a house where you buy as much house as you can afford as the price just kept going up and the increase generally outpaced inflation. This assumes there is always a buyer. We know what has happened to real estate in the last couple of years. Many of these houses were repo'd by the banks because the buyer could just barely afford the purchase in the first place and a bump in the road happened. But guns have not followed in kind (yet).
I think it is good to have a diversified group of investments and assets which include stocks, bonds, precious metals, firearms and other collectables. Collectables are always high risk investments.
It is very easy to look back if you are old enough to $300 or $500 gold or $5 silver and look at the current market and see the current selling price in US dollars. By the same token, you can do the same thing with firearms. So, if you are interested in collecting firearms for profit, I would buy smart and wade into the foray.
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