Guns in Space; Not Such a Good Idea

[Cesiumsponge]

It would be interesting to see what velocities could be reached.

Likely nothing too fancy if you're shooting just a regular firearm in space using the same propellant. If you look into the hydrogen and helium type light gas guns we use for R&D, you can get velocities of 4-5 miles/second typical. I don't believe you can get much higher than that using hydrogen gas as a propellant, which is already as light a propellant as you can get.

The evacuation of air helps quite a bit I would think otherwise they would not do this in the lab. As an dynamic model, the bullet is travelling down the barrel and pushing air out of the barrel at a rate faster than the air can move, which would be the speed of sound at STP, as the propellant gases have a much higher speed of sound due to the intense heat energy (and possibly lighter molecular gas? I have no idea what the gaseous molecules are in a blackpowder rxn)

Its going to be signifigantly more than 14.7psi as the bullet travels down the barrel continually compressing the plug of air in front of it, so it wouldn't be a static 1atm force acting against the front bullet. Correct me if I am wrong on that though.

I still think an issue is metal brittleness at extremely low temperatures. As mentioned, it would fluxuate and heat up extremely fast with any radiation source, and without an atmosphere to vent heat via convection, you'd have to depend on the firearm as a blackbody radiator to dissipate heat.

 

[LDL707]

Is it just me, or does anyone else see a "What guns for aliens?" discussion on the horizon?

Illudium PU-36 Explosive Space Modulator.

 

[Alan Fud]

The only way to get ride of waste heat in space is by radiation; there's no air to cool the barrel/action.

Can you explain the part about radiation? Thanks.

 

[hso]

Everyone seems to be forgetting the last of the rules -Know where your bullet will go. Shooting at your loony crewmate inside the little box of air while the whole mess floats in vacuum seems like the ultimate bad idea.

 

[Cesiumsponge]

You can only dissipate heat through electromagnetic radiation in space, which doesn't require a medium such as gas, liquid, or solid to transmit as it is photonic in nature. Heat is radiation in the infrared spectrum.

Radiation is often associated with alpha, beta, and gamma decay, but electromagnetic radiation has nothing to do with that. Infrared, UV, visible light, microwave, radio, x-ray, etc...all are different wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation.

 

[Alan Fud]

I thought gamma decay releases a gamma particle which is basicly an energized photon -- the same as Infrared, UV, visible light, microwave, radio, x-ray, etc.; but energized to a different level. How would that work with heat? Would the photon carry the heat? This is getting confusing.

 

[Cesiumsponge]

Sorry, you're correct, I typed in haste. Alpha and beta are particle decays and gamma is EM radiation, right above X-ray in terms of energy.

Infrared radiation is commonly felt as heat, but its invisible since it's below our visual capability. A lot of the invisible heaters you see use infrared heat and some sort of parabolic reflector. You can heat something up with pretty much any type of radiation given enough energy though.

 

[Jim K]

In a broad sense, NASA already has put a gun into space, several very large guns, in fact.

When a gun fires, mass times velocity of the bullet going in one direction equals the mass times velocity of the gun/shooter going the other. One is light and moves fast, the other is heavy and moves slowly. The latter movement is what we call recoil.

In NASA's big gun, AKA a rocket, the gas from burning fuel is light (low mass) but moving very fast; the rocket is the large (high mass) object moving slowly.

Put another way, man went to the moon on recoil.

Jim

 

[KenRocks]

No one has really mentioned this yet, but along the same lines as the slug-piercing-something-important argument, what about the voiding of a human body's worth of blood into microgravity?

Tasers seem like a good idea, IMO.

 

[Diamondback6]

And I'd say your classic sap or blackjack should always have a place in the defense-minded and fashionably-accessorized astronaut's equipment bag...

Someone does something unbelievably stupid, give him a "cosh & carry" out to the capsule back to Earth.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Yeah the Russians had a 3 barreled survival gun and once mounted a cannon on a Soyuz. Of course the Russians also had a smoking module on Mir and fur suits in case the heater went out and the whole thing ran on a computer about as complex as a Commodore 64.

Ground control Balkinor to Mir, are you receiving us?

Affirmative ground control. When are you sending up the supply rocket?

We will launch thursday as planned. Why?

We need cigarettes and vodka.

While we continue to build the ISS, it still rather bugs me that Russia was bullied into letting Mir, a GIANT space station, and possible 'lifeboat' in orbit, fall out of the sky. Starbucks could have bought it for a song, made it a hotel, something. There was NO good reason to let its orbit decay, other than "well why build an ISS if Mir is up and working?"

 

[Professor K]

Yeah, I agree with you on Mir.

What, is there not enough room in space?

 

[lathedog]

Aliens among us

I'm pretty sure they carried 2 each M9 on the early shuttle missions. Don't have any idea if they still do. They might have gone PC and replaced the weapons locker with a tofu dispenser.

The Apollo missions caried 1911A1's. Supposedly. I've read it in technical sources but that doesn't mean it's true. It just means they had no interest in falsification with intent to create controversy.

The previous weapons loadout was in case you landed somewhere unfriendly. Like East St Louis.

This thing with the nutty astronaut should be viewed as a symptom that something broke at NASA a long time ago and deep within. Putting a taser on board the shuttle is not a root cause solution. Maybe put valium or prozac in the astronaut ice cream.

 

[Davo]

I agree that guns are not desirable in a space craft, even an international one. Guns aren't the answer to everything guys...even if we REALLY like them! Physical and chemical restraints will be fine.
There is good reason why there arent guns on the floor in prisons and jails.

 

[Titan6]

Even I have to admit that guns in space is kind of a bad crazy idea. They would cause a lot more problems than they would solve. I am kind of surprised that NASA would consider it also. Makes one wonder about why they would be needed, and who they would be used against.

On the physics the mass of the bullet being propelled would cause only a minimum amount of orbit change to a larger object in orbit both from the shooter and to the target.. (remember astronauts are in orbit inside of the space ship that is in orbit). Had to ask a physicist to get that answer.

 

[PILMAN]

I agree I don't think guns in space would be a good idea at all though it would be interesting how they would work. Looks like one of the major issues would be lubricant, I wonder how a dry lube like Eezox would work in space? It'd be sweet to see if my USP really works in hostile environments like H&K says but one can only dream