Cosmoline
Member
Bogus theory, bogus test, bogus results. And wasn't there a thread on this months ago?
Guns Raise Male Testosterone Levels, Aggression
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sacp81170a
Member
There, fixed it for ya.
Zen21Tao
Member
This is just another case of taking a correlational study and trying to say that it demonstates causality. Real scientists are quick to point out that correlation doesn't equal causation.
There may be a correlation between rises in Testosterone and rises in aggressive acts but there are also correlations between increases in Testosterone w/increases in Seretonin and increases in aggerssion w/increases in Seretonin. Thinking increases Seretonin levels so are we to conclude that thinking causes violence?
There may be a correlation between rises in Testosterone and rises in aggressive acts but there are also correlations between increases in Testosterone w/increases in Seretonin and increases in aggerssion w/increases in Seretonin. Thinking increases Seretonin levels so are we to conclude that thinking causes violence?
Sylvan-Forge
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It appears member - Abortion Doctor - has been nuked from high orbit.
50caliber123
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What about estrogen levels in women? To be fair, we need to look at both the hormones of both sexes. High estrogen levels in women cause agression.
Why is it that CCW holders on average are less likely to have any bad brushes with the law than the average Joe on the street?
I love my guns, about as much as one can love an inantimate object, but they never make me do anything. They never say "Load Me! Aim Me! Fire Me!" I hate these left wing study's but what do you expect? It was done in a University in Illinois. I sense bias. I've never seen a link between testosterone and actual violence proven to be scientific fact.
Why is it that CCW holders on average are less likely to have any bad brushes with the law than the average Joe on the street?
I love my guns, about as much as one can love an inantimate object, but they never make me do anything. They never say "Load Me! Aim Me! Fire Me!" I hate these left wing study's but what do you expect? It was done in a University in Illinois. I sense bias. I've never seen a link between testosterone and actual violence proven to be scientific fact.
PATH
Member
Bad science. The validity and reliability as well as the controls for this test are quite suspect. More inane crap masquerading as serious scientific research! Sigh!
sacp81170a
Member
Taking the part of Devil's Advocate here, clearly what is called for is not a ban on guns, fast cars, motorcycles, comptetitive sports and action movies.
Clearly, in order to get to the root of the problem, we must ban testicles.
(Ducking and running for cover.)
myrmindon
Member
"The man had to take apart the object and put it back together according to instructions."
Could it be that the Aggression came from the fact that the men sitting in front of the Desert Eagel look-a-like pellet gun had to disassemble an object far more complecated then a childs game. or possibly the fact that they could have been nervous with the fact that they were sitting in front of an object that they fear??? then told to handle the pellet gun?
Just my thoughts...
Myrmindon
Could it be that the Aggression came from the fact that the men sitting in front of the Desert Eagel look-a-like pellet gun had to disassemble an object far more complecated then a childs game. or possibly the fact that they could have been nervous with the fact that they were sitting in front of an object that they fear??? then told to handle the pellet gun?
Just my thoughts...
Myrmindon
grislyatoms
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sacp:
Thanks for the Pepsi up my nose.
Thanks for the Pepsi up my nose.
sacp81170a
Member
I have to go test fire a Kel-Tec .380 a little later today. I assume my testosterone levels will not jump as high as if I were test firing Preacherman's elephant gun, Fluffykins.
sacp81170a
Member
Grisly:
Thanks, I was expecting someone to say, "You first."
One of the few things I learned in graduate school was that research and studies can be doctored to show any desired conclusion. The methodology on this study strikes as questionable at best and I will bet a dollar to a doughnut that the researchers are devoted anti-gun types who wanted exactly this conclusion.
How were the subjects selected? Handling a gun doesn't do anything to my testosterone level or cause any increased aggression. I handle guns every damn day of my life. Was this test done in a big city with liberal men who rarely or never handle firearms? I could see a man who never touches a gun in his life getting pumped up a bit when handed one for the first time. Especially an aggressive looking gun like the one in the test (see how they can manipulate the results?). Why not a plain-Jane revolver? And this bit with using hot sauce to gauge aggression? Give me a break! People will have varying degrees of tolerance to spicey food that has nothing to do with testosterone or aggression. Any Mexican guy will pour hot sauce on his tongue like it's going out of style while most Gringos will choke on few drops. Does that make Hispanics more aggressive? I wonder how the researches would like being called racist with their test?
I call for a peer review of their methods and demand some accountability from the researchers on their desired outcomes.
How were the subjects selected? Handling a gun doesn't do anything to my testosterone level or cause any increased aggression. I handle guns every damn day of my life. Was this test done in a big city with liberal men who rarely or never handle firearms? I could see a man who never touches a gun in his life getting pumped up a bit when handed one for the first time. Especially an aggressive looking gun like the one in the test (see how they can manipulate the results?). Why not a plain-Jane revolver? And this bit with using hot sauce to gauge aggression? Give me a break! People will have varying degrees of tolerance to spicey food that has nothing to do with testosterone or aggression. Any Mexican guy will pour hot sauce on his tongue like it's going out of style while most Gringos will choke on few drops. Does that make Hispanics more aggressive? I wonder how the researches would like being called racist with their test?
I call for a peer review of their methods and demand some accountability from the researchers on their desired outcomes.
Hot Sauce and Ramen
Dunno about you all, but I have an oddball anecdote to post. I'm a fan of microwave Ramen.
Six drops of "LOUISIANA the perfect hot sauce" will warm a bowl of ramen noticably. Eight will about cover the 'oriental' flavoring with a vaguely peppery taste. Seven drops exactly will demonstrate why I refer to it as "Louisiana Hellfire"
Overdoing the hot sauce can cover the taste, sometimes. Do they correct for people's tastes in spicy foods?
How do they have their Chinese curry made?
Mexican topped with with a dollap of PureCap liquid capsaicin?
Lame.
Also - anyone ever disassemble an airsoft gun? They are a stone b**** to put back together. Taking apart a kel-tec 380 is just stupid simple - I love them from an engineering standpoint; the epitome of elegant design.
Failure makes me irritated and agressive, did these guys even get the airsofts back together?
Dunno about you all, but I have an oddball anecdote to post. I'm a fan of microwave Ramen.
Six drops of "LOUISIANA the perfect hot sauce" will warm a bowl of ramen noticably. Eight will about cover the 'oriental' flavoring with a vaguely peppery taste. Seven drops exactly will demonstrate why I refer to it as "Louisiana Hellfire"
Overdoing the hot sauce can cover the taste, sometimes. Do they correct for people's tastes in spicy foods?
How do they have their Chinese curry made?
Mexican topped with with a dollap of PureCap liquid capsaicin?
Lame.
Also - anyone ever disassemble an airsoft gun? They are a stone b**** to put back together. Taking apart a kel-tec 380 is just stupid simple - I love them from an engineering standpoint; the epitome of elegant design.
Failure makes me irritated and agressive, did these guys even get the airsofts back together?
Where's the corollary study?
What about women's progesterone and estrogen levels when gucci shoes and purses are in the room versus cheap payless shoe source patent leather?
Or better yet, half of them get to fondle a 3 carat diamond wedding ring and are told it's really a diamond while the other half see the same ring and are told it's a cheapie cubic zirconia? Think there would be differences....hmmm, I think so.
Better yet, bon bons Peggy Bundy would do anyone for a tub of those as we all know.
jeepmor
What about women's progesterone and estrogen levels when gucci shoes and purses are in the room versus cheap payless shoe source patent leather?
Or better yet, half of them get to fondle a 3 carat diamond wedding ring and are told it's really a diamond while the other half see the same ring and are told it's a cheapie cubic zirconia? Think there would be differences....hmmm, I think so.
Better yet, bon bons
Peggy Bundy would do anyone for a tub of those as we all know. jeepmor
Justin, you beat me to the Landis punch.
But, isn't the Hot Sauce Trick more mischievious rather than violent? (I happen to love the stuff).
In anycase, if the Hot Sauce truly was an indicator of aggression/violence, may I suggest they got mad when they thought they were going to handle a sweet, honest to goodness Desert Eagle and ended up with a cheap plastic toy.
have a great day,
cavman
But, isn't the Hot Sauce Trick more mischievious rather than violent? (I happen to love the stuff).
In anycase, if the Hot Sauce truly was an indicator of aggression/violence, may I suggest they got mad when they thought they were going to handle a sweet, honest to goodness Desert Eagle and ended up with a cheap plastic toy.
have a great day,
cavman
geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
Junk science.
We fisked this study to death about 2 months ago.
We fisked this study to death about 2 months ago.
hey, wait a second!
BOTH GROUPS WERE PLAYING WITH TOYS!
Toy A caused more X than Toy B.
I'd like to see this test expanded.
Item A, real gun, informing men it is REAL. Demonstration shot to show it is real at a range, return to range classroom, remove ammo, let them handle it.
Item B, realistic toy gun
Item C, porno mags
Item D, mousetrap game, have them assemble it.
Item E, monoploy, have them play
Item F, poker, have them play
BOTH GROUPS WERE PLAYING WITH TOYS!
Toy A caused more X than Toy B.
I'd like to see this test expanded.
Item A, real gun, informing men it is REAL. Demonstration shot to show it is real at a range, return to range classroom, remove ammo, let them handle it.
Item B, realistic toy gun
Item C, porno mags
Item D, mousetrap game, have them assemble it.
Item E, monoploy, have them play
Item F, poker, have them play
Er... He was detected with a level of testosterone that was medically/scientifically impossible to achieve without artificial means. It was more than 400% above the normal/average ratio.
Landis' lawyer already admitted that the B sample will most likely be positive too.
He really must have done a lot of willing...
sacp81170a
Member
Hadn't heard that. If it's true then I'll be real disappointed.
Zach S
Member
That explains a lot...
I always ate a lot of spicy foods. Not too many can bring tears to my eyes, although it has been known to happen. That explains why I always had a general interest in firearms and later started collecting.
Someone gave me a habanero one morning at work. Due to my stupidity, I ate it whole. That was right around my 21s birthday, and I've been buying guns since.
I think they're onto something...
I always ate a lot of spicy foods. Not too many can bring tears to my eyes, although it has been known to happen. That explains why I always had a general interest in firearms and later started collecting.
Someone gave me a habanero one morning at work. Due to my stupidity, I ate it whole. That was right around my 21s birthday, and I've been buying guns since.
I think they're onto something...
Yooper
Member
The only conclusion I can reach from this information is that in a single, isolated test on 18-22 year-old college students, aggression increases with gun handling. This becomes valid when it can be replicated time and time again. If we want to be able to use the blanket implication of "all men", then a more random sampling is required, not just 18-22 year-olds. The simple fact that they are trying to implicate "all men" from a highly selective sampling detracts from the validity of the test. The conclusion is illogical, so the experiment becomes questionable.
Erebus
Member
The hot sauce thing is total BS. I would dump the whole bottle in the cup purely for the entertainment value knowing that they are gonna make the next guy drink it. It's not aggressive, it's funny.
If guns are bad and dangerous because they make men's testosterone levels rise then Jenna Jameson is the most dangerous thing on the planet.
If guns are bad and dangerous because they make men's testosterone levels rise then Jenna Jameson is the most dangerous thing on the planet.
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