Guns sold on the internet

[Mike Sr.]

During the last month I have bought two S&W 3" 65's from FFL's with integrity over the net.

1) In an auction, picture of one side only. I purchased the 65. First thing I do when I got an older S&W I take it appart and check the insides for alteration. If altered I restore to original factory spec's. Well, I took this 65 apart and WOW was it rusty inside. I took pictures sent them to seller and he offered a full refund.

BUT THE WIZARD I AM WITH STAINLESS....I wanted to discuss an alternative. We both agreed. He sent me some money back. I worked on the 65, it's still a tiny bit ruff but the internals are impeccable.

Plus I have handled Smiths for more than 35+yrs this 65 had the best lock up when cocked to fire: ABSOLUTELY NO CYLINDER END SHAKE OR MOVEMENT AND ALIGNMENT WAS DEAD ON.
OWNER MUST'A BEEN a dick-head who fired a bunch of lead wadcutters then put this 65 away and forgot about it...this 65 is a keeper. It's not a $550+ Smith but you'd have to show me more than 4-C notes for me to even consider selling this 65!!!!
---
2)
Just yesterday I picked up a Ladysmith 3" 65 with a funny looking sideplated scope mount, which used existing factory holes to mount the scope mount and a Laseraim Red dot which looks almost new.

I took off the side-plate scope mount. Then I drove by http://www.cylinder-slide.com/ , a few blocks from my Dealr's place of business and happened to catch Bill, coming back to the shop. I want to buy the missing side plate screws and Bill helped me personally! I'm not Bill's drinking buddy but I've conversated with him at gun shows for more than 30 and whenever I have seen him we've always had cordial conversations and he laff's at my crummy jokes!!!!

At one gun show in Fremont, Nebraska, Bill gave me one of his cards, he said "Here my's card Mike and there's a note on the back".
On the back he wrote "this card is worth $100 in gunsmithing work"...and back then I figured I'd nver be able to afford a custom gun; I saved the card, for sentimental reasons because of his random act of kindness.

We moved to a new home and somewhere I lost the card but I can tell you right were his table was at the g-show when he wrote that card. I still might find that card but I'll never use it... it'll be a keepsake from one of the premier G-smiths of our time...

Did not mean to digress: Bill said the screw holes were "messed' up and they required work. I left the 65 with him.

I called the FFL I bought it from, and the FFL seems willing to pay for the repairs, of course I will send receipts and I will provide him with Bill's phone number should the seller want to call and see if I'm BS'ing....Bill will set him straight.

Point is: seller is willing to pays for repairs to this 65.

This Seller's willingness must be recognized and applauded...

 

[mnrivrat]

There is something very workable between the 3 day return for any reason , and the "as is" sale.

That is selling as discribed and having return privilage if anything significant is not called. To be honest, even this draws problems. The subjective nature of looking at defects will always be a problem and I can see where sellers just don't want the hassle of guns returned for BS reasons. Read the terms of the aucton, ask your seller questions, request more pictures if it is appropriate to do so, and then decide to bid or not. Then live with it if it meets the terms within reason. In other words if the seller says it has some scattered dings, it has some scattered dings ! If you want a photo of the worst of them , and it is not provided, then requist it.

The time for good coorespondance is before you bid - returns are a waste of time and money for both parties. They should be avoided by proper communication.

 

[esq_stu]

I've had exactly 1 crummy internet deal in almost 14 years of buying/selling online.

Same here. After about 30 guns and one lemon, I am not ready to give it up. I've learned a lot and still feel confident. I am not afraid of as-is unless it's a make/model with a mediocre reputation to start with. I find most sellers are concerned about bad ratings.

I feel the same about selling - I won't sell a weapon I wouldn't buy (one that I know malfunctions) - I'll fix it first or leave it in the safe.

 

[Monkeybear]

If you intend to sell your guns as is... PUT AS IS IN PRINT. Who can agrue with that. The buyer can expect not to be able to return the product. When the terms not mentioned the seller may think he has an inspection ? You have to help people that are new to the community the best you can. Communication is the key. John

I can't think of a single place or person that will take a return on a firearm that has been fired. Most places I know won't take a return on an unfired one without a very, very good reason. Now I have not witnessed very many attempted returns of firearms at gunstores but if you try to make a return on a gun within the inspection period you better be able to tell the guy at the counter what was wrong with the gun you bought. That you "changed your mind" isn't gonna fly.

I don't sell "as is" by the way. "As Is" means no returns for any reason. I'll give you your money back but you had better have an excellent reason.

Inspection periods are fine and all when offered but there is no reason to expect them. If I don't offer an inspection period then you should not expect to get it.

 

[goon]

I can and have seen it from both sides.

When I sell or trade a gun online or in person, I am telling you the truth. If you live near me I'll meet you at the local range and you can fire a few rounds through it. After that, we to the dealer and money changes hands. You leave with the gun. If I never see you again, fine by me. The deal is over.
I can see why someone selling online would want to do the same thing.

On the other hand, this only works online if you have a sense of honor.
I have been screwed by someone on THR. He sold me a defective gun that I think he probably knew was defective with a money back guarantee. When I had problems he refused to honor those terms.
Either way, I'm a lot more hesitant of buying or trading online anymore.

Some people are just awful low.

 

[moooose102]

well, i only buy NEW guns, so unless they ship me the wrong gun, or it is damaged in some way, it probably wouldnt be a concern to me. but if i was buying a USED gun. i would definitly want a couple of days, to inspect, clean, and test fire that puppy. if the barrel was scrap, or the cylinder (revolver) didnt line up, or whatever, i wouldnt want to be stuck with a gun that is going to require hundreds of dollars in repairs. at least unless i knew that in the beginning. if it was not what the seller claimed it was. i would want my money back.

 

[John Fugate]

As a buyer would you rather have an inspection period or not ? That is the question I ask myself. I think a person should be 100% happy with their purchase or have the right to send it back.
John Fugate fugatefirearms.com

 

[Soybomb]

Ohhhh you sell guns, I see

 

[jaymac]

Auction Arms and Gun Broker are AUCTION sites. You pays your money and takes your chances. If you want to inspect, tear down, shoot, etc. Buy in person.

Most auctions are always "AS IS". I have purchased 20+ firearms over the internet from auction and individuals over the last 3 years and have not had a "bad" deal. One or two did not have quite the finish left I was expecting but I bought at auction for a good price.

 

[Monkeybear]

if i was buying a USED gun. i would definitly want a couple of days, to inspect, clean, and test fire that puppy

I have never heard of a shop offering an inspection period where you were allowed to fire the weapon. Even with an unfired gun within the "inspection period" it is my understanding that it will still take some convincing to get your money back from most places.

I think a person should be 100% happy with their purchase or have the right to send it back.

I agree that inspection periods are nice, especially on used guns. Gives you a chance to break it down, clean it and make sure its as good as you thought it was. As far as the 100% satisfaction guarantee........well I admire your commitment but I could not offer the same. Best I can offer when I sell a gun is that: To the best of my ability I have described the guns I am selling accurately and if I sell you a lemon by mistake I will try to help you out.

I work in a bookstore. People think that satisfaction guaranteed means that if they buy a new book, read 80% of it, bend the pages all the way back, crease the cover and spine and then decide that the book is "too long" for them they should get their money back. They are not 100% satisfied with their purchase. We tell them that we can not guarantee that they will like a book, just that the pages are all there and won't fall out of their own accord. No one ever understands this and we usually just give people back their money because its cheaper too do so then to pay me to argue with them for half an hour.

 

[PRM]

Internet sales

I've bought and sold a numbers of guns over the net. Ninety-Nine percent of the transactions have been above board. Mostly Second and Third Generation C&B Colts (NIB). Most of the sellers have been honest and I have had a couple offer my money back if I was not satisfied. The one transaction that went bad was a #2 S&W - antique, engraved, ivory grips, cherry case, ivory tipped ram-rod, and a box of original cartridges. The gun was advertised as being "mint" prior to the custom work being done on it and was "as new" in condition. When it came in I noticed the action was stiff, just wasn't right. I sent it to a specialist on vintage S&Ws and was told the sleeve that is threaded and is pressed into the cylinder was broke and binding. The seller refused to do anything about it and accused me of breaking it. Long story - it cost me an additional $500 to have it repaired. The original engraver who was also involved in the restoration told me the gun was broke when he did the initial engraving and that the owner (guy, who sold it to me) knew it was broke and said he wanted it for a show piece. I will probably get my money back out of it - and it will be as close to 100% (mechanically) as possible and accurately described when it is sold the next time. But, I had to eat the additional cost on the front end. I filed a complaint with the on-line site that the gun was bought through and was told they did not take sides in a transaction. The seller also terminated the listing as expired instead of sold and got out of paying their commission. Along with me, he essentially ripped off the listing site. They obviously do not care since the seller is still listing guns with them.


Internet Sales:

Most are legit - but you can get burned

On most guns it would cost you more to go to another state and pursue any legal recourse than you will gain.

On high dollar guns, use a third party. Have it sent to a reputable source to be checked out. Once you get the OK - then transfer funds. If the seller is not willing to do that, you got a red flag.

Sites like Gun Broker (one of the best)(not the site mentioned above) have a feedback system. Also, I have had vendors provide other avenues of feedback such as ebay (even though gun transactions are not allowed - gives you an idea of what type of person you are dealing with).

 

[John Fugate]

I understand you gentlemens points, you have valid reasons for not giving inspection periods. Its just something I do and it works for me but I am a high volume dealer. I can see where if you had just a few to sell you may choose a different method. Good luck to everyone, I feel there are alot of good people on this forum. Thank You for your input.

John Fugate fugatefirearms.com

 

[Flame Red]

When I sell guns on the Internet I usually check off 'As is' only because the cost of the FFL fees and shipping involved if someone wants to send it back.

If the potential buyer questions the 'as is', I tell them they can have a no fire inspection, but they will not be refunded the original shipping costs, They have to ship it back on their dime and I will withhold my FFL costs going both ways. That is a significant chunk of change. I have never had one come back.

 

[cortez kid]

You bet he sells guns, Soybomb. You can read all about him on the S&W board.
kid

 

[John Fugate]

If you want to read something look on Gunbroker under Fugatefirearms at the 1269 positive feedbacks that would give you a better understanding than some random gossip column.

 

[cortez kid]

I understand it's a "gossip column" for you now, but before you were booted out, it was a prime source of income. At this, I'll leave it alone. Good day sir.
kid

 

[Vaarok]

Ask before you buy if you're concerned, and if they don't answer to your satisfaction, don't bid. Auctions are meant to sell an item in the condition it's in, and it's up to the buyer to determine that condition. All the seller has to do is list it, I've even bought a couple "Old military gun, unknown cal, bore o.k." back in the early days of Gunbroker.

Caveat emptor, do your homework, and ask all questions before bidding.

Personally, with probably a hundred guns bought online, I've been dissatisfied with one, and it was because I misread the text accompanying the rifle.

 

[Griz44]

I do sell on the internet. I sell both new and used. New guns I cannot take back. They have to be sent to the factory for any needed repair. If someone decides they really don't want the gun, then they should sell it on their own, not expect a the dealer who sold in good faith to cover their lack of character. I will offer to buy the gun from them at wholesale prices, since that's what I usually pay for guns in the first place. A buyer that just wants to "try it out" needs to go to a gun range that rents guns and try them out until he finds what he likes and needs. Try any of the local gun retailers, Cabellas, Academy, etc..... Ever see the sign that says "NO RETURNS"? They are there, for the new and used guns they sell. If a buyer changes their mind after getting a gun home, don't blame the seller! I sell through auction sites, and do a lot of buying as well. Watch the feedback ratings very closely. Reputation is everything. I state "as is-no returns without good cause". I also state that if the gun has been mis-represented or is not functional as stated, I will take it back. I have never had a weapon returned for those reasons. I also take many detailed photos of each gun to have as evidence that a buyer has abused or damaged a gun, then tries to send it back claiming it was not as stated in the auction. Yes, they have tried that. I have had guns returned because the buyer could not pass the NICS on the receiving end of the deal as well. If a buyer cannot pass a NICS, why did he order the gun in the first place? Some think that they can buy on the internet and circumvent the law. Reputable dealers don't do that. In that case, I deduct shipping, handling fees from the receiving FFL, and re-stock fees, and send them the balance. Is that fair? The seller gets cheated more often than the buyer. 99% of sellers are good people. The bad sellers get weeded out really fast. I can't say that about buyers. Bad buyers seem to have no end.

 

[Orange_Magnum]

Guns of today suck. AS IS reflects the crap put out by the industry.

 

[John Fugate]

Kid,
I have a close friend who still gets all the bargains on there he has a good eye and a unlimited bankroll. He lives on there day and night. I have much more free time since I left the scene. About all I do anymore is fish and travel.
John