Gunsafe floor attachment methods?

[plnkr1234]

Hi Guys,

I've read posts in the past about bolting safes to the floor. I would like to bolt my safe down to my concrete basement floor with 3/8" x 2 1/4" Red Head concrete sleeved anchor bolts. I plan on drilling the 3/8" holes about 2 1/2" deep so if I move, I can hammer the bolts flush and fill the holes.

I've never drilled concrete before. Do I have to use a hammer drill? How big does it have to be? Also, are standard masonry bits ok? Lastly, any practical tips on how to drill the holes as I've never done this before? Will a smaller pilot hole first help?

Thanks in advance.

 

[a1abdj]

When I install gun safes on bare concrete I like to put something underneath the safe to keep it dry. Most often, it's 3/4" plywood cut 1/2 inch larger than the safe dimensions and centered underneath it.

You will need a hammer drill, but for that small of a hole, even a cheap one will do. I carry a 1/2" hammer drill just for installing gun safes, and it takes me about 30 seconds to drill a hole deep enough to hammer a sleve anchor into.

You don't need a pilot hole, but you want to make sure you hold the drill steady. You want the hole to be straight and true to get the best grip out of the anchor. If you're using plywood as a buffer, you'll want to drill through it first with a normal bit, then the concrete with a masonry bit.

I normally position the safe where I want it, and dril the holes from inside the safe. Put the nut on the anchor flush with the top (don't forget a washer), and hammer it down all the way. About 4 turns should snug it up, and you're set.

I would also consider using longer anchors.

 

[Psssniper]

hammer drills are just so much fun
I have a bosch and it goes thru concrete like buttah

 

[clt46910]

You will want a hammer drill, standard masonry bits will work, Check the instructions for the anchors you are using for the right sized bit. You may need to go a little deeper to hammer them back in, most people never think of that. I would say at least three inches to just be sure. No pilot hole, as said before just make sure they are straight.

With 3/8 bolts it should be either a 1/2 or 9/16 bit depending on type of anchor. Check instructions to make sure.

Do you know if you will be dealing with rebar?

 

[GunGoBoom]

Just use standard masonry bit. Then use those screws with the expanding sides to lock in.

 

[RavenVT100]

I used liquid nail, I guess I'm a little paranoid

(Edit: With real, actual bolts, obviously).

 

[a1abdj]

People "misunderestimate" the use of liquid nail.

I've been on jobs where they framed a drop safe into a wall using liquid nail to secure the framing to the safe. Removing that safe was one of the hardest things I've ever done. The liquid nail was holding up quite well to sledge hammer blows.

We finally gave up and cut the wall out around the safe with a saw.

 

[f4t9r]

If you are thinking about moving in the future , just use a hammer drill and bolts, installed just like most everyone suggested

 

[plnkr1234]

Thanks for the advice guys,

The basement is actually thinly carpeted so I plan on drilling and installing the bolts, then cutting slits in the carpet, and installing the safe over the carpet. I went to rent a hammer drill, and saw some cheap ones for sale for just a little more than the rental fee and figure I may as well buy one. I know it's not a good high quality drill, but should do ok for the few holes I may need to drill to mount the safe and any other limited tasks.

Thanks again guys.

 

[pete f]

do not forget to anchor the top somehow. to prevent tipping
i have seen a few where the ww hole bottom was ripped out when the top was crowbarred away from the wall.

 

[Beach]

do not forget to anchor the top somehow. to prevent tipping
i have seen a few where the ww hole bottom was ripped out when the top was crowbarred away from the wall.

Thats a good plan. Run a lag bolt into a stud near the top and center of the safe. That way they cant use the height of the safe as a lever against your floor bolts. I use a hammer and finishing nail to locate a stud. Should be 16" on center. I tend to keep alot of rolled coins in the safe as well. They are heavy, and extra cash. Kills two birds with one stone.

 

[ScottsGT]

To start with, you CANNOT use standard masonry drill bits in a hammer drill. The hammer drill requires a hardned bit. You will get about 1 hole out of a standard masonry bit in a hammer drill. Why do I know this? I use the grand daddy of them all all the time at work. Can you say HILTI! Now that's a mother of a hammer drill.
Just stay away from the bright and shiney chrome plated looking bits and you should be OK.
#2 If you are drilling into a concrete basement, make sure of the following:
A. Do NOT drill all the way thru the concrete. There are plastic moisture barriers in place between the ground and your concrete. You will wind up with a moisture problem in your house if you live in a damp area. It might not be severe, but in these days and times, an insurance company will drop you like a hot potato if you have a mold problem in your house.
B. A lot of basement slabs have some plumming running thru them. I was about to hard mount my 60 gallon upright aircompressor in my garage/basement when I realized that I had water pipes running right under the compressor location. I instead mounted it on rubber feet hoping to keep it from walking around while running. You never know how deep the contractors buried the plumming pipes before the slab was poured.

 

[Stainless Chili]

In a basement without a door leading to the yard, I'd think 5000 rounds of ammo should keep any safe from being moved.

Personally, with the leverage of a safe behind it, some good shoving and prying should yank those anchors right out.

3/4" stainless all-thread set six inches deep in epoxy might be a start.

Yea on the vapor barrier.

Congrats on the safe [new?]

I've set a few hundred Hilti 1/2" drop-in anchors. They take 3/8" all-thread or 3/8" bolts.

Often the concrete is not hard enough for the anchor, and shards apart when you torx the bolt.

That is part of the reason for placing them deeper.

Figure out how thich the slab is. 5"? Take your bit, and mark is at 4" with electrical tape. That is your guide on how deep to go.

Still, if there is no patio slider or door leading directly outside, the coins and the ammo will keep that safe safe.

 

[0007]

I would suggest getting enough 1" X 2" heavy channel/strut to put about three pieces evenly spaced under the safe. This is the stuff you buy at Home Depot to hang ac ducts and such from ceilingswith 1/2"threaded rod. It usually comes in 6-10" lengths that are 1X2 or 2X2 and has 3/4X1/2 inch holes spaced about one inch apart. Works perfect for setting safe on as it is heavily galvanized.

 

[ScottsGT]

In a basement without a door leading to the yard, I'd think 5000 rounds of ammo should keep any safe from being moved.

Still, if there is no patio slider or door leading directly outside, the coins and the ammo will keep that safe safe.

OK, now I understand. We're talking about ammo weight, not 5000 rounds of hot lead coming towards a would be thief! But that too sounds like a good idea

Check your phone book for a Hilti store in your area and let the sales rep know what you want to do. They have anchors that will not rock out with the safe attached to it. If there is no movement, you cannot rock anchors loose.
We use to hang 175lb projectors here at work using a Hilti anchor that was nothing more than a 3/16 shaft about 2" long with a slight bend in it. No epoxy, no expansion. Just wedged in place. I was shocked that 4 of those anchors held the projector for years with no slippage. We now use 12 lb projectors and my back appreciates it!

 

[Stainless Chili]

True.

If the safe will not rock, i.e., bolted thru the back as well, it should not budge.

NOT ACTUAL SIZE !!!

http://www.us.hilti.com/holus/modules/prcat/prca_navigation.jsp?OID=-12331

There are undoubtedly better ones for your application. This is the common type I've used.

 

[a1abdj]

There are potential consequences to bolting a gun safe down to where it will not budge:

Let's used two cars for example, since they are made of sheet metal similar to your safe.

Two cars T-Bone each other in an intersection. Car A, hits Car B at 30 mph, causing serious damage, and pushing Car B through the intersection and off the road way.

In the same situation, let's say Car A hits Car B, but instead of pushing it off the road, pushes Car B into the side of a tractor trailer.

In the second sitation, the damage will be much worse because Car B absorbed all of the impact instead of being able to slide, making the impact less intense.

Safes are the same way. Most gun safes are made out of 12 guage steel. If you have them secured so well that they won't budge, it makes it that much easier to run a sledge hammer through the side of it.

By keeping it bolted at the bottom, the floor of the safe will bow and flex with any impacts, making it slightly harder to penetrate the steel.

You want to bolt a gun safe well enough that it can't be tipped over, but not so well that it makes it weaker.

If your security concerns are such that you believe that you'll be attracting a theif willing to rip the safe up out of the floor, than you need to graduate out of gun safes and into a real safe.

 

[Silver Bullet]

When I install gun safes on bare concrete I like to put something underneath the safe to keep it dry. Most often, it's 3/4" plywood cut 1/2 inch larger than the safe dimensions and centered underneath it.

This doesn't cause an issue with making it easier for someone to get a crowbar underneath the safe ? If I had my druthers, I'd have a 1-inch deep trough that the safe would just barely sit inside.

 

[Kharn]

Redhead brand bolts are the best, from what I found while researching the same questions for my safe. Home Depot has'em, Lowe's or your local one should too, cost about $2 each.

One thing: There's no test fitting with these style bolts, once its in its not coming out, so measure the bolt and mark your drill appropriately.

Kharn

 

[Highland Ranger]

Hammer drill, carbide masonary bits, let the drill do the work.

 

[mountainclmbr]

I instaslled a safe on a raised floor. I put down 3 layers of 3/4 inch plywood and screwed them into floor joists. I screwed the safe into the plywood from the inside with screws that did not go through under the house. I screwed the top of the safe into wall studs with 6-inch screws from the inside. A chain saw would probably cut the safe out, but not without a lot of noise.

 

[plnkr1234]

Thanks Again Guys,

I ended up drilling the holes using a cheap hammer drill and a Bosch hammer drill bit. I also ended up using 3/8 in. x 3 3/4 in. Red Head wedge anchors. I tried the 2 1/4 but they were too short. Thanks for the advice a1abdj.

I did not bother bolting the top of the safe to a wall stud. The safe is in the corner of a closet, and the thief would have to cut the walls out to get in good position to lever the safe. Besides, the safe is just one layer amongst multiple layers of security.

One day, I will step up to a real safe. a1abdj, how does the Graffunder B rated gunsafe compare to the Amsec BF series. I know the Graffunder has a 1/2 in door and 1/4 in body with a concrete fire layer and a thin inner shell. From what I can tell the Amsec is similar with a 1/2 in door and fire layer, but I'm not sure of the body construction. I think the Amsec body is thinner since a comparable sized safe weighs much less than a similar sized Graffunder.

Also, what do you think of Zanotti safes. They're 3/16 door and 1/8 in body. Thicker than many other "safes", but the sectional feature must make the safe weaker.

Thanks Again and to everyone else who replied.

 

[a1abdj]

One day, I will step up to a real safe. a1abdj, how does the Graffunder B rated gunsafe compare to the Amsec BF series. I know the Graffunder has a 1/2 in door and 1/4 in body with a concrete fire layer and a thin inner shell. From what I can tell the Amsec is similar with a 1/2 in door and fire layer, but I'm not sure of the body construction. I think the Amsec body is thinner since a comparable sized safe weighs much less than a similar sized Graffunder.

Also, what do you think of Zanotti safes. They're 3/16 door and 1/8 in body. Thicker than many other "safes", but the sectional feature must make the safe weaker.

The AMSEC BF series is one of the best buys on the market today. The Graffunder you mentioned is a better safe, but also cost more. The AMSEC uses a 10 ga. outer shell with a 16 ga. inner shell, where as the Graffunder uses a full 1/4 plate (twice as thick as the AMSEC).

Zanotti makes an ok safe if your situation warrants having one. Many times when small doors or elevators are involved it's easier being able to disassemble the safe for moving. Zanotti is the only company that I know of marketing a modular gun safe, but is not the only company that makes modular safes. Even many modern day bank vaults are constructed out of modular components. This makes them lighter, stronger, and faster to set up on site. Modular safes are just as strong as one piece units in most cases.

 

[Hot brass]

I have to mount my gun safe to the floor as a friend just told me that his house was broken into and his gun safe was stolen. The guns were in the safe and the bg`s laid the 2500# safe over on a moving dolly and rolled the safe out of his home. He knows this because a chunk of wood was knocked out of the door jam where the tumbler hit.

I will bolt my safe to the floor hopefully soon. I feel naked, as my safe weighs 1100#`s empty. His weighed twice as much when empty..

 

[Kharn]

I have to mount my gun safe to the floor as a friend just told me that his house was broken into and his gun safe was stolen. The guns were in the safe and the bg`s laid the 2500# safe over on a moving dolly and rolled the safe out of his home. He knows this because a chunk of wood was knocked out of the door jam where the tumbler hit.

I will bolt my safe to the floor hopefully soon. I feel naked, as my safe weighs 1100#`s empty. His weighed twice as much when empty..

Definitely sounds like some pros got him. At that point, if they really want your guns, they'll just bring a plasma cutter or welding set. And one of those will open it like a hot knife through butter.

Kharn