Guy kills self at shooting range

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fastattack

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From:
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/11/25/news/state/04_20_4011_24_07.txt

RIVERSIDE -- A man died after he accidentally shot himself in the head at a firing range, police said.

The 24-year-old man loaded the handgun Friday and appeared to inadvertently fire a single shot to his head, according to surveillance video from the Riverside Magnum indoor public shooting range.

The video showed the man "kind of fumbling around" as if he were unfamiliar with the weapon, police Lt. Paul Villanueva said.

Range employees give customers basic instructions before they shoot, said manager Fred Buchholz, who added that this was the first such incident at the range.

Authorities are investigating the incident.
 
Suicide by rental gun is fairly common, unfortunately. I'd be willing to bet a few dollars that it wasn't an accident.
 
Conqueror, I would not say that suicide by rental gun is that common. I live in a mid-sized city and have heard of only one such incident here. If such a practice was widespread, then gun rentals might be prohibited or severely restricted by individual ranges. I am not aware of such policies, but stories such as this one make our discussions relevant.


Timthinker
 
I have known people stupid enough to look down the business end of a loaded gun, but I suspect suicide. The only good thing about having it NOT be a suicide is that the guy's widow/family will get collect his full life insurance payout.
 
Shooting range suicides, while infrequent, are common. I know of at least 3 here in my city over the past year or 2.

c2k
 
Let me rephrase Conqueror's statement for him, if he disagrees, he can say so:

"Of all cases of death by self-inflicted gunshot at a gun-renting range, which are very rare, the majority are suicide."
 
Sad Safety Reminder

Two possibilities:

1) Clueless new shooter who knows nothing of the four rules turns his stoopid dial to eleven and dies.

2) Man leaves insurance money to wife by having "accident" at the range.

Unfortunately, there will be a lot more to this story than has been published so far, and we don't have that information yet.

I will leave this thread open for the moment in the hope someone can obtain and post more actual facts.

Failing that, since the topic is not a candidate for "High Road Discussion Hall of Fame" I will close it.

If it becomes an indulgence in morbid "one time, at band camp" oneupmanship of gore and gloom, I'll close it.

So, anyone have more factual data for this?
 
Arfin, my apologies if I took something else than the high road. It is time for me to move to other topics.


Timthinker
 
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Just did a little research on this, because I've heard of it before. Here's the best piece of information I could find.

Gun range suicide hits Agoura again
By Stephanie Bertholdo [email protected]


Over the years, Robert Kramer, 57, periodically visited the Agoura Hills Target Range. Although Jim Davis, owner of the range, hadn't seen Kramer for several months, he had known him for more than 15 years and was always happy to see his old friend come in to shoot.
http://www.theacorn.com/news/2006/0831/Front_Page/004.html

Kramer visited the range at 5040 Cornell Road on the afternoon of Fri., Aug. 18. After chatting for about 15 minutes and going to his car to retrieve a mutual friend's phone number for Davis, Kramer returned to the indoor facility at about 3 p.m. He fired a few rounds at targets, then placed a 22caliber semiautomatic pistol in his mouth and shot himself. He died instantly.

Davis said that Kramer was with another man, who fled the scene when he saw what had happened. Range members are not allowed to rent a gun and shoot alone. Two or more people must be present at all times, Davis said.

Kramer, a former Calabasas and Westlake Village resident before he moved in with a woman in Sherman Oaks, reportedly is the seventh person to take his life at the gun range since the range opened in 1982. Six of the suicides have occurred since 1995.

"I know that he was depressed," said his girlfriend, who asked to remain anonymous. "He fired a few rounds, then turned the gun on himself."

She said Kramer had two sons, ages 15 and 18, who live with their mother.

The woman said Kramer had been a regular visitor to the Agoura Hills range, and although she didn't think he owned any weapons of his own, she said he was trained in firearm usage.

"It makes me very, very mad," Davis said of his friend's suicide. "Unless there was something like a fatal disease or something like that, there's no excuse for that. He was a perfectly healthy individual. I had no idea about what was wrong . . . no suspicions whatsoever."

When a person suffering from depression or other mood disorders decides to end his life, he might appear to family and friends to be more relaxed and happy than usual. The act of making the decision reduces the emotional burden, according to some psychologists.

"Usually, when they've made a decision they are in a good mood," Davis said. He said that Kramer showed no signs of being upset, sad or in distress.

Ranges common sites

Detective Sgt. Tim Youngern of the Lost Hills Sheriff's Station said gun range suicides are difficult to prevent.

"They have all the tools they need," Youngern said. "They aren't accidental shootings, they're deliberate acts."

Target ranges, in fact, are a common location for suicides and suicide attempts in California. In 2005, a man threatened to commit suicide at an indoor shooting range in Oceanside, and a 23year-old San Jose woman shot herself last month at an indoor Milpitas range. According to a Mercury News article about the event, the woman's death was "at least the third suicide in the past decade at the range."

An employee at Shooters Paradise in Oxnard, who requested anonymity, said on average there is one suicide at a shooting range every four to six years. The statistic, he said, was based on an insurance company study. Another employee said two people in 20 years had killed themselves at the Oxnard site.

Hotels, motels

Target ranges aren't the only places chosen by people to commit suicide using guns. Davis said hotel and motel rooms are often rented by those who want to take their own lives.

Kathleen Walk, general manager of the Hampton Inn and Suites in Agoura Hills, said that during her 19 years working in the hotel industry, she had only been employed at one site where a suicide took place, a Comfort Inn in Santa Clarita. There have not been any such deaths at the Agoura Hills inn, Walk said. "We're pretty fortunate."

Scrutiny is intense

The Agoura Hills gun range saw its first suicide in 1982, and since then a 40-year-old Woodland Hills woman and several others have used the facility to end their lives.

A 19-year-old man committed suicide at the range in 1998, and in the summer of 2000, the suicide of a Thousand Oaks man with a history of mental illness sparked a protest by family members who wanted Davis to conduct more thorough background checks on members.

Davis said he strictly follows all gun laws and tries to determine if a customer might be mentally unstable. Background checks on criminal behavior and mental illness are conducted on members, and he will not rent a gun to anyone who seems ill or appears to have used drugs or alcohol. Customer cards kept at the range and detail members' proficiency with firearms.

First time visitors to the range must fill out paperwork and wait seven days to shoot. For those who want to purchase firearmsthe scrutiny is even more intenseDue to previous suicides at the range, Davis and personnel at the Lost Hills Sheriff's Station tried to develop a profile of those who might make such an attempt. BuKramer didn't fit that profile. In 2005, Davis, an eighth-generation master gunsmith who also served in the military, took parin a gun safety program that provided more than 1,000 kits to shooters.The kits included a cable gun-lock system and a firearm safety brochure.

Regarding his friend's suicide"I had no idea about what was wrong," Davis said. "I had no suspicions whatsoever. I get very aggravated with people who don't know how much life is worth. We service a lot of fine people (here)," he said, "but we can't help it when (somebody) jumps the gun."

Davis said the range is used by the FBI, the Secret Service, U.SCustoms, SWAT (Special Weapons and Tactics) teams, and law enforcement officers from Los Angeles to Santa Barbara.

Specialists in the mental health field say one or more common clues usually warn that a person may attempt to take their own lifeAmong the signs to watch for are ideation (talking or writing about death); substance abuse; purposelessness; anxiety; feelings of being trapped; hopelessness; withdrawal; anger, recklessness and mood changes. For more information, call the Suicide Hotline at (800) 273-TALK (273-8255).
http://www.theacorn.com/news/2006/0831/Front_Page/004.html
 
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If he was fumbling with the pistol I would be hard pressed to believe that he intentionally shot himself. Either way, isn't this what RO's are for?

I personally have never heard of anyone shooting themselves at the range here in my city, let alone canada. Given how hard it is to actually aquire a firearm here you would think that suicide would be common at our ranges but it isn't.
 
At the range where I used to shoot in San Jose, California, they stopped renting to individuals a few years ago. If you wanted to rent a pistol and shoot, you had to bring a friend. The owner said it was because of the concern for suicide...I seem to remember that they had a suicide at the range that prompted the policy change, but it was a long time ago.

I think that they closed down a year or so afterwards. I wonder if a large chunk of their business was guys like me who would stop by on a free afternoon for some range practice, but didn't have their own handguns. I know I never bothered to shoot there again because it was just enough of an inconvenience to find somebody else to shoot with.

-J.
 
Uh, Not The Same Story

Post #14 is not the same story as post #1.

Looking for current facts on the current story.

Anyone?
 
If he was fumbling with the pistol I would be hard pressed to believe that he intentionally shot himself. Either way, isn't this what RO's are for?

Brentn, a range officer's primary function is to keep sufficient order on the range to reduce the odds of accidents. The RO has other functions too but none of them include preventing suicides. There's just no way to do it. Imagine what it would take you to recognize that someone on a range (or anywhere else) is going to kill himself, then imagine what you would have to do to intervene.

No one except Washington, DC's Mayor Adrian Fenty, its Attorney General Linda Singer, and the Violence Policy Center can prevent a determined suicide from killing himself with a gun directly. Even they can't stop a determined suicide from killing himself, of course: all they can do is limit the suicide's direct methods and send him off to end his life some other way, such as by getting a cop to do it, or by hanging, or by rejecting gun control, or through another indirect or direct method.
 
We had a suicide a few years ago at an indoor range in Bossier City. These things don't exactly come with warning labels taped to the foreheads of the customers. Guess we need to outlaw gun rentals along with bridges, tall buildings, freeway overpasses, over the counter sleep aids, alcohol, tobacco, razor blades, rope, automobiles, Democrats and lightening.
 
robert,

I meant that the RO's dutys are to keep the range safe and educate the customers on proper firearm use. The description of the incident said the following:
The 24-year-old man loaded the handgun Friday and appeared to inadvertently fire a single shot to his head

meaning that it was probably an accident, I mean its possible that they just gave him a loaded gun and told him to shoot. Alot of people have no idea what the 4 rules are, or why they are so important. Buddy, possibly, had a problem with his handgun and not realizing that the barrel was pointed at his face inadvertantly pulled the trigger.
If that was the case, I'd say that the RO was not doing his job.
Its almost impossible for an RO to prevent a suicide, that much I do agree with.
 
The 24-year-old man loaded the handgun Friday and appeared to inadvertently fire a single shot to his head,
:scrutiny:

Well now, there's a well thought out journalistic statement.

Just how damn many shots to the head does that reporter think could be managed before somebody decided to stop pulling the trigger - inadvertently or otherwise?

geez.....

:cool:
 
Let's just get this out of the way:

Poster 1: "What a horrible tragedy! Won't someone think of the family!"
Poster 2: "Cleanup in aisle 3."
Poster 1: "That's mean and insensitive."
Poster 3: "What a horrible person he must have been to do something so terribly selfish."
Poster 4: "Yeah, only a real jerk would commit suicide."
Mod: *Yawn* "Closed."
 
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