Guy On The Way To The Range Gets Carjacked. Six Guns + Ammo Gone.

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Npprdog got it.

Folks are missing my point. I never said he should have resisted the robbery by drawing on a guy who already has a weapon in his face. This arguement ignores my primary point that HE NEVER SHOULD HAVE STOPPED AT THE HOME DEPOT TO BEGIN WITH!!! You don't leave weapons in an unattended car period!
 
I agree the Home Depot trip should have been skipped, but...

That being said, can't count how many times we've driven to go camping, off roading, etc with guns and ammo in the trucks and have stopped for a bite to eat, gone to the store to buy supplies, ice, etc enroute.

How often do you go the range with friends and stop for a burger on the way home?
 
A Few Points:

1. Victim may not have had an opportunity to do squat, given the circumstances. Sometimes you're just scr__ed.

2. Yeah, I agree it might be best to drive straight to the range, & straight home, no stops allowed. In the service, any sensitive items would have had a guard at all times.
(Warning: But-Monkey Alert)
But, we ought to give the benefit of the doubt to the victim. He is not Pvt Snuffy in the 432nd Mess Kit Repair Battalion. He was not the one who broke the law, threatened another with death, and stole an auto & guns.

Not everybody wants or needs to make a ninja-roll when entering/leaving every room...not everybody is going to live life to its tactical fullest.

Question: If the victim had been CCW-ing, would he have been justified in shooting the criminals AFTER they were in his auto?
Scenario:
BGs get drop on GG
GG gives up keys
BGs get into auto
As BGs figure out how to get auto moving. GG draws CCW, walks up to driver-side window, and shoots BG in head

In Texas, on his own property, at night, there is no question: GG is justified in the law. The question is when it is NOT on his property, at night, and this occurs.
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to beat the victim up. I just think there's a good lesson to be learned. 'nuff said about that.

"Question: If the victim had been CCW-ing, would he have been justified in shooting the criminals AFTER they were in his auto?"

Probably not. The guns in vehicle may have justified it in some states. The key is to make it plausable that I was in immediate fear for my life. Need to think about this...
 
I have been wondering this also. If I had a gun pointed at me and was CCW'ing, I would be likely to get a chance to unholster and shoot when the BG is not looking or has even turned his back to me.

Would that be considered a "clean shoot" if he was walking away toward my car/truck and I shot him in the back or he made it into the car/truck before I got to him?

Nik
 
CCW on the way to and from the range is a smart thing........
Yep and while on the range...well concealed is concealed.

Now granted I was not there. I do believe one never knows the where or when of next encounter. [CRSam]

So I CCW , I quit going to public ranges, often go by myself to private property, gated and someone up the way knows my comings and goings. I have no stickers on my vehicle advertising guns. I don't advertise guns ,or that I am a shooter. I have been low profile too long. No logo'd gear, I use a backpack , generic baseball bat carrier, maybe a folding chair...well the drawstring cover for the chair anyway.

Nope - just some older returning student with his backpack, perhaps gonna do some batting practice to alieve some stress...

What guns?

IIRC we have situations were folks were robbed of guns and vehicles, used in crimes...

Guns, I don't know nothing about guns. I have even been invited to go out and learn to shoot..." we will even bring a gun for you" ... I dunno - ain't them there guns dangerous or something? ;)
 
My question is did the guy have his guns in his vehicle where they were visible? Could well be that the homeboys spotted them, and then ambushed the guy.
If I go to the range in my pickup, the guns are locked in the toolbox. If I go in the car, everything is in the trunk. No sense in asking for trouble.
 
It didn't become clear whether they were visible or not. It was a red SUV of some sort. It sounded like robbery was the initial intent and the car jacking was an impulse decision made by the BG at the time of the robbery.

Nik
 
I think that that needs to be brought up. Given the horrible possibility of my firearms being used to commit murder if they're stolen from me, I've taken actions to prevent that by obtaining a safe.

But this brings up a question. In general, property isn't worth shooting somebody over. But given the chance that my firearms could be used to commit murder and other crimes, can I up the amount of force I use to defend them? I know that a car could be used the same way, but I think that we will all admit that the car is more likely to end up in a chop shop or ditch somewhere.

Then the next step, if they're trying to steal my car, with the guns in the back, do I take the same steps? It sounds like a question for the DA.
 
Which Home Despot parking lot was it? Which range was he en route to? We were at BTI last Friday evening, but never heard anything about this--missed the evening news though...
 
FWIW, Home Depot parking lots are prime rip off locations.

I used to be a vendor servicing local Home Depots. Between the traffic in and out of the lots, the inviting truck beds full of great contruction tools, etc ripe for the picking, and every day store theft, I don't think a day passed that squad car wasn't in front of the stores I went to.
 
Would that be considered a "clean shoot" if he was walking away toward my car/truck and I shot him in the back or he made it into the car/truck before I got to him?

You are asking if it is OK to shoot someone in the back who is walking away from you? Even if it is legal, why would you shoot someone in the back who is walking away?

You'd better believe that I'd have shot out the tires of my own vehicle before letting some scum drive off with it AND my guns.

I think that is a really bad idea, and likely to get you arrested.
 
You are asking if it is OK to shoot someone in the back who is walking away from you? Even if it is legal, why would you shoot someone in the back who is walking away?

Vigilante justice… If only it wasn’t illegal…
 
The issue is whether you can shoot an ARMED assailant who has made a threat on your life, at a time when it is advantageous to YOU, ie when his back is turned or he is occupied with stealing your vehicle. As you are presumably right there next to him, your life is still in danger, as is anyone else nearby. Also, assuming the vehicle is loaded with firearms, you can make a case that you were trying to prevent a much more serious crime down the road. I believe that many states have provisions covering you for using deadly force to prevent a felony you know will be happening (ie, a guy robs you, then says he is going to go rape someone else), or who has dsiplayed homicidal behavior in the past and can be presumed to do so in the future (a felon making multiple car jacks during a high speed chase, by you shooting him, you are possibly saving the life of his next car jack victim).

Anyway, it probably all comes down to the DA in your area, and whether or not you gave a verbal warning to the crooks. Sneaking up on the guy and assasinating him with a shot to the back of the head won't look good (to a jury 6 months after the fact anyway). Calling on him to drop his weapon and get out of the car, then shooting him if he doesn't respond immediately, isn't much different IMHO, though the police might see it that way, especially if you were protecting dangerous/valuable cargo (firearms, explosives, kids, etc).

Ugh, if only Texas had open carry, range trips would be SO much easier!
 
The issue is whether you can shoot an ARMED assailant who has made a threat on your life, at a time when it is advantageous to YOU, ie when his back is turned or he is occupied with stealing your vehicle.

My point exactly!

I'm not 100% sure but I think it was a Home Depot parking lot in Grapevine, TX.

Nik
 
Breaking news

Just watched an update on Fox 4 news here in Dallas, this guy totally lied. He made up the story about the carjacking (apparently borrowed the truck to a buddy and it hadn't been returned) and the guns weren't in the truck. (According to Fox 4 they were stolen in a previous burglary)
Real class act.
:cuss:
 
Yep, heard about it on the radio :fire:

They didn't say what his motive was but that the police figured it out when the Home Depot servailance cameras showed him returning to get the truck later. What an idiot!!! :cuss:

Oh, and it occured/didn't occur in Grand Prairie, Texas not Grapevine.

Nik
 
What would be the legality of this situation?

Let the scum carjackers get in and start your rig up while you pull your .40 cal and unload on the vehicle with them in it?

Update: repsychler, wow that sucks! I wonder why he even made up the story?
 
last thing our (seriously wierd and prolly over armed instructor) said was... (this was sage advice) just because you are leaving the range - doesn't mean you don't save some ammo for the guns on the way back...

aka - an empty gun is ....... a club... rofl

of all the crap i heard spouted out of my CHL instructor... that rang true...

J/Tharg!

ps ... my seriously wierd and prolly over armed comment comes from a place where if its more than 1 gun w/ maybe an extra mag can take... you prolly shouldn't have been trying to solve it area.. =)

that being said... being over armed... means never being underarmed =)

rofl

i'm so conflicted =)

hehehee

J/Tharg!
 
It sure will be interesting to see if the "truth" of this matter can ever be sorted out. The guy has now give multiple stories, many of which sound like total BS.

He now says that the guns were stolen in a "home invasion" robbery several weeks ago, but that he never bothered to report it to the police.

He claims that he 'loaned' the vehicle to a friend who never brought it back.

He DID make a claim on his insurance policy for the truck, claiming it was car-jacked, but did NOT make a claim on his insurance for the "home invasion robbery" and the stolen guns.

None of this adds up. I am sure the police investigators have got all sorts of alarms going off in their BS detectors and are trying to get the guy to tell the truth, because it sure looks like up to now he has told nothing close to it.

Can you say "drug/gang" involvement? Yes, I knew you could. :D
 
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