H&K: Elite, Expert and Match v Sig: X6, X5 and P210 v Glock: 34, 24 and 17L

[el Godfather]

Dear THR:
As stated in subject line which group offers better guns for range shooting and collection?

Individually what is your experience with them?

Thanks.

 

[usp9]

I'd choose the HK group. The others are all outstanding as well, but the HKs suits me to a T, and are as accurate as any gun made.

 

[rockhopper46038]

I'd take the SIGs. I have an X-5 and it is a marvelous gun. I can only imagine the X-6 would make it even easier to shoot tight groups. The P210 is legendary, although if I was able to have my choice I'd select a vintage version over the new version. I might be a little tempted by the HK selection, but the Glock lineup is a very, very distant 3rd.

 

[C0untZer0]

I have a 17L and a G34 - nice guns but they're not in the same class as a Sigs or the HKs when it comes to accuracy.

 

[tommy.duncan]

I own Glocks and Sigs and I like both. I voted H&K.

 

[PO2Hammer]

Many years ago I owned a 9mm Elite (6"). I could easily shoot sub 2" groups at 25 yards with it. My 17L was not quite as accurate, but it is much more compact in profile. I did get a few sub 2" groups, but only with lead free frangible loads from SBR. Typical factory ammo was between 2"-3".

If you can find an Elite, buy it. You will not be disappointed with it's accuracy or it's resale value.

Never shot any of the others, but I had a crush on the P210 for many years. That's a fine looking pistol and I'm sure it's no slouch at the range.

 

[Morgo]

I own all those listed bar the X6 and G24.

IMHO the Sig's are easily the best target handguns and have the best build quality. They are after all Sig's top models. The Sig's are also likely the most collectible, especially an original P210 or P49, the USP Match comes in a close second (actually I guess that could be debated given some of the going rates for HK Matches of late) the others are all distant to these two in any case as far as collecting value goes.

The HK USP Expert, Elite and Match have, for me, all out shot any factory configuration Glock including the 34 and 17L.

 

[el Godfather]

Morgo, what extra features are there in Match over the Elite?

Lately I have been wanting to buy one but very rare finds.

 

[Morgo]

Morgo, what extra features are there in Match over the Elite?

Lately I have been wanting to buy one but very rare finds.

Hi mate,

The Match really has nothing over the Elite as far as a target handgun goes. Same barrel length though the Elite has its o-ring further up the barrel due to the longer slide.
The Elite also has a longer sight radius which theoretically means better accuracy.

The Match has the barrel weight which helps tame recoil for faster follow up shots but that's really about it.

Last Match, think it was a 9mm stainless, I saw on gunbroker sold for around $7k I think.

Theres a .45 version for sale now

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=366070333

 

[Robbins290]

Glocks are not in the same boat as h&k and sig. I chose sig. I have 3 sig pistols. Love them. I dont like h&k's that much. Havent found one i like yet

 

[Onmilo]

I have an H&K Elite in .45 acp. It is by far, the most accurate .45 pistol I have ever owned.
I have a G34 Glock and as stated, not in the same league.

At one time I owned not one but two Sig P210 pistols.
Foolishly sold them, wish I could get at least one of them back but the buyers aren't budging.

 

[bannockburn]

I like the ergos of the SIG line-up better than those found on the comparable H&K and Glock models. The P-210 would be the icing on the cake.

 

[Radagast]

I've shot the HK Match, Elite & Expert in 9mm and the Expert in .40. Also the USP 9, USP 40, USP9SD, & MK23.
I've shot the Glock 17L & 34, I've not shot the 24. I've also shot the 19,17,21,22, 27, 35 & 31. I qualified for the Australian IPSC team with a G17, FWIW.
I've no experience with those Sigs, have only shot the 226 & 220. I'll defer to Morgo on the relevant improvement of the match grade Sigs over the Glock & HK.

Between the Glocks & the HKs, as a static, down the line target gun the HK Expert & Elite rule. The O-ring barrel does add accuracy. Downside of these guns is the relatively crappy trigger vs 1911s or even a well done Glock trigger. Sights are exponentially better than the standard Glock sights. the gun does tend to jump around more under recoil, being light weight with a higher barrel axis than the Glock. I'm not a fan of the paddle mag release and found that the ambi safetys would hang up on the flesh of my palm.
The Match was simply a range toy - the guys who bought it thought it looked cool in Tomb Raider. If I knew they were going to go up 4 times in price I would have bought one too! Apart from looks and cost I really didn't see any difference between it and the standard USP.
I had a friend who shot the Expert in IPSC as an A grade shooter. He swapped to an STI 2011 and broke Expert at the next match. The USP platform is a limitation at the higher end of run and gun games.
If you plan to run and gun then the Glock 34 is probably a better platform, as there are a plethora of aftermarket triggers and sights. The standard trigger will wear in quite well anyway. The G24 & 17L will be excluded from some matches though as the long barrels puts them outside the rules.

If I was going to buy guns out of your group then I would gravitate to the Sigs because a) I've yet to try them, b) They have an excellent rep and c) I am aware of the drawbacks of the polymer guns in competition shooting.

 

[LebbenB]

I have both Sigs and HKs. The trigger on the Sig is (IMO as always) a bit better than the HKs so I tend to shoot slightly better groups with the Sigs. I also own a Glock or two, and outside of a qualified Glock 'smith slicking up the action, they in no way compare to the accuracy of either the Sigs or HKs.

 

[Hk Paul]

I've shot all those and own an expert and once owned an X-Five. In short, the X-Five is a work of art, but it isn't as good as the Expert. The trigger alone turned me off. I also dont like the way it feels in the hand. I think the Glocks are good, I'd rank them third here but I'd buy one of those way before I bought another x-five.

 

[el Godfather]

Morgo
Thanks for the info.

The Match sure has become collectable. My friend currently in czech is trying to locate one for me.

I have had DE 357 for a while now, but time has come to pull the plug on it and go for Match. Anyway I wanted DE in gold plated.

 

[Morgo]

Have you checked out some of Beretta's less common models?

The combat and steel I are also great shooters.

 

[el Godfather]

I have the Combat, but not the steel. I have been looking for one though.

 

[Lonestar49]

...

The SIG's - I've seen the_light



Ls

 

[powder]

Glock group: my 24c with a KKM 7" barrel has been incredible.

 

[el Godfather]

Morgo
I am vehemently after 93R as well. Trying to piece together over time bunch of rare items.

I have this broom-handle 10 shot with no markings (its in my country home otherwise I would have checked for some proof marks), it select fire clip fed.

I have been wondering what is its make since its not mauser nor astra. It was gifted to me by a very distinguished person. I found it to be rare because i had never seen 10 shot clip fed select fire. There are Astra 20 shot mag fed but they are not quite as rare.

Sorry for off topic post.


As for on topic- rare thread as well where Glock has got nothing on the competition models.

 

[Rinspeed]

I have a X-5 L1 and it's an incredible pistol. It will shoot groups at 50 yards that most pistols struggle with at 25 yards.

 

[TimboKhan]

If I am spending the money on any of those products, they are going to be more than range guns. They are going to be shot frequently and hard.

I have neither the money nor the inclination to just buy expensive guns as collector items.

But to answer the question I guess the Sig stuff. Honestly, while all the above are perfectly fine guns, I just have never been particularly smitten with either company. I did briefly own a Sig Scorpion 1911, and it was a good gun, but I sold it in order to buy a Ruger 1911 which I am just as happy with in terms of performance and more happy with in terms of cost.

If you can be a Glock fan while neither owning or intending to buy another Glock, then it would be fair to say I am a Glock fan, and I have owned a Glock that I enjoyed a great deal, but the Gen 4 Glocks give me slide bite, so they are not for me. Gen 3 Glocks didn't give me any hassle, and for the life of me I can't figure out the difference, but there it is. I suppose I would buy another Gen 3 model 26 for the right price, but I am not actively looking.