H & R 1873 Springfield Replica

[W/Vickers1938]

I am looking at a H & R 1873 Oficers Model trapdoor Springfield replica 45-70 Gov't. Iwas wondering if any of the membership has any experience or opinions on this particular rifle. I have a couple of Shilohs (50-90,and 45-120). I was looking for another period correct rifle, an original would be out of the question. But a rifle manufacture in 1971 would be a viable alternative.
Your inputs would be appreciated.
Thank you

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Why would an original be out of the question? Ive seen plenty of real Trap-doors in perfectly shootable condition (and some that were worn out, course).The H&R action isnt any stronger, and must still be shot with BP-spec. ammo.

To be honest, Ive seen at least 10X the number of decent original 1873s as H&Rs. That said, the H&R is a fine gun. The Italian clones are made on the old H&R machinery sold off after they went belly-up.

 

[cowboydave]

I used to own one. It seemed to be well made and I never had any problems with.it. I guess I owned it for about 15 years and didn't shoot it
a lot ,but when I did shoot it always worked with no problems..

 

[Shortgrub]

I shoot an original Trapdoor carbine and bought it as cheap as an Italian copy. And you can hear its stories

 

[Rebel Dave]

I have an H & R carbine. I changed the sights on it to original springfield carbine sights, cause the modern sights it came with didnt look right on it. It shoots good. I have taken a couple of White Tails with it.
All in all it is a decent carbine.

Dave

 

[Slamfire]

I would get the modern H&R. I assume the barrel is 0.458 which means no problems in shooting modern cast bullets, or jacketed.

I purchased this thing





and it blows chunks with modern cast 0.458". It is inaccurate and leads something awful. I can't shoot jacketed because I have been warned, it will wash out the barrel. Web lore is that this is 0.460 or larger in bore diameter and I have not gotten around to finding a mold that big. And probably never will, as I have one of these, and it shoots modern bullets pretty good.

 

[bear166]

Just chiming in to agree with others that you should really look into getting an original. I bought one about three months ago from Cabela's online gun library for all of $800 dollars (cheaper than any replica I've found) and had it shipped to another nearby Cabela's (don't think there was even a shipping charge for what that's worth to you). I'm not going to tell you that they can't get much more expensive than that, nor that this is the most pristine example of a Springfield Trapdoor that was able to survive the last ~140 years. But it did survive, and it's in more than a serviceable condition, with a fairly healthy bore and tight action. It might struggle at 200+ yards, but I'm not that good of a shot anyway!

Slamfire is right about bullet type considerations though. Guessing you may already know at least some of this since you have a couple Shilohs, but you will want to stick to cast bullets on an original, and not just any bullets. For one thing, most modern bullet lubes don't agree with black powder. For another, as he said, .458s will probably be a little too small for an original, although if you're shooting proper soft cast bullets (which you should just be doing anyway for black powder shooting IMO) you may be able to get away with it. But what I shoot in mine come from Desperado Cowboy Bullets (haven't got around to casting my own yet), and they are soft cast, come in .460, and are lubed such that they will work with black or smokeless powder. I haven't shot a ton of them yet, but I've been impressed so far. And although I've never tried it, smokeless powder (at BP-equivalent pressures only) should be okay, although shooting black powder is half the fun of owning one to me.

I'll say you will avoid some minor headaches by getting a replica, but just think how cool it would be to own the real deal! Easily the coolest thing I own.

 

[JT-AR-MG42]

H & R 1873 Oficers Model trapdoor Springfield replica

an original would be out of the question. But a rifle manufacture in 1971 would be a viable alternative

Think most of you missed the 'Officers' part when referring the OP to an original rifle instead.
Original officers models are quite a bit up in cost from a '73 or '84 standard rifle.

I'd also get the repro if I was looking for simple BP loading.
And the wiping rod gives it a nice Gemmer look.
The 45-70 loading will give you a BP break from the 50 or the 120.
My Shilohs are close, a 50-90 and a 45-110, so I understand completely the
desire for something a bit smaller every once in a while!

I've just looked at too many original trapdoors with oversize bores (requiring HB bullets at best)
and worn muzzle rifling from steel cleaning rods to buy another without being able to slug it first.

My H & R experience is limited to a carbine that came for a customer of my dealer friend. Fit and finish struck me as okay.
At the owners request, my dealer shot it with some factory equiv. 300 grain jacketed and BP 405's.
I had no interest in it but do recall it shot clean enough with the black, but groups were better with the jacketed.
All the info I can offer.

JT

 

[bear166]

Think most of you missed the 'Officers' part when referring the OP to an original rifle instead.
Original officers models are quite a bit up in cost from a '73 or '84 standard rifle.

I'd also get the repro if I was looking for simple BP loading.
And the wiping rod gives it a nice Gemmer look.
The 45-70 loading will give you a BP break from the 50 or the 120.
My Shilohs are close, a 50-90 and a 45-110, so I understand completely the
desire for something a bit smaller every once in a while!

I've just looked at too many original trapdoors with oversize bores (requiring HB bullets at best)
and worn muzzle rifling from steel cleaning rods to buy another without being able to slug it first.

My H & R experience is limited to a carbine that came for a customer of my dealer friend. Fit and finish struck me as okay.
At the owners request, my dealer shot it with some factory equiv. 300 grain jacketed and BP 405's.
I had no interest in it but do recall it shot clean enough with the black, but groups were better with the jacketed.
All the info I can offer.

JT

Good call, I did miss that fact. Some pretty solid reasons not to go to for an original too, even if it's an easy choice for me.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Yes, I believe the OP is looking for the Officer's Model.

I have two originals, a rifle and a Carbine. Both shoot wonderful with the replica cast 405 grain bullet over 70 grains. The rifle did have a worn muzzle, but boring the muzzle about 1/2" deep, out to .50" solved that. The rifle was made in 1884, the carbine in 1876. I got both for less money than a replica.

I think that if you go easy on the jacketed bullets, you won't wash out the rifling. Strictly for hunting, I shoot the Speer 400 grain JSP in the rifle, over 80 grains of 3f. I've only shot enough to sight it in, which is not many. If I want to shoot it for fun, I just shoot my "replica" standard 405 grain (416 out of my mold) over 70 grains load. The 45-70 load is my "carbine" load, the .45-400-80 is my "rifle" load. I do not find the recoil of the standard 45-70-405 load objectionable in the carbine, and as you can see it's accurate.

 

[792mauser]

The only thing to really watch out for on the reproductions is the trapdoor lock.

The thumb piece is secured with a set screw.
If that comes loose it's a pain to open.
There are a few ways to fix this minor issue.

Other than that, it's a great rifle.
Modern steel and all that. Shoot Modern trapdooroads to your hearts (or shoulder) content without worrying about washing out the rifling.

 

[PRD1]

The only thing to really watch out for on the reproductions is the trapdoor lock.

The thumb piece is secured with a set screw.
If that comes loose it's a pain to open.
There are a few ways to fix this minor issue.

Other than that, it's a great rifle.
Modern steel and all that. Shoot Modern trapdooroads to your hearts (or shoulder) content without worrying about washing out the rifling.

The information about the latch is correct, except that you need to know that the part of the assembly which is secured with a setscrew is the cam - that part which actually holds the breechblock closed and, perhaps more importantly, transfers the firing stress from the breechblock to the breechplug at the rear of the receiver. If the setscrew works loose (and I can testify that it may), it is quite a job to get the breech open. Best thing is to loctite the screw in place , and check the assembly for looseness every time you use the rifle. The original thumbpiece, shaft and cam were one piece, and held in place in the breechblock by a plate and screw, but apparently H&R (and the Italians) found that too much trouble to duplicate. Also, having measured hundreds of original trapdoor barrels with proper internal micrometers, I can testify that, while the Ordnance specification called for a bore diameter of .450" and groove depth of .005", which would result in a standard groove diameter of .460", the actual average groove diameter is closer to .462", and I have measured barrels considerably larger than that - up to .468".

PRD1 - mhb - MIke

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I've never measured my bores, but the bullet I shoot comes out of my mold at .460" exactly, and shoots accurately. That "could" be why. !!!!

I have some pitting just ahead of the case mouth, in my chamber. I've heard the Springfield can be re-chambered to 45-90 easily...it that true? How much longer is the 45-90 case?

 

[PRD1]

I've never measured my bores, but the bullet I shoot comes out of my mold at .460" exactly, and shoots accurately. That "could" be why. !!!!

I have some pitting just ahead of the case mouth, in my chamber. I've heard the Springfield can be re-chambered to 45-90 easily...it that true? How much longer is the 45-90 case?

If you shoot blackpowder, soft lead bullets will 'bump-up' to fill the grooves, which is why the original trapdoor and military ammunition shot reasonably well. Of course, your barrel MIGHT actually measure .460" across the grooves.
The .45-90 is also known as the .45 x 2.4", and the case is thus .3" longer than the .45-70 at 2.10".

PRD1 - mhb - MIke

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Yes, I always use pure (or as pure/soft as I can find) lead for all my black powder arms. My rifle is a little bit less accurate than my carbine, shooting the same loads, or the .45-70-405 load. Again, 416 grains out of my LEE mold. Have never shot the .45-80-400JSP load in the carbine. Don't know if it has a bigger bore, or that the pitting ahead of the chamber is the culprit.