H&R/NEF vs. Savage Stevens 200

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tommer

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Savagearms.com lists prices. HR1871.com doesn't list prices.

Comparing prices on Gun Broker reveals that H&R singles sell for about the same amount as Stevens 200s.

It seems like the 200 is a lot more rifle for the money.
 
I have an old pre-accutrigger Savage (basically a Stevens). I got that trigger set down to 3 crisp pounds, perfect for a hunting rifle. I've had a couple of the 20 gauges from NEF, not sure if the action is the same as the rifles. Had to have the first one tuned by a smith to lighten the trigger because it was so stiff my daughter couldn't pull it! :rolleyes: Had it stolen when someone broke in my house and went and bought another one. That one was lighter.

Between those two, it's a no brainer, hands down, Stevens for sure. It'll likely be more accurate, too. My Savage is a 1 MOA gun in 7mm rem mag. I got nothing against single shots, have a Contender I hunt with, I'm just not impressed with the NEF stuff other than CHEAP single shot shotguns that can be useful as knock round beaters or loaners or that.
 
Good Luck on this topic... I vote for H&R... But I'm biased... I just don't like cheap black plastic stocks... I would mush rather have cheap wood stocks...

Chad
 
I took that cheap junky wood stock off my Savage and put a plastic stock in its place, got 30 bucks for the wood on ebay. I prefer plastic, no change of zero when I drive from my bay front home to New Mexico's desert. No worries about banging around in the sticks. I use the gun, didn't buy it to admire it's stained birch. :rolleyes:
 
I really like mine...the stock does leave something to be desired but hey...for the price you can deal with it until you want to upgrade, IMO.


Ditto the trigger...I got mine adjusted down to about 3.5 lbs...its not like my Timney or Bold on my mausers, but its better than my FAL. :D
 
I'd go with the Stevens. It will likely be more accurate, is lighter, and can be upgraded or worked on in the future. It's a Savage without the accutrigger. Positives are everything that a bolt action can offer such as a safety. Negative? Stock is fairly cheesy.


I've had an NEF before. Great rifles for the money. What I love about them: Due to having no action, they are stunningly short for their barrel length. You either get lower OAL or more barrel for the same OAL as a bolt action. Stocks are nice on them. The synthetic is made by Choate and is solid. Good recoil pad on there too. The shape of the buttstock is perfect. Another nice thing is how it comes with a Weaver rail - so you can mount a scope without having to get mounts (just rings). If you mount a scope to just clear the hammer - the eye height/cheekweld will be PERFECT. At least with my head :D. I like how I can shoulder it quickly and the sight picture is there - it's right there. No adjustment or movement needed. That makes it fantastic for field shooting or any other practical shooting position. Trigger is decent. It is about 4-4.5lbs.


Negatives? Not fun to shoot off the bench. It is a little slow to load and fire. It can be a little front heavy due to the heavy barrel. Some shoot, others do not shoot. A gamble on getting a good shooter. You can't pull the trigger slowly to sqeeze off a shot - that alters the hammer strike on the transfer bar, and thus effects accuracy due to a change in primer ignition.


They are both hunting rifles. Neither is made for the bench or for plinking. The Stevens is lighter and will do whatever you need it to do on a hunt. 1-2moa...they're both accurate enough for their intended purpose. If the NEF had a thinner barrel - I'd consider it. I wouldn't want to hike around with an NEF.
 
Nothing wrong with the Stevens stock for hunting. It's amazing how people go on and on about it. You'd think other manufacturers sell their guns with McMillan stocks for $275. Anyway.........the Stevens is a lot more gun, and will usually be sub-MOA out of the box. If not, it's the trigger. Easy to stiffen the forearm with some epoxy........
 
Well, remember that h$r, and nef is pretty much all solid steel, with a thick, juicy bbl. But If you shoot a lot, or like to go to the range, the savage will not wear you out so much, but if you know the tricks, the break opens will shoot more accurately , for a longer time, and take rapid fireing better, without opening up groups.
 
I don't know about the Stevens being sub-moa. A couple might be, but the same way the stock is cheesy because it is a $275 rifle, you aren't going to buy sub-moa performance for that money when others pay $1,000 or more for it.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/longgun_reviews/stevens200_041106/index2.html


1.33" average of five 5-shot groups. 3-shot groups are lame for measuring accuracy since I've had dozens of 3-shot groups go into .3moa. 5-shot is minimum for testing accuracy. That was with the 168smk in a handload at 2625 which is great load. The others did 2" give or take.

Still, for $275 - that is EXCELLENT. But please, spare me the sub-moa stuff. It is so misleading. This forum, just like the rest of the web perpetuates the impression that just about anything you buy off the shelf is going to be sub-moa shooter if 1] you do your part 2] you handload.

That happens a lot with NEF's. Someone shoots a 3-shot .25moa group and declares their rifle a sub 1/2 shooter out of the box. And they do so in a thread where someone is asking about the typical accuracy of that rifle, not the miracle group. Then, some more people come along with their fish-stories or half-truths and you get a few more positive posts. The guy goes and buys it and finds that they can't get it to shoot a single group under 2" ...then you see them posting on Graybeard forums all distressed because their gun won't shoot. The guys who made those claims will then advise on how to fix it. Get an O-ring. Try some funky shoot/clean/shoot break in procedure. Judge it only after the first 250rds when the bore smooths. Rest it all the way back at the trigger guard. All when the culprit is obvious. It is a $200 rifle!

The sad irony is, a gun that is shooting 2" at 100 yards is viewed as an issue or a problem. That's the bizarre part. Particularly when it's a hunting rifle and that is plenty of accuracy for that, and generally speaking, 2moa is good rifle accuracy - sans the sub-moa craze that goes around web.
 
Sorry; "Don't tread on Me";

The Stevens M200 in .243wcf I had stolen from me WAS a Sub-Moa rifle for 5-shots. Not with just a single load, but several.......

Sierra 80gr PtSpt. 38.0gr Varget, OFB, Fed #210primer. match prepped (neck-turned, ect).
Several 5-shot groups running 0.55-0.65" Velocity ~3,300fps.

Hornady 100gr BTSP, 42.0gr RL-22; 0.67"-0.88" @ 100yds.
Nosler 95gr Balistic Tip, 42.5gr RL-22; .060"-0.70".

Not just on one day either.

Shot FAR-FAR better than any of the H&R "Handirifles" I've had. Best of the bunch was a .22mrf. It would occasionally shoot 1.25" for 5-shots. Most were "Minute of paper-plate" at 100yds.

BUT;My Savage M110 in .300RUM won't....... (shoot moa)
Weatherby Vanguard .257wbymag won't........
Remington M7 in 7mm-08 won't........
Remington M7 in .223 -occasionally with select loads...will
Remington M700 "Express" in .22-250 will...with good ammo
MkX Mauser w/custom barrel in .338/06..won't with ANYammo
M98 Mauser E.R.Shaw bbl in .257Roberts WILL with MOST ammo.......
Marlin 1895GG in .45/70 WILL with "good" ammo....(suprised ? I was!! )

So, you're halfway correct. It's all in the luck of the draw regarding barrel quality and fitting.
 
Yeah, it is luck of the draw, but the odds are like playing a scratch-off. And if what you say is accurate, you're that "couple" that I was speaking about. I wouldn't go out and buy a Stevens 200 and expect sub-moa performance based off of your testimony. I don't mean that in a negative way, it's just that your example is of an exceptional one, not the typical or average.

Sorry to hear it was stolen. That was a REALLY excellent shooter, regardless of price. It stinks to have anything stolen, but that was a real steal being you paid less than $300 for 5-shot sub-moa rifle. The only factory gun that guarantees that is Sako, and we know how much those cost....


Also, thanks for the list of rifle you own that do not shoot MOA or will only with very good ammo. That is honesty right there, and what I consider typical realistic performance. Most factory guns won't do sub-moa 5-shot. Many guns don't do it all the time even when they do some time.

My rant was focused on those people who shoot the following:

3-shot groups. One goes 2" ...next 1.5, next 2.2, next 1.2 then one goes 0.75 --- Rifle declared sub-moa "if you do your part" ..LOL.
 


I can get SUB MOA with my Savage Model 200 with a Chaote ultimate sniper stock, super sniper 10x, Ken Farrell rings/base, and 168gr federal gold medal match. This has been known as the poor man's tack driver for a while has it not? It took me a couple of months of trying different ammo and practice to finally get it right but it was my first bolt rifle. The Choate stock helped a lot and made it real easy to practice good shooting habits, plus the monopod was nice for getting me right on target.
 
Excellent shooting. Now, take that to 5-shot groups, then shoot 5 groups and average it. I don't think the groups will grow much, but I think they will. That article I posted came out with 1.33" ..outstanding performance. They used more or less a handloaded duplicate of 168gr FGMM. That goes along with what I said in a different thread recently, about certain loads being winners in whatever you put them in (typically).


What more do you need? If you are hunting with it, and you know that your cold bore shot is NOT going to deviate more than .5" in any direction - you have a serious tack-driver for hunting.
 
Don't tread on my three shot groups. :neener:

Seriously though, I've done a lot to the rifle to get it to where I want it and am handloading for it now. I've shot some five shot groups with similar results. I just don't see the benifit shooting five shot groups out of a rifle like this. It's not a heavy barrel rifle and I think it would misrepresent the intention of the gun itself. I don't forsee needing to shoot more than three shots "in the field" at anytime with this rifle. If the coyote doesn't drop from three shots from the .308 then he probably deserves to live.

That being said I think 5 shot groups are great when tracking group deviation in heavy barreled varmint/tactical rigs, but for typical hunting I'll stick with the 3shot groups.
 
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:D I understand. I'm not knocking your rifle. Great shooter. I would LOVE to be able to get a Stevens 200 and know it will do what yours does. For your purpose, that is plenty accurate.


But you can see from your very targets that 3-shot group is misleading. If you overlay the one on top of the other, all of a sudden that 6-shot group just grew in size. That's all I was saying.
 
No thats after adjusting the turrets to get on center. The second group is just adjusted a little too much in elevation. Don't worry though, that group is from months ago and i have the problem worked out now. I know you wren't knocking the rifle i was just jibbing you a little about group testing.

To the OP if you could save a little more you could get a heavy barrel which is something i kind of wish I had done. Look at the Savage 10fp in choate stock, or possibly the 12fvss(thats my next purchase).
 
Have both Savage not stevens and an nef handi rifle. 3 barrels for the savage , 25-06 22-250 .223 SOON TO BE A .222 2 stocks, modified 112 laminate and the plastic factory one also modified to be stiffer and to free float a 28 inch pac-nor straight , no taper 1-9 twist barrel. three scopes 8- 32 burris signature 8 - 32 tasco and a 6.5 - 20 Simmons 2 triggers actually 3 if u count the stock one other two are rifle basix 1 and 2 . Have a lot of groups less than .250 with the 28 inch tube , to be expected . But the factory 25-06 barrel will and has put 10 rounds in less than 1/2 inch . more than once. Don't try to tell me a factory Savage don't shoot. Have targets that will tell different.

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For the Handi I have 2 barrels 22 hornet and .223 . Accuracy is so so . I have shot 4 into less than 3/4 inch at 200 yds , with the 5th flying off 3 inches. Yes it does shoot decent , but it is the most unpredictable gun out of the almost 30 that I havearound here. Finiky and picky how it is closed where the front is rested, hold is critical. It shoots to a different impact off hand than on the bench. But I still like the Handi , it comes to be a great little truck gun.
 
Bolt guns are inherently more accurate than single shots with separate fore/butt stocks. The single shot has too much touching the barrel, too many ways for the barrel to be deflected like just resting it over a rest or in the hand. The bolt gun barrel can be floated if it's not from the crate. I floated my Savage. It shoots sub MOA all day long just as long as your shoulder can stand the 7 mag punishment. But, guess what, THE FIRST SHOT IS THE ONLY SHOT THAT COUNTS in a hunting rifle. Somewhere between the first shot and the 45th, that deer is going to be in the next county if you didn't make the first one work. And, if you're talking bench rest, there is a reason bolt guns rule that sport.

Not only can you float the barrel of a bolt gun, but bedding it, one way or the other often greatly improves a rifle. But, my Savage, out of the box, would shoot 1 moa with proper ammo. Floating it did decrease the verticle stringing a bit, made the groups nice and round and decreased them just a tad in size.

Anyone that thinks your average break open single shot will out shoot your average bolt gun ain't smelled fresh air in a while. Oh, they're adequately accurate, but even TC die hards often talk about ways to reduce the vertical stringing that is inevitable when you have a fore stock bolted directly to the barrel. They're plenty accurate enough for hunting, mind you. But, you ain't often gonna match a well set up bolt gun with one, even a Savage or Stevens, for group size. If you could, they'd take over bench rest competition. They haven't.
 
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