32 Magnum
Member
No need for the 777 - I'll log the AU if you don't mind Mr. Ritchie.
H&R SPORTSMAN Research
- Thread starter 32 Magnum
- Start date
- Status
32 magnum,
Here's the info on my 1980 Sportsman pieces
6" Barrel
1. AU117458
2. Frame
3. Yes, No patent
4. Left
5. Left side, under cylinder
6. DA
7. Adjustable
6" Barrel
1. AU168128
2. Frame
3. Yes, No patent
4. Left
5. Left side, under cylinder
6. DA
7.Adjustable
4" Barrel
1. AU183392
2. Frame
3. Yes, No patent
4. Left
5. Left side under cylinder
6. DA
7. Adjustable
4" Barrel
1. AU082686
2. Frame
3. Yes, no patent
4. Left
5. Left side under cylinder
6. DA
7. Adjustable
All have fluted barrels, not ventilated.
I seem to remember seeing a 1979 model that had the fully ventilated barrel.
Can you give me a definite year they stopped fully ventilating the barrels, and went to the fluted barrel?
Thanks!
Jim
Here's the info on my 1980 Sportsman pieces
6" Barrel
1. AU117458
2. Frame
3. Yes, No patent
4. Left
5. Left side, under cylinder
6. DA
7. Adjustable
6" Barrel
1. AU168128
2. Frame
3. Yes, No patent
4. Left
5. Left side, under cylinder
6. DA
7.Adjustable
4" Barrel
1. AU183392
2. Frame
3. Yes, No patent
4. Left
5. Left side under cylinder
6. DA
7. Adjustable
4" Barrel
1. AU082686
2. Frame
3. Yes, no patent
4. Left
5. Left side under cylinder
6. DA
7. Adjustable
All have fluted barrels, not ventilated.
I seem to remember seeing a 1979 model that had the fully ventilated barrel.
Can you give me a definite year they stopped fully ventilating the barrels, and went to the fluted barrel?
Thanks!
Jim
Last edited:
vanagon40
Member
I hate to throw another monkey wrench into this research, but this is another revolver presumably purchased in 1935 bearing patent number 2034632, which was not issued until March 17, 1936.
I just got off the phone with a friend who is a patent attorney and he assured me that patent numbers are not issued prior to the date of approval--or maybe a week earlier. In other words, H&R would not have known the patent number 2034632 prior to March 1936.
I have absolutely no knowledge of H&R firearms history, I am just confident that the cylinder on MQP's revolver was not manufactured until after March 17, 1936.
32 Magnum
Member
Jamesjo,
Thanks for the info. Logged in - also - I'm not sure of the date/year when the "vented" rib gave way to the "fluted" rib. From the info I have so far it happened sometime between 1976 and 1980. I'm getting close as info comes in, but some of the info is incomplete and therefore frustrating until some one fills in the gaps. I have a potential source who may know when this happened, he already told me WHY the change occured. I'll let you know when/if I find out.
Thanks for the info. Logged in - also - I'm not sure of the date/year when the "vented" rib gave way to the "fluted" rib. From the info I have so far it happened sometime between 1976 and 1980. I'm getting close as info comes in, but some of the info is incomplete and therefore frustrating until some one fills in the gaps. I have a potential source who may know when this happened, he already told me WHY the change occured. I'll let you know when/if I find out.
32 Magnum
Member
Vanagon,
Thanks for the post and follow-up. THERE ARE NO MONKEYWRENCHS - simply/merely FACTS.
One of the reasons I'm concentrating my research on SPORTSMAN variations and asking the questions that I posted is due to inconsistencies and resulting confusion concerning years of manufacture. Not to sound snide - but "we" (meaning the late Bill Goforth who was compiling the "historical" data and applying years of manufacture to the series) are/were aware of the two patent date anomaly. Bill was attempting to provide dates based upon issuance of catalogues and I was helping by supplying pictures of actual examples. The confusion arises from the "assumed" production numbers/quantities noted based upon serial numbers and then applying serial number ranges to various variational changes noted. From the limited information that I'm beginning to accumulate, it appears that many of the "assumed" serial number ranges are incorrect. The earliest SPORTSMAN that I own (and also the lowest s/n that I've so far seen) with two patent dates is D23338. Again, "assuming" somewhat steady demand and production quantities seems to have skewed the logic. There are a couple verifiable dates to go along with variations: the first is October 1932 - which is the first month of production for the SPORTSMAN named revolvers; another is January 1, 1940 when the 'A' prefix was first used in the serial number; another is the March 17, 1936 PATENT DATE for #2034632.
It seems "we" miscalculated production quantities, therefore throwing the dating of serial number ranges out of kilter. It now seems that the SPORTSMAN took a couple years to "take off" in sales (not unreasonable considering it was a fairly expensive item initiated in the early and middle years of the GREAT DEPRESSION) - so only a few over 20K were made in the first 3 1/2 years of production and then over 70K more were produced after March of '36 up to Jan. '40 (a period of 3 3/4 years)- as the highest known serial numbers are close to 90,000 before the 'A' prefix starts to show up, . After the letter prefix system was initiated - the numerical portion of the s/n is merely the place holder of that particular handgun (independent of model) made during that year. Research is FUN!
I need more data, but what I'm seeing develop (not having access to Bill Goforth's research - his family has retained the bulk of it, I hope) is in line with what I posted above. I hate to re-research, but I have no recourse at this point and whatever I can find out, will make the picture much cleared for me and every other interested party.
Forgive me for seeming dense and a bit slow moving - but after 30+ years doing QA/QC and management type work in heavy industry, I'm not in the habit of jumping to conclusions with out concrete evidence - speculation is OK, but only if it can be substantiated with FACTS. It is only through people such as yourself and the other folks that have contributed info/data that my reseach can continue and perhaps reach some level of certainty.
Keep those "monkeywrenchs" coming.
Thanks for the post and follow-up. THERE ARE NO MONKEYWRENCHS - simply/merely FACTS.
One of the reasons I'm concentrating my research on SPORTSMAN variations and asking the questions that I posted is due to inconsistencies and resulting confusion concerning years of manufacture. Not to sound snide - but "we" (meaning the late Bill Goforth who was compiling the "historical" data and applying years of manufacture to the series) are/were aware of the two patent date anomaly. Bill was attempting to provide dates based upon issuance of catalogues and I was helping by supplying pictures of actual examples. The confusion arises from the "assumed" production numbers/quantities noted based upon serial numbers and then applying serial number ranges to various variational changes noted. From the limited information that I'm beginning to accumulate, it appears that many of the "assumed" serial number ranges are incorrect. The earliest SPORTSMAN that I own (and also the lowest s/n that I've so far seen) with two patent dates is D23338. Again, "assuming" somewhat steady demand and production quantities seems to have skewed the logic. There are a couple verifiable dates to go along with variations: the first is October 1932 - which is the first month of production for the SPORTSMAN named revolvers; another is January 1, 1940 when the 'A' prefix was first used in the serial number; another is the March 17, 1936 PATENT DATE for #2034632.
It seems "we" miscalculated production quantities, therefore throwing the dating of serial number ranges out of kilter. It now seems that the SPORTSMAN took a couple years to "take off" in sales (not unreasonable considering it was a fairly expensive item initiated in the early and middle years of the GREAT DEPRESSION) - so only a few over 20K were made in the first 3 1/2 years of production and then over 70K more were produced after March of '36 up to Jan. '40 (a period of 3 3/4 years)- as the highest known serial numbers are close to 90,000 before the 'A' prefix starts to show up, . After the letter prefix system was initiated - the numerical portion of the s/n is merely the place holder of that particular handgun (independent of model) made during that year. Research is FUN!
I need more data, but what I'm seeing develop (not having access to Bill Goforth's research - his family has retained the bulk of it, I hope) is in line with what I posted above. I hate to re-research, but I have no recourse at this point and whatever I can find out, will make the picture much cleared for me and every other interested party.
Forgive me for seeming dense and a bit slow moving - but after 30+ years doing QA/QC and management type work in heavy industry, I'm not in the habit of jumping to conclusions with out concrete evidence - speculation is OK, but only if it can be substantiated with FACTS. It is only through people such as yourself and the other folks that have contributed info/data that my reseach can continue and perhaps reach some level of certainty.
Keep those "monkeywrenchs" coming.
Jim,
OK, If you can't tell me the when, please tell me the why!
I just seem to remember watching an auction awhile back, a 1979 model I think, and it was fully ventilated.
I will start watching to see if we can nail down the year for sure.
Jim
OK, If you can't tell me the when, please tell me the why!
I just seem to remember watching an auction awhile back, a 1979 model I think, and it was fully ventilated.
I will start watching to see if we can nail down the year for sure.
Jim
32 Magnum
Member
Jim,
Unacceptable number of "curled" barrels during heat treating after machining process.
Unacceptable number of "curled" barrels during heat treating after machining process.
1. B1190 (I believe 1941 DoM).
2. Hammer
3. There is a raised rim around the outside edge of the cylinder. No visible patent numbers.
4. Rear sight lifts to unlatch cylinder.
5. Right side of barrel (Worchester, Mass).
6. DA
7. Adjustable for height. Rear is adjustable for windage.
PS: The last digits of serial are on the bottom of rear sight, the cylinder and on the ejector star.
2. Hammer
3. There is a raised rim around the outside edge of the cylinder. No visible patent numbers.
4. Rear sight lifts to unlatch cylinder.
5. Right side of barrel (Worchester, Mass).
6. DA
7. Adjustable for height. Rear is adjustable for windage.
PS: The last digits of serial are on the bottom of rear sight, the cylinder and on the ejector star.
Last edited:
32 Magnum
Member
SAXON PIG,
Thanks for the info. It's logged.
As you stated - it's a 1941 ('B' prefix) piece, 1st Model 7th Variation.
All the parts are as they should be.
The "cylinder release" on that variation is the small push button on the left side of the "quill" or cylinder rod tunnel, just in front of the cylinder itself.
Pushing in on that little button while the action is broken open allows the cylinder to "pop" off of the quill.
Thanks, again.
Thanks for the info. It's logged.
As you stated - it's a 1941 ('B' prefix) piece, 1st Model 7th Variation.
All the parts are as they should be.
The "cylinder release" on that variation is the small push button on the left side of the "quill" or cylinder rod tunnel, just in front of the cylinder itself.
Pushing in on that little button while the action is broken open allows the cylinder to "pop" off of the quill.
Thanks, again.
32 Magnum
Member
Saxon,
From my experience (I own 33 Sportsman revolvers) shooting a couple of the early (pre WW2) vs the later (post 1952) - while both a great guns, in general when taken care of, the earlier ones are inherently more accurate and have "finer" actions and trigger pulls. H&R seemed to have taken more care with respect to fit and finish and the "special" rifling used back then in the pre WW2 era.
Here's a couple fairly early pieces:
From my experience (I own 33 Sportsman revolvers) shooting a couple of the early (pre WW2) vs the later (post 1952) - while both a great guns, in general when taken care of, the earlier ones are inherently more accurate and have "finer" actions and trigger pulls. H&R seemed to have taken more care with respect to fit and finish and the "special" rifling used back then in the pre WW2 era.
Here's a couple fairly early pieces:
32 Magnum
Member
jamesjo,
Suck it up and start buying MORE - LOL!
Suck it up and start buying MORE - LOL!
OldCavSoldier
Member
Have you received any more details to help narrow down even further (1936 - 1937) the year of my Dad's Sportsman, ser # 4844X ?
Last edited:
Yeah, I know.
I just need way too many AU pieces yet.
There are a couple more Sportsman that are of have to buy status though.
First is an " X " prefix model,I was born in 1961
2nd would be any of the Silver Sportsman models. ( There's this guy I know....)
Other than that, I probably won't be catching up any time soon!
Jim
32 Magnum
Member
OldCavSoldier,
Your piece is beginning to look like 1935. Getting more info in and some of it is confusing because markings look to be somewhat inconsistent - probably a case of using "older" parts out of s/n order - not unusual. Still need more good data.
Your piece is beginning to look like 1935. Getting more info in and some of it is confusing because markings look to be somewhat inconsistent - probably a case of using "older" parts out of s/n order - not unusual. Still need more good data.
tightgroup tiger
Member
I have a H&R 22 special from what I believe is the late 1920's
S/N 508060. It is built like the sportsman but has the 2 piece sawhandle grips.
It looks like the sportsman or the forerunner of it. 6" barrel, 7 shot, tip open.
I referenced the date from my blue book.
S/N 508060. It is built like the sportsman but has the 2 piece sawhandle grips.
It looks like the sportsman or the forerunner of it. 6" barrel, 7 shot, tip open.
I referenced the date from my blue book.
32 Magnum
Member
tightgroup,
If your 22 SPECIAL is a 7 shot, it is either chambered in .22 rimfire (as stamped on the right side of the barrel) or .22 Winchester Rim Fire (stamped on right side as .22 W.R.F. and with W.R.F. stamped into rear face of the cylinder).
With that serial number it could be either one - if in .22 rf - it is a 1st Variation made between circa 1926 and '28. If in .22 WRF, it will be a 2nd Variation, made between 1928 and '30. If it is a WRF, it is a scarce version - need to know what you have for sure, based upon the cartridge markings.
If your 22 SPECIAL is a 7 shot, it is either chambered in .22 rimfire (as stamped on the right side of the barrel) or .22 Winchester Rim Fire (stamped on right side as .22 W.R.F. and with W.R.F. stamped into rear face of the cylinder).
With that serial number it could be either one - if in .22 rf - it is a 1st Variation made between circa 1926 and '28. If in .22 WRF, it will be a 2nd Variation, made between 1928 and '30. If it is a WRF, it is a scarce version - need to know what you have for sure, based upon the cartridge markings.
Last edited:
Geldarr
Member
Here we go:
1)Serial #: 54XXX
2)Firing pin on hammer
3)Safety rim and 2 patent numbers on cylinder
4)Cylinder release is a small button on left side in front of cylinder
5)Address is on the right side of the barrel
6)Double action (and a really nice SA trigger pull, too!)
7)Adjustable front sight
I'll see if I can get a picture loaded up too!
This is hands down, my favorite gun to shoot!
1)Serial #: 54XXX
2)Firing pin on hammer
3)Safety rim and 2 patent numbers on cylinder
4)Cylinder release is a small button on left side in front of cylinder
5)Address is on the right side of the barrel
6)Double action (and a really nice SA trigger pull, too!)
7)Adjustable front sight
I'll see if I can get a picture loaded up too!
This is hands down, my favorite gun to shoot!
Last edited:
32 Magnum
Member
Geldarr,
Thank you for the information. That serial number range is a bit indistinct at this time, need a bit more data - but your gun was made in either last half of 1936 or early 1937. It is a 1st Model 6th Variation.
You post that it has the safety rim with 2 Patent #s - that is good info.
Can you provide the numbers stamped into the breech face of the cylinder?
Concerning your statement that your SPORTSMAN is your favorite gun to shoot - I hear that alot, especially at the range with one of my SPORTSMAN pieces and when I lend it to someone, they always smile and tell me how much they enjoyed shooting it.
Thank you for the information. That serial number range is a bit indistinct at this time, need a bit more data - but your gun was made in either last half of 1936 or early 1937. It is a 1st Model 6th Variation.
You post that it has the safety rim with 2 Patent #s - that is good info.
Can you provide the numbers stamped into the breech face of the cylinder?
Concerning your statement that your SPORTSMAN is your favorite gun to shoot - I hear that alot, especially at the range with one of my SPORTSMAN pieces and when I lend it to someone, they always smile and tell me how much they enjoyed shooting it.
tightgroup tiger
Member
32 Magnum
Mine is a 22RF version sorry to say. I took some pictures of it for you but when I tried to upload them to you the site wanted some URL address that I don't know anything about.
Sorry about that
Tightgroup Tiger
Mine is a 22RF version sorry to say. I took some pictures of it for you but when I tried to upload them to you the site wanted some URL address that I don't know anything about.
Sorry about that
Tightgroup Tiger
tightgroup tiger
Member
H&R 22 special
32 magnum
Hopefully here are the pictures of my old H&R 7 shot 22 special. s/n 508060.
it says 22 rim fire on the side of the barrel
Hope this helps
32 magnum
Hopefully here are the pictures of my old H&R 7 shot 22 special. s/n 508060.
it says 22 rim fire on the side of the barrel
Hope this helps
Last edited:
Near as I can tell mine is about as new as they got. Finish and accuracy are good. The trigger sucks and the wood is plain ugly.
1. HH022XXX
2. Mounted in frame
3. The safety rim seems to be present but I see no patents anywhere on the gun.
4. Cylinder release: Small push button in front of the cylinder
5. Manufacturers address on left side of frame below cylinder
6. DA/SA
7. adjustable front site.
1. HH022XXX
2. Mounted in frame
3. The safety rim seems to be present but I see no patents anywhere on the gun.
4. Cylinder release: Small push button in front of the cylinder
5. Manufacturers address on left side of frame below cylinder
6. DA/SA
7. adjustable front site.
- Status
