Hammer falls when pushed

[DC Plumber]

Hey folks, my buddies 625 JM misfires a lot. Tonight we were looking things over and I thought that the single action felt weird. I cocked the hammer and was able to push on the hammer and make it (dry) fire. No ammo in the gun of course.

He bought it used. Is this a normally worn part symptom or a result of home gun smithing?

Does it need to be sent in for repair or is this an easy fix?

Thanks in advance. My buddy is not an internet kind of guy and is relying on my help.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Sounds like home plumbing at play.

Call S&W and arrange to have it sent in for repair

 

[stu1ritter]

The description of the problem for the conversation with S&W is "the hammer suffers from push-off". More than likely home gunsmithing. The revolver has a life-time warranty so it goes back to the mother ship.
Stu

 

[Sav .250]

Check out the U-Tube site for a tutorial on that weapon. May find a video/audio on the problem.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

It was not the same issue your friend is having, but I started a thread a while ago about a problem I was having with a Smith. Look at the picture in post # 2 from Mr. Borland. It'll give you an idea of how the trigger mechanism functions in a Smith revolver, and what some of the possible wear points are at. That is strictly informational though.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=772014

Either way, the gun needs to be sent back to S&W for repair. As 9mmepiphany suggests, I wonder if someone did a bubba trigger job, and over stoned the SA sear or trigger nose, which now allows the hammer to slip with a little pressure. Chances are the previous owner didn't even know the hammer would fall if you pushed on the hammer, as there really is no reason to perform such an action. This is just a undereducated guess.

 

[Drail]

"push off" is always the result of someone using a stone on the hammer hooks or sear - or both. The only permanent fix is new parts. The sear can be recut to a sharper angle but it is not going to hold up over time. Once you stone through the extremely thin case hardening the softer steel underneath will not maintain the correct angles. Rule No. 1 on S&W trigger work - do not touch the hammer hooks or sear nose.

 

[Rio Laxas]

I had push off problems with two stainless N frames, a 657 and a 629. Both of them had flash chromed hammers and triggers (before they switched back to case hardened) and I think that contributed to the problem.

I took them both to a gunsmith twice to try and correct the problem and it never would hold. I sold them both at a loss rather than find replacement parts.

 

[PJSprog]

Send it back to S&W. They'll make it right. I recently sent a used M64 (from 1993) back to them to replace a bent ejector rod. I paid shipping there, they fixed it for free and shipped it back for free.

That's a potentially dangerous gun in it's current state.

 

[DPris]

Neither you nor your buddy will be able to fix it at home.
Gunsmith time.

Local guy should be able to handle it, for a fee.

S&W may or may not charge you, since butcher jobs after the gun left their plant are not covered by warrantee.

They may fix at no charge just to be nice, or may charge for parts & repairs.

DO NOT CONTINUE SHOOTING IT THIS WAY!
Denis

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Any gun that you can push the hammer past full cock and cause it to fall is dangerous. As DPris said, do not shoot it. No telling when the situation will get worse and the thing will fire as you take your thumb off the hammer.

No, this is not normal wear, it is a sign of someone messing around inside the gun who did not know what he was doing. It does not take much to make a gun unsafe, a few file strokes can do it. No, do not even attempt to fix it yourself.

Yes, take it to a qualified gunsmith and have it repaired, or call S&W and ask them what to do. If they will not repair it for free, pay to have it repaired.

In the future, when considering buying a used revolver, ALWAYS check to be sure the hammer will hold full cock. Now you know what to look for. Of course, make double sure the gun is unloaded before pushing forward on the hammer. Yes, I know it is your buddy's gun, tell him what I said.

 

[DC Plumber]

Thanks guys. Just what we expected. That's ok. He's gonna let Smith and Wesson do it right. Even if it costs a few bucks it's worth it. The gun is very accurate.

 

[joed]

I had one that did the same thing. Turned out to be the previous owned reworked it. Had it repaired and never a problem since.

 

[Drail]

That gun is most definitely worth repairing.

 

[JC111]

Earlier this year I was at an estate auction. The deceased owner had been a very active competitive shooter and hunter during his earlier years. He had a very impressive collection of firearms to include a 4-screw S&W Model 27 with the 8 3/8" barrel. It looked great. But then I did the various used revolver checks. First thing I discovered was that I could push off the hammer and the second thing I learned was that I could rotate the cylinder both clockwise and counter-clockwise with very little effort.

I later learned (but before the bidding began) that the owner had been a real capable amateur gunsmith in his younger years, but the last decade or so of his life he had suffered from dementia. He was also known as a man who believed that if you're shooting a magnum revolver then by god you should shoot full-house magnum loads in it.

Glad I've read the revolver checkout article so many years ago and have taken the lessons to heart. that Model 27 went for over $800.00. I thought about saying something to the new owner, but didn't. It's been my experience that many folks really don't want to hear something negative after spending a lot of money. And perhaps the guy who won already knew about the problems and decided he was still going to get that Model 27 despite the problems. there are many folks out there who have more money than me.

 

[jad0110]

Yep, bubba and his dremel. Sounds like someone with a wussy weak trigger finger was going for a 10 oz SA and a 5 lb DA .

Sadly, I've seen more than 1 fine S&W butchered in this manner.

 

[JC111]

Yes it is sad to come across a Colt or S&W that has been "worked-on".

 

[rcmodel]

Here is a page from the S&W Armorers manual.

This is what they will do if you send it too them.

Unless the hammer is messed up, this will fix it.

I have fixed two 'push-off' guns in the last 5 months.
Just like that!!



rc

 

[Saleen322]

rcmodel is giving good advice. While someone could have altered it, push off is also a product of plain wear. I have seen and repaired a number of model 10s that were used for LEO training for push off. Those training firearms had seen multiple 100s of thousands of rounds through them and like any mechanical device they will wear. Not an unusual problem in a revolver and it can be a way to get a bargain in a used gun as it can scare off someone who is not knowledgeable in revolvers.

 

[jad0110]

^^^ Very true, good advice.

In the OP's case, the light strikes do give additional cause for concern. I'd suggest checking the strain screw as well. A lot of people improperly use it as a trigger adjustment mechanism (it changes the geometry of the main spring and mainspring stirrup in such a way that stirrup breakage becomes much more likely). About 1/3 of the used S&Ws I've purchased (including the most recent 686 3") had their strain screws backed out. That could explain the light strikes, but I've got a feeling someone dremeled the snot out of it ... I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Confederate]

I had push off problems with two stainless N frames, a 657 and a 629. Both of them had flash chromed hammers and triggers (before they switched back to case hardened) and I think that contributed to the problem. I took them both to a gunsmith twice to try and correct the problem and it never would hold.

The only permanent fix is new parts. The sear can be recut to a sharper angle but it is not going to hold up over time. Once you stone through the extremely thin case hardening the softer steel underneath will not maintain the correct angles.

One way to get around this is to set the parts the way you want them, then have them hard chromed at a finisher like Mahovsky's. You can have the entire gun chromed or just have the parts chromed. Once you go through the case hardening, the application of hard chrome will set the part so it will never wear out. The price of chroming parts is quite reasonable. People with Colt Pythons often have the hands, or pawls, of their guns hard chromed because the things are so small at the tips that they need frequent timing. And some shooters have their bores chromed to reduce leading and stop wear.

°°°

 

[243winxb]

pushing on a cocked hammer

I feel you should not be pushing on a cocked hammer on a S&W. It was used as a method to smooth out and lighten rough trigger on some firearms. But overall , a bad idea. Can add to much wear and tear. IMO.

 

[rcmodel]

I totally agree!!

I do it on 1911 trigger jobs all the time.
It works wonders to smooth them out!

But a 1911 hammer & sear ain't a S&W hammer!!

If you look at the hammer notch contact area on a S&W hammer??

Elmer Fudd could see thats a Bad Idear!

rc

 

[olafhardtB]

Pushing on the cocked hammer has worked for me on Winchester 94's

 

[CajunBass]

I had a Model 17 that would drop the hammer if I pushed on it.

The solution was simple.

I didn't push on it.

Never had another problem with it.

 

[Liberty1776]

like rcmodel said...

I do it on 1911 trigger jobs all the time.
It works wonders to smooth them out!

We used to call that a "door frame" trigger job. (cock it, and put pressure on the back of the hammer while pulling the trigger) The pressure was frequently provided by catching the hammer on a steel door frame and pulling slightly on it while pulling the trigger slowly.

Ok, so... we were young and not as smart as now...