Handgun observations from a relatively new owner/shooter

[unclenunzie]

About two years ago I started with handguns and can make these personal observations:

The likelihood of a good brand of revolver needing return to the factory is very low. The likelihood of a good brand of autoloader needing return is somewhat higher.

The first pistol I ever bought was a Ruger LCP. Having no experience but a strong desire to get one, I bought it almost on impulse after reading about them and their design shadow KelTec. Had to be returned twice to the factory before it became reliable enough for me (700+ rounds no bobbles).

I bought a Ruger Sp101 and also a Smith 686. Both never fail, excepting a bad lot of ammo the manufacturer replaced.

HK P30 - over a thousand rounds of all kinds, not a single burp of any kind, ever. It is the autoloader I trust the most so far. I did eventually buy a Glock 26, my first and only glock, and I really like it except it cannot compare internally with the HK. It is also free of errors of any kind, but is new and I only have a few hundred ball through it. Nevertheless, I expect it will remain 100% as I run it more. Gen 3, did not want to get a 4 just because I have learned not to go with what is really new right away.

Kahr PM9. 1200+ perfect rounds and two fail to feed in a single mag at that point from a box of gold dots. I put a new outer recoil spring in at Kahr's recommendation and it is fine. Personally I love this gun for it's mission, should CCW get going in my backward state of NJ.

Had Springfield do a safety inspection on my "Loaded" 1911 and look at why some fail to feeds were happening. They throated the barrel and I have been casually running it with factory mags but I decided to add some Wilson 47D's to the testing (100% but not lots of rounds so far).

NAA guardian .32 acp. Results of being on a small steel gun kick. Never could get it to run 100%, it is at the factory now for a revisit. Even though it is not working right yet, I still really like it. I guess I have a thing for small elegant guns.

CZ-75B stainless - I love this gun. I had a couple bobbles in the first 350 rounds, I expect it will break in pretty good once I run it some more. It is disturbingly accurate compared to my other nines. Shockingly so the first time I ran it. First round in the Q in a Q target, love at first sight.

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So what I am expressing here is, if you want to have fun any handgun will do that you personally like. If it is for civilian defensive purposes a revolver will probably be most reliable, least costly to operate since ammo testing requirements are lower compared to autoloaders. If you go for autoloaders, spend the money up-front and perhaps save on ammo testing and range fees. Go with proven, known reliable designs and brands that won't require expensive customizing, rework, or testing. Oh and also size seems to matter with autoloaders, smaller ones seem less reliable out of the box.

Eventually I will move to Florida, it will be a wonder to just go to a store and buy (or sell) what I want.


Just my thoughts : )

 

[synapse]

I am not disputing what you said - however, so I may learn from your experience, can you provide more detail to this statement:

"I did eventually buy a Glock 26, my first and only glock, and I really like it except it cannot compare internally with the HK."

Note: I do not own an HK, but it is on the wish-list.

Thank you.

 

[unclenunzie]

Looking at the metal parts in the frame, the HK parts appear more finished and the metal seems more heavy duty, at least to my eye.

The ejector in the HK looks like highly polished stainless or chrome steel, where in the Glock it is a stamped part and a bit rough edged.

Comparing the recoil assemblies of both guns, the Glock metal seems thin, where the HK metal is thicker, heavier, and seems like it would hold up better.

The firing pin block in the HK appears more heavy duty also, the Glock's FP block is smaller diameter - both brands are hardened steel of course. This could be designed in due to whatever diffs there may be between striker and hammer energy the pin would need to block.

The Glock's exterior slide finish has a kind of slick feel to it, which probably helps with cleanup and seems very tough. The HK exterior is more matte or dull black color, and does not have a slick feel. I have not looked at both guns together in a while but I think there were more machine marks in the Glock slide, but neither had much of this at all really.

The Glock has a very long field history of reliability and durability. Mostly that is why I bought it, and that it fits a niche between PM9 and P30. I have no doubts it will continue 100% as I run rounds through it.


The sense of the Glock I get, is that it was designed to be two things: Very reliable, and inexpensive to manufacture on an industrial scale. The HK seems like they put more over-engineering into what might be considered a more conventional design. In the way you might build a bridge to support 5 x expected max load, just in case.

 

[Fumbler]

You sure have had a lot of bad luck with semis.
I've owned many more autos than revolvers and I've never had a malfunction except for a RIA 1911 that wasn't really fitted properly.
My list of guns I've owned includes a couple of Sigs, a couple of CZs, a Glock, LCP, P3AT, 22/45, couple of 1911s, a Bersa...and I'm sure I've forgotten a few.
I own/have owned multiple Ruger, Taurus, and S&W revolvers and none has ever given me a problem either.

The likelihood of a good brand of revolver needing return to the factory is very low. The likelihood of a good brand of autoloader needing return is somewhat higher.

That might be true of your experiences, but I don't believe this is true on a wide scale unless you can pull up some numbers. I'm not saying the opposite is true, but how can you come to this conclusion if you consider many more autos are sold than revolvers. What's the failure rate per 1000 guns sold for any given model?

I've heard gun store employees bash certain guns for having problems, but when you probe them about it you find out that they return twice as many "X" model guns than "Y" model guns, but they sold 3 times as many X's as they do Y's.

 

[unclenunzie]

I can't recall ever reading of the availability of gun return for repair percentages that were verified and comparable across brands, models, etc. I doubt this information is ever going to be available since it would have to come from an expensive and time consuming effort, unless the manufacturers were willing (or compelled) to provide it. Highly doubtful to ever happen, so we're probably limited to personal experience reporting. My experience has been that the higher end brands do better, in some cases flawlessly. In other cases there have been issues. This does not mean that flawless performance is impossible, or even less likely, from more moderate but good brands. I can tell you only of my own experiences. I have read many happy reports of excellent showings from Bersa, but I have never owned, fired, held, or even seen one closer than a shop's glass case.

I do believe, without direct evidence of course, that returns are factored into the business plans of the manufacturers to varying degrees. They will certainly know that at a price point, a sales level will be achievable, and a how much per unit they can afford to spend on quality control versus the cost of returns. Reputation and target markets factor in also, so what I think is they plan for a certain level of returns as part of the cost of doing business. Some want this number to be very very low, with a higher price point on their products. Others accept a higher rate of return, with lower price point so volume is boosted or maintained. Naturally this is pure opinion on my part.

Perhaps I've had poor luck with autos, or maybe you've had great luck with them In truth, more of them have stayed with me then have had to go back. The modern service types seem to be top notch in the good or better brands like glock, springfield, HK, etc. Didn't note other top notch brands cause I don't own any, but I bet they are just fine also. The smaller size pistols gave me issues. The revolvers never did.

 

[DAdams]

Where are you headed in Florida. We lived there for 20 years (age 40-60) and couldn't wait to get out. I do like to visit a couple months of the year. A big problem with Florida and I am not kidding if something big and bad happens, hurricane of mammoth scale or something else freaky, a big long peninsula is not a good place to be trapped. Just my .02. I prefer the mainland.

 

[IMTHDUKE]

HK P30 - over a thousand rounds of all kinds, not a single burp of any kind, ever. It is the autoloader I trust the most so far.

Yep...and Yep

 

[S&Wfan]

Ninety five years now, and probably without a single hickup . . . that S&W Model 1903, 5th change from 1916. (The gun on the right in the photo)

Shoots great too. The five shot target to the left of its trigger guard was well less than an inch in size, at 10 yards. Note, each little square is exactly 1" tall and wide.

 

[Dave T]

Looking at the HK P30 makes me wonder about the people who say Glocks are ugly (LOL).

Dave

 

[IMTHDUKE]

Looking at the HK P30 makes me wonder about the people who say Glocks are ugly (LOL).

Your mother never told you that beauty is always in the eyes of the beholder?

 

[Dave T]

Your mother never told you that beauty is always in the eyes of the beholder?

Yea she did but as I've gotten older I've figured out mom said a lot of things that didn't turn out to be true. She told me a bunch of silly stuff trying to get me to straighten up and behave. (smile)

Dave

 

[Zerodefect]

Once I became familiar with the service intervals on a Glock I've found it far more reliable than my revolver.

Also keep in mind semi autos like 1911's and Glocks can be handled far rougher than a revolver and survive without damage. Revolvers are reliable, but fragile.

In a decent rifle "run & gun" event I'll drop to urban prone on my right side at least twice usually depanding on course layout/rules. Imagine landing/falling on your revolver regularly. Bent crane, barrel bent off alighnment, etc. etc. While my 1911 just gets scratched up.