Handgun Shipping Help Needed ASAP

[JH225]

I need to send a handgun to 07 FFL (Manufacturer) and am getting conflicting answers.

Both the 07 FFL holder and a local FFL holder are telling me it is OK to ship it via USPS because it is going from me to the gunsmith/manufacturer and back.

USPS regulations are confusing as hell on their website and a call to the local ATF office gets the answer of "my interpretation of the law say's you can't"

I don't want an interpretation, I want facts.

Can I or can I not send a pistol to a manufacturer via USPS for repair?

 

[Frank Ettin]

I need to send a handgun to 07 FFL (Manufacturer) and am getting conflicting answers.

Both the 07 FFL holder and a local FFL holder are telling me it is OK to ship it via USPS...

They are wrong. A non-licensee may not lawfully ship a handgun by USPS. Only an FFL may do so.

A non-licensee may ship a handgun only by common carrier (UPS or FedEx).

Pretty much everything anyone needs to know about shipping firearms is here.

 

[jonnyc]

My understanding is that YOU must have an 01 or 03 FFL to send and/or receive a handgun via USPS.

 

[JH225]

They are wrong.

That's what I am thinking. I am reading it as a person must have an FFL, but why would a manufacturer and an FFL tell me I can is the big question?

 

[RevDerb]

That's what I am thinking. I am reading it as a person must have an FFL, but why would a manufacturer and an FFL tell me I can is the big question?

Tell them to send you a prepaid UPS pkg and if you are responsible for the charges, add it to your bill.

 

[JH225]

03 FFL to send and/or receive a handgun via USPS.

I know that is absolutely wrong. I know this because I have an 03.

The handgun MUST qualify as an antique according to USPS definition of an antique.

An 03 FFL holder can mail any qualifying C&R according to Federal law, but unless it is an antique as defined by USPS, you are violating their rules.

 

[medalguy]

If you ship via common carrier it must go overnight at a ridiculous cost of nearly $100. If you take it to your local FFL he can mail it Priority Mail for a few bucks plus his fee which is likely to be around $20 or so, at least it is here. That's the cheapest and probably easiest way to do it.

 

[dogtown tom]

* I need to send a handgun to 07 FFL (Manufacturer) and am getting conflicting answers.

Did you read the sticky at the top of this forum?

 

[MachIVshooter]

My understanding is that YOU must have an 01 or 03 FFL to send and/or receive a handgun via USPS.

Send, yes. Receive, no. A manufacturer returning a firearm to owner ofter repairs can send it USPS. I've had 2 handguns returned to me USPS.

 

[dogtown tom]

MachIVshooter

Quote:
My understanding is that YOU must have an 01 or 03 FFL to send and/or receive a handgun via USPS.

Send, yes. Receive, no. A manufacturer returning a firearm to owner ofter repairs can send it USPS. I've had 2 handguns returned to me USPS.

It is a violation of USPS regulations for anyone other than a licensed dealer or manufacturer (an certain LE in an official capacity) to mail OR RECEIVE BY MAIL a firearm other than a rifle of shotgun.

Every shipment of a handgun requires that the licensed dealer or manufacturer submit a USPS Form 1508. This is their certification under penalty of law that they are shipping to another dealer or manufacturer.

https://about.usps.com/forms/ps1508.pdf

....The undersigned is a manufacturer of firearms or bona fide dealer therein, and the parcels presented for mailing
herewith are customary trade shipments or other articles for repair or replacement of parts. To the best of my
knowledge and belief, the addresses are manufacturers of firearms or bona fide dealers therein....

If a manufacturer returned handguns to you via USPS, he either didn't submit the Form 1508 or lied when he signed it.

There are several manufacturers that simply don't care about USPS regs, nor do they care if YOU violate the law by receiving those handguns. If I was you I would chew them a new one.

 

[Blue Brick]

18 U.S. Code § 922

2 (A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector;

 

[Blue Brick]

Hi-Point recommends USPS for returns. Better call the ATF and report them.



http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/manuals/JHP 45 ACP.pdf

 

[RustyShackelford]

GCA of 1968, shipment.....

To my limited knowledge, a gun owner(handgun) can mail a handgun to a licensed shop/gunsmith for custom work or repairs. The gun owner must use a private shipment firm like UPS or FedEx. The shipment must be insured/overnight express.
I think the weapon can be returned directly to the owner by FedEx/UPS the same way but that may have changed.

In 2007, I sent my factory stock Beretta 96D .40 & 03 11rd magazines by Fed Ex to Robar Guns in AZ, www.RobarGuns.com . I used a after market Plano case(with no lock). I used insured-overnight express & packed up the 96D. The Fed Ex office did not open or inspect it nor did they ask what the contents were.
The custom work took about 3 months & the items were mailed by FedEx from Robar directly to my home address. I got the Beretta 96D & .40 magazines as ordered with the Plano case.

Rusty

 

[dogtown tom]

Blue Brick 18 U.S. Code § 922

2 (A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector;

See that little phrase "in compliance with......"
USPS regulations ARE federal administrative law. And those USPS regulations clearly prohibit anyone other than licensed dealers, licensed manufacturers and certain LE from mailing firearms other than rifles and shotguns.

If you're going to quote something know what you are quoting.

Blue Brick Hi-Point recommends USPS for returns.

Sure they do, it's not them that is violating Federal law. (it would be you, an if USPS decides to make a "federal case" out of it guess who never gets to own a gun again? (again, that would be you.)

Better call the ATF and report them.

ATF doesn't care.......it's not their jurisdiction. USPS Postal Inspectors enforce USPS regs.

RustyShackelford To my limited knowledge, a gun owner(handgun) can mail a handgun to a licensed shop/gunsmith for custom work or repairs. The gun owner must use a private shipment firm like UPS or FedEx. The shipment must be insured/overnight express.

Do not confuse the terms "mail" and "ship". You can only mail via USPS, you can ship via USPS, UPS, FedEx, etc.

And as mentioned ad nauseum, only licensed dealers and manufacturers can mail handguns.

 

[Blue Brick]

See that little phrase "in compliance with......"

Yes, owned not mailed.

owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law

I own my firearms in compliance with Federal, State, and local law.

and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm

 

[Frank Ettin]

Hi-Point recommends USPS for returns. Better call the ATF and report them.



http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/manuals/JHP 45 ACP.pdf

Stop posting ignorant, bad advice that could get someone into a lot of trouble.

With reference to the Hi-Point booklet, you're misreading it. First, it says:

TO OBTAIN SERVICE UNDER WARRANTY

Send your firearm to us via Priority Mail or UPS along with...

Then it says:

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONCERNING SHIPPING THROUGH THE U. S. MAIL AND UNITED POSTAL SERVICE CALL 419-747-9444

The Hi-Point instructions are unclear, but Hi-Point does manufacture long guns which may be shipped USPS by a non-licensee. Furthermore, the Hi-Point instructions are obviously poorly thought out. Hi-Point says to ship the gun addressed to "Hi-Point Firearms." That's a lousy sort of practice. The address should never include anything that could help identify the contents of the package.

In any case let there be no mistake:

It is unlawful for anyone other than a licensee to ship a handgun by United States Mail.

Encouraging illegal conduct will not be tolerated.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Mail & ship, trash & garbage.....

Mail, ship .... Blah!
I'm glad I didn't go to law school.

This reminds me of the Casey Anthony trial in 2011, when a lawyer & "insect" expert were haggling over the definitions of trash & garbage.

Rusty

 

[JH225]

So yet again, there is a vast argument for and against. And yet again, the post office has proven that their regulations are confusing at best.

Personally, I went with choice C. Go to my LGS and ask him to mail it for me so I don't get a vacation to Club Fed.

 

[oneounceload]

They aren't confusing
If you are NOT a FFL you CANNOT send a HANDGUN through the USPS - long gun, yes

 

[Frank Ettin]

...the post office has proven that their regulations are confusing at best...

They're really not very confusing. See Chapter 601, Section 12.1.2 of the USPS Domestic Mail Manual:

12.1.2 Handguns and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in 12.1.3 and 12.1.5...

12.1.3 and 12.1.5 list some pretty clear and narrow exceptions that would not apply to this situation, e. g., certain military officers, certain LEOs and FFLs.

 

[hdbiker]

the owner of a handgun, you may ship it back to the original mfg. for repair without the need of a FFL.I done it several times using FEDEX.hdbiker

 

[Frank Ettin]

the owner of a handgun, you may ship it back to the original mfg. for repair without the need of a FFL.I done it several times using FEDEX.

Yes, that is legal -- using FedEx (or UPS). It would not be legal using the United States Mail.

 

[Midwest]

I live in KY, and if my Hi Point pistol needed to be fixed. Is there any law against me driving 250 miles to the company in Mansfield, OH, dropping the pistol off. And then have them ship it back to me? (Assuming I want to drive that far)
.

 

[dogtown tom]

Midwest I live in KY, and if my Hi Point pistol needed to be fixed. Is there any law against me driving 250 miles to the company in Mansfield, OH, dropping the pistol off. And then have them ship it back to me? (Assuming I want to drive that far)

No.
But a 500mile round trip will cost how much in gas?

 

[CoalTrain49]

They aren't confusing
If you are NOT a FFL you CANNOT send a HANDGUN through the USPS - long gun, yes

What's so hard to comprende?

I don't get it either.

I use an FFL to do all my handgun shipping. He uses USPS, Fedex or UPS. I can use UPS or Fedex but not USPS, which is the least expensive way to ship for an FFL. If a company or FFL wants to ship me a gun to my house that's their business but none ever have. I can't be responsible for what they do even if it is illegal.