Handload velocity!! 45-70.

[Axis II]

Just checked my Marlin 1895 22” barrel with 300hr jhp and 46-52.6 of imr4198. Something that struck me odd was how 49 gr and 52.6gr were at least 6” higher than each other! The middle target is 52.6gr. I know higher velocity will shoot higher but that’s pretty high imo. From start load to 49gr poi stayed pretty much the same and then skyrocketed!


Recoil was getting a hair uncomfortable so I think I’m sticking with 52.6 and bringing the scope down to 1.5” high at 100yrds for 150yard shots. The center target was 2 touching and 3 fliers.

 

[Llama Bob]

It's not necessarily just faster loads. If the barrel is osculating down when the bullet leaves, speeding up the bullet will cause a notably higher point of impact.

 

[Ireload2]

Pull your bolt and rest your rifle so you can view a 100 yatd target through the scope. The bore will be pointing about 3 feet over your target.

For most purposes you will enjoy shooting the rifle more when velocities are between 1000 fps and 1300 fps. There is not much of a reason to shoot high velocity loads year around just so you can shoot a few during hunting season.
High recoil loads will cause you to avoid shooting it. Sooner or later you will sell it. I have bought lots of 45-70 cases and bullets from guys that got tired of the recoil and got rid of their rifles.

 

[Varminterror]

As has been said above, a vertical shift of that much is a positive compensation issue - barrel harmonics, nothing to do with velocity and trajectory.

Pull your bolt and rest your rifle so you can view a 100 yatd target through the scope. The bore will be pointing about 3 feet over your target.

That’s odd. 2200fps under a 325 FTX has 5” of total drop to 100yrds. Add a 2” scope height, it’s 7”. I optically center my scopes, install them, dial the total drop based on ToF, dial the scope height, and punch on target... it sure isn’t 3ft above the target...

 

[Bixster_inc]

Not trying to hijack the thread but may I ask what is the benefit of pushing a .45-70 that fast?

Forgive my ignorance, I’m still relatively new to hand loading and I haven’t even fired what I’ve loaded for my 1895SBL yet. I loaded up 50 rounds of the Hornady 325gr FTX and 50 of the Hornady 350gr Interlock RN using 45 grains of H4198 in both.

My rounds, according to the Hornady book will be significantly slower than OP’s yet further reading elsewhere (after crimping unfortunately) and as mentioned above I’m starting to believe I’ll still be too hot for a pleasurable shooting experience.

 

[dh1633pm]

I load my 1895G for hot and not so hot loads. Its up to the shooter to determine what recoil they can handle and what they cannot. I load just a bit hotter for hunting. I don't feel them at all except for when I sight them in.

My 1895G seems, no matter what I feed it, stays the same for windage. The hotter rounds hit higher and the lower powered hit lower. I use AA5744 instead of the 4198, but same type bullets. For low power loads I use Unique with lead. Find a load that works for you and stick with it. I don't care if it recoils, I do care that it hits where I aim.

 

[Axis II]

Not trying to hijack the thread but may I ask what is the benefit of pushing a .45-70 that fast?

Forgive my ignorance, I’m still relatively new to hand loading and I haven’t even fired what I’ve loaded for my 1895SBL yet. I loaded up 50 rounds of the Hornady 325gr FTX and 50 of the Hornady 350gr Interlock RN using 45 grains of H4198 in both.

My rounds, according to the Hornady book will be significantly slower than OP’s yet further reading elsewhere (after crimping unfortunately) and as mentioned above I’m starting to believe I’ll still be too hot for a pleasurable shooting experience.

Paper punching I go light, hunting I go fast. Last year I hit a doe with a charge in the 40-44 range and the bullet didn’t expand. I want the bullet to perform so I pushed it a little harder.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Paper punching I go light, hunting I go fast. Last year I hit a doe with a charge in the 40-44 range and the bullet didn’t expand. I want the bullet to perform so I pushed it a little harder.

I disagree with the "hunting go fast" part of your post. For a century big and slow has put down some of the biggest game in North America. Black powder loads of 45-70 pushing a 405gr or 485gr Cast Bullet at only 1100 fps put many a Bison down with only 1 shot. Why does anyone need a 300gr to 350gr JHP bullet at well over 2000 fps to hunt deer?

Since I also have a Trapdoor my 45-70 ammo pushes a 405gr cast bullet at ~1400 fps and I shoot them from my levergun too.

 

[25-20 WCF]

The velocity depends on the rifle’s use. For most target shooting velocity is not that important, an accurate load is. For hunting with jacketed bullets velocity can be important for bullet expansion at longer ranges in particular. I’ve had five different .45-70s, and decades ago I used “hot loads” exclusively for hunting. The longest shot was a Kodiak Island blacktail at ~225 yards with a Hornady 300HP at ~2200 fps. About 8” of holdover and almost complete lengthwise penetration, found the bullet under the hide at the rump well expanded. Most shots were much shorter. My 9’ brownie was shot at under 50 yards with a Hornady 350 RN at ~2000 fps.

The past couple decades I use less powerful loads, found I didn’t need the extra power and range. Still kills deer just as dead, hurts less off the bench.


.

 

[dh1633pm]

We may need to define what is slow and what is fast. My slow loads are in the 1000-1200 range. Mid range is 1600 or so, and then fast is in the 1900-2200 range depending on load and bullet.

 

[dirtman]

I really enjoy my 1895G for hiking in bear country. I load 350 Hornadys hot with H4895....... i like to shoot paper as well and really its just a mind set with hot or mild, but all my 350's are hot because it is my hiking load. When i hunt deer i perfer 308 or something else depending on distance. 45-70 is a fun gun to load for and great in the bush...

Agreed dh16

 

[Varminterror]

Not trying to hijack the thread but may I ask what is the benefit of pushing a .45-70 that fast?

Range. Less drop at distance means greater range is still manageable, and the bullet will still punch through as it should.

 

[FROGO207]

When the range I will be shooting a white tail at will be 50 YDS or less. I most probably will be shooting a 405 grain lead bullet with an accurate load that does not kill on both ends.This is what I want. The trapdoor loads work fine for me. I have shot some that were downright uncomfortable and while I have the data, unless we are suddenly overrun with cape buffalo I will not load many of them.

 

[jmorris]

Something that struck me odd was how 49 gr and 52.6gr were at least 6” higher than each other!

I read it twice and I still don’t understand?

Depending on the gun, bullet weight, velocity, even the burn rate of the powder can effect POA/POI relationship. Sometimes it can be pretty substantial, to the point I wouldn’t even believe it if it were not from seeing it with my own two eyes.

My “open” pistols sighted in for light bullets, pushed quickly with slow powder, will shoot about 8 inches higher at only 15 yards if I fire heavy bullets at slower velocity’s propelled by fast powders.

 

[Axis II]

I disagree with the "hunting go fast" part of your post. For a century big and slow has put down some of the biggest game in North America. Black powder loads of 45-70 pushing a 405gr or 485gr Cast Bullet at only 1100 fps put many a Bison down with only 1 shot. Why does anyone need a 300gr to 350gr JHP bullet at well over 2000 fps to hunt deer?

Since I also have a Trapdoor my 45-70 ammo pushes a 405gr cast bullet at ~1400 fps and I shoot them from my levergun too.

While i do agree with you that i don't need a 2000fps load everything I've read for the 300gr HP says it needs to be pushed quite fast for expansion at longer ranges. We sometimes get 100-150yard shots if not 200yards around here so i need that bullet to expand and dump more energy at 100-125yards. This is why i push them fast. Also makes the round shoot a hair flatter IMO.

 

[Axis II]

I read it twice and I still don’t understand?

Depending on the gun, bullet weight, velocity, even the burn rate of the powder can effect POA/POI relationship. Sometimes it can be pretty substantial, to the point I wouldn’t even believe it if it were not from seeing it with my own two eyes.

My “open” pistols sighted in for light bullets, pushed quickly with slow powder, will shoot about 8 inches higher at only 15 yards if I fire heavy bullets at slower velocity’s propelled by fast powders.

I started at 46gr and worked up to 52.6gr. I seen no real elevation gain until i started getting close to the 49gr mark and that was only about and inch and then it sky rocketed to about 6'' from bull. The center and right targets in the OP are the ones with the hotter load off the target and into the cardboard. I was able to stack 3 out of 5 in the same hole with one of those loads so I'm done and will stick with that. I was just shocked how much POI changed so much.