Handloading for a sporting/ backpacking pistol. What about self defense?

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GJgo

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I have a .41 mag that I carry when hiking, fishing, camping, hunting etc. up in the mountains. I like to handload for the gun as it is not a "carry" gun, as in I don't keep it for "self defense" against two legged critters around populated areas. What I do keep it for is defense against angry/ hungry 4 legged critters when I'm in the woods. I like to load up 210gr gold dot bullets behind a healthy charge of H110. It gets back what I'm losing when shooting factory rounds through the 4" barrel.

Considering the possibilty of running into a 2 legged aggressor in the wilderness, do you think it is a bad idea to carry handloads when I'm up there? I would never carry handloads for my actual carry gun due to advice from attorneys, etc., but I've never head any advice on this aspect of it all.

What would y'all do?
 
Depends on where you live. In a liberal environment it's bad, in a conservative environment then it makes no difference if the ammunition is handloaded or not.
 
I'm not a lawyer, nor will I represent you in court. Take any advice with a grain of salt.

That said, I've read about a few hundred situations of defensive shooting. Most were clear-cut, and the defender was given a pat on the back and referred to a therapist if they needed it. Some were questionable, and went to trial (results varied based on the situation).

Not one of the cases brought up the issue of what ammo was used in the gun. The only concern was that the shooting was justified, the rest were just details. Now, if you filled a shotgun shell with rusty pieces of scrap iron, one might have an issue, but handloading pistol ammo shouldn't be a concern any more than shooting a bad guy with a .500 S&W Mag would be more of a concern than shooting him with a .38 Special.

While I can make ammo more accurate and more powerful when fired out of my gun than any factory can, I'd rather carry factory ammo for defense simply due to their reliability. I might mis-seat a primer, be distracted for a moment and make a squib load, seat the bullet loosely (important in a revolver, as bullets can wiggle around in cases due to the recoil if they're not crimped), etc. These are possible, but far less likely with factory ammo.

In short: Choose what you will. There are pros and cons to each, but I can't think of any legal reason why it would be a bad idea.
 
It's pretty conservative up here.

I can agree with the reliability issue. Not that I question my loads, but I think there is some peice of mind in not having to. Maybe I'll pick up another box of those Remington 210gr soft tips for when I'm up there- they are loaded pretty hot from what I've seen in both the .41 and also when I tried them in my .357. From what I've read, against something like a bear they may provide more penetration and stopping power than a Gold Dot round. If anyone has tested this please chime in. :)
 
Every time I think of self-defense shooting, I remember the quote my CHL instructor said in class, "Every bullet fired in self-defense has a lawyer attached."

It was related to me by a shooting buddy that using handloads for self-defense could put you in a bad position if the shooting in question ever went to a jury. The attorney on the other side of the table will use that information and twist it to make you out as the bad guy. Once he puts that information out there the way he wants for the jury to hear, it is very hard to take it back.

I would probably keep detailed, and I mean DETAILED, records of your handloads just in case the day comes when you have to defend your use of that particular ammo in a justified shoot.
 
Every time I think of self-defense shooting, I remember the quote my CHL instructor said in class, "Every bullet fired in self-defense has a lawyer attached."

Oh, definitely. If you miss the bad guy and strike someone else, expect to be sued. One may be liable for that, though I'd hope that the court would find one not responsible because they missed in a life-or-death moment and may not have had time to properly aim. The maxim "Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife" may apply.

It was related to me by a shooting buddy that using handloads for self-defense could put you in a bad position if the shooting in question ever went to a jury. The attorney on the other side of the table will use that information and twist it to make you out as the bad guy. Once he puts that information out there the way he wants for the jury to hear, it is very hard to take it back.

As I mentioned above, I've read over the details of a few dozen (hundred?) defensive shootings. All the cases were concerned about was the legitimacy of the shoot (that is, "was it legal and appropriate for the defender to shoot the attacker"). None cared about the ammo used at all.

Assuming the situation justified shooting a bad guy, would one be "ok" shooting a bad guy with a 9mm Luger round, but "not ok" shooting him with a .45 ACP round? If so, why? How about a +P or +P+ round? How about a handloaded round loaded to normal velocities? Less than normal velocities? Greater than normal?

What if you use Gold Dots loaded by another company, like Black Hills? Or using Buffalo Bore ammo?

I would imagine that someone handloading their own self-defense ammo would choose to use a well-known brand of JHP bullets (say, Gold Dots). If so, it's likely that one's loadings would be within the prescribed boundaries of a well-known loading manual (to do anything else would be unsafe in most cases). If that's the case, what's the big deal?

I would probably keep detailed, and I mean DETAILED, records of your handloads just in case the day comes when you have to defend your use of that particular ammo in a justified shoot.

It's always a good idea to keep records for handloading purposes, and covering one's butt for legal reasons is not a bad idea either.

In an attempt to dispel or clarify this common topic of "using handloads in a justified shoot will make the defender look bad", I pose the following challenge to members of THR: Find a case where a private citizen shot an attacker/attackers in a justified self-defense shooting using handloaded ammunition, the case went to court, and the fact that the shooter used hand loaded ammunition to defend him/herself was even mentioned in the case, let alone became a deciding factor. If someone finds such a case, I will buy the person $20 worth of ammo, beer, or other thing of their choosing (or if they're far away, I'll send them $20).
 
GJgo - "Considering the possibilty of running into a 2 legged aggressor in the wilderness, do you think it is a bad idea to carry handloads when I'm up there?"

I wouldn't worry about that if I were you. You reload those rounds to use in the event a wild animal attacks you, aren't you???

I very often carry a .41 Mag. S&W 57 when I'm out in the mountains... and it is carrying my handloads. I prefer SWC hardcast bullets, as I know they'll do a penetration job on a heavy Black bear, IF it is necessary. Also, on the off chance that I did not have my rifle with me when a big bull elk just happened to stroll by, the .41 Mag. and my load will definitely put meat in the freezer.

But, if a two legged puke or two decided to attack me in the boonies, I'd not even hesitate to protect myself with my handloaded .41 Mag. As long as it was a righteous shoot, I do not think the handloads would enter the picture. Afterall, I was hunting big game. The pukes came at me and all I had to counter the attack was my pistol with my hunting handloads.

I also use handloaded hunting ammo, and if I had to use a rifle for protection against bad guys, I'd be using that ammo, too ... and not worrying one whit about it. My worry would be to defend myself and come out the winner.

Do whatever you think is best.

My opinion only.

L.W.
 
Thanks for all the opinions, fellas. I appreciate the feedback. :) Trout season is upon us here early this year, and I'll be back up there soon..
 
I read, yes in a gun mag, that a man loaded 38 rounds for his wifes gun. She was very recoil sensative so he had loaded light loads for her. He walked into the to find her with the gun to her head, he grabed the gun and in the process it went off killing her. It didnt say how close the gun was when it went off. Due to the lack of GSR (gun shot residue)..because of the light loads.. it appeared that he was much farther away from her than he claimed.
He went to the pin.
I will locate this article in the next couple of days so that i will have it right...

IN MY OPINION....I would rather have a factory load for self defence for the reason that if it did come up in court, they have a consistant GSR pattern to use and i dont worry about them TAKING, OR NOT, MY WORD on how i loaded

However...if i was out target shootin or hunting and i was using hand loads, and needed to defend myself I WOULD

I would rather be tried by twelve than carried by six
 
A while back(I think a Massad Ayoob article) I read of a case where a man using handloads in his home-defense pistol shot an intruder and it went to trial. Loads were hollow-base 148-grain wadcutters loaded base-first with a light charge of Bullseye.

Prosecutor tried to make it out as a 'horrible, lethal load' the man put together because factory ammo wasn't nasty enough to suit him. Expert witness called in testified and confirmed what the man gave as his reason: it was actually less lethal than a factory hollow-point load, but the reason he used it was it was much less likely to penetrate his outer wall and possibly injure someone in the house next door. Man was acquitted.

If you're carrying a load for protection against animals and have to use it against a human attacker in the woods, I can't see it as being an issue. The except here is that if you've got a jerk investigator and/or prosecutor who wants to stomp on anyone using a gun for SD, then anything you do or don't do is likely to be used against you if he can swing it.

I realize not being able to give date/source for the article doesn't help here; it was a couple of years ago and I don't think I still have the magazine.
 
Target1911, it was an Ayoob article in American Handgunner (I believe) and it was about 1 year ago.
 
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