Hangfire vs Immediate Action

[MTMilitiaman]

So I was watching a video on Youtube in which a man is attempting a course of fire through an M1A Scout, but has repeated FTF. He pulls the trigger, click, runs Immediate Action, and continues. Lots of poo-pooing in the comments regarding his failure to wait ten seconds, in case it was a hangfire.
A hangfire occurs when a faulty primer or other source results in a discernible pause between the moment the hammer or striker hits the primer and the round actually going off. Conventional knowledge dictates that if you have a FTF and suspect a hangfire, you wait 10 to 15 seconds before ejecting the round.
My initial impression was that you can always tell the square range heros and POGs, because they are the ones whining about things like hangfires, while those of us trained to fight with a rifle will be more concerned with keeping our rifle in the fight. Most of us were trained in Immediate Action and Remedial Action, so that it is second nature for us to run IA when we get a click instead of a boom--rack that charging handle and hit that forward assist, get the bad round out of the system and your rifle back into the fight.

So where does your concern about hangfires stack in your manual of arms? Do you run IA without thinking about it, or do you think it prudent to give every FTF ten seconds before clearing it?

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

A bigger concern of mine would be the reason for multiple misfires. If he has a batch of wet or bad powder, could be risking a squib and subsequent burst barrel when the next round goes down the tube.

Ehhhhh....honestly a single live round popping off on the ground is bad, but highly unlikely to cause serious injury. The primer will usually blow out before the bullet and neither would have much velocity.

That said, do I think it's worth risking it in a competition setting? Nope.

Combat, of course, is a different story.

 

[Jenrick]

With new factory ammunition the risk/odds of a hangfire are miniscule. I don't have the spreadsheet handy, but IIRC we shot something like 500k rounds last year at work, and I don't know of single hang fire. Yes we did have some fail to fires, but none lit off as in a hangfire.

Vintage, previously very wet, etc ammunition now we're moving into hangfire territory.

 

[Wisco]

I’ve never had a hang fire. In a 250 round pack of UMC I expect a dud. Same with WWB. In a 1,000 rounds of cheap ammo I’d bet money on a dud. It’s an excellent training opportunity if and when it happens.

I’ve been at a range when I’ve had a dud and I did the tap-rack-bang and caught holy hell from an older guy for not stopping my shooting and waiting for a minute. Yes, a minute, so that ejected 9mm round didn’t “explode and kill someone.” What I said to him wasn’t very high road, but he needed to hear it.

Target shooting? Sighting in? Trap shooting? Sure, I’ll wait to make sure.

Training with a carry gun or carbine? Tap-rack-bang every single time because that’s what I do so I don’t do something else when it matters.

 

[JONWILL]

I had some POF 303 that had a lot of hang fires. Almost like a muzzleloader. You would hear the primer go off then a second later the powder ignited.

With the M1, M-14 you are trained to go underhand when retracting the op rod. (pinky finger on the inside.
Reason being that if a round went off out of the chamber it would probably only injure your pinky and ring finger. The Thumb, Trigger and Middle finger would let you still be able to shoot.

 

[Riomouse911]

In a “I need it right now” moment with a FTF I am moving towards cover while dropping my rifle to hang, drawing and shooting my handgun, and positioning myself to where I can safely examine/clear my rifles’ issue to get it back in the game.

If I’m in a place where immediate exam/clear can be done without moving to cover or pulling my handgun I’m doing that.

Now, If I’m shooting the SMLE with “Sportsmans Guide” Mk VII 1942 surplus .303, I’m waiting for the hang fire.... because that ammo is good for a half-second to three second ‘click-bang!’ pause about one in ten shots. A hang fire could certainly happen as the action is opened... and that would suck.

But that’s just me and my “ best laid plans”, all of your experiences and the options the circumstances allow will obviously vary.

Stay safe !

 

[Riomouse911]

In a “need it right now” moment with a FTF I am moving towards cover while dropping my rifle to hang, drawing and shooting my handgun, and positioning myself to where I can safely examine/clear my rifles’ issue.

If I’m in a place where immediate exam/clear can be done without moving or pulling my handgun I’m doing that.

If I’m shooting the SMLE with “Sportsmans Guide” Mk VII 1942 surplus .303, I’m waiting for the hang fire.... because that ammo is good for a half-second to three second ‘click-bang!’ pause about one in ten shots.

 

[ATLDave]

You basically have to know whether the kind of ammo you have is at a material risk of a hangfire. Old milsurp ammo? Sure, worry about the hangfire. Modern ammo? Rack that stuff outta there. Reloads? Did you leave some kind of contaminant in the case? If not, rack that stuff outta there.

 

[herrwalther]

Even with belt fire weapons with full fun giggle switches, I can count the number of times on one hand how many hang fires I have had. I take into consideration the TYPE of firearm I am on and the AMMO I am using. If I am using something with notoriously hard primers, I might wait to see if it is a hang fire. This is all on the range of course.

On the 2 way range? NOPE. Eject that s*** and keep going.

My initial impression was that you can always tell the square range heros and POGs, because they are the ones whining about things like hangfires, while those of us trained to fight with a rifle will be more concerned with keeping our rifle in the fight./QUOTE]

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Most of those people are probably the same ones who worry about safety checks on gun videos. In the rare chance of an ND, the round would go through the internet and kill a viewer. Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Jim Watson]

I had a hangfire once with a shotgun reload.
"Pull"
CLICK
"Uh..." BANG.

Otherwise, I don't shoot old surplus and I doubt a failure to fire is anything but a misfire.
So far, I have not been surprised.

 

[cougar1717]

The only time I have ever had hangfires is when I have loaded them myself. I'm talking fractions of seconds here, not click, multiple seconds, then fire. The hangfires I've experienced (two total) were with starting charges of slow powders. They fired before I would have had time to physically eject the cartridge.

The difficult thing with making some sort of judgment is that you have to know the firearm and ammo first. In the case of the guy with the M1A, he could be shooting ammo that is old enough that the powder has degraded. He is shooting a course for time/score and accepting that his ammo contains a certain amount of duds. That assumes the rifle is making good hits on the primers.

Keyboard commandos are going to do what they do to assert "knowledge." I am sure the 10 second wait time is really written in some user manual somewhere. By that same token, I must have ruined a ton of barrels with my three piece aluminum cleaning rod by now and probably should be considered a danger to my own safety by shooting lead bullets in handguns with polygonal rifling.

All that to say, there are many things written for the sake of liability.

 

[1911 guy]

Immediate action drill. Every time.

Let's assume for a minute that it is a true hangfire and it's going to go off.
Pull the trigger. Click instead of bang.
Immediate action drill and the round is now laying in the dirt.
The round goes off.
So what? Unless you're standing on it, there's no real danger.

The only danger is if you dawdle running the immediate action drill. Do it like you mean it and get on with life.

 

[caribou]

The most consistant ''hang fires '' Ive had the devil to deal with was using Pyrodex at 0 and lower in temps.....it was abou 1/3 hang fire, (up to a second and 1/2) 1/3 ''Bang'' and one third 'snap' of the cap.......

Other than that I bought a cruddy batch of 8mm Turk inthe early 2000 that was down right scary.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Hunting in the rain with a front loader all day, good chance of a hang fire.
With modern factory ammo or my reloads? Way down on the list of things to worry about.

 

[ontarget]

Immediate action every time. On game day you play like you trained.
With front stuffers that is a different animal all together. Always wait few seconds for the boom.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Only hangfire I have experienced besides muzzleloader was surplus 7.62x25. It had at least a 1 second delay in about 50%, duds in 25 and live in 25. Made for great don't flinch training.
In new production ammo if it clicks it's immediately on to the next one.

 

[FROGO207]

I also had a batch of POF 303 BRIT ammo that had 2-3 second hang fires on most of it. Ended up pulling the bullets and reusing them. Threw the brass with the Cordite in a fire one at a time to deactivate them as this was easier than trying to remove the sticks of spaghetti from the brass.YMMV

 

[GAF]

I have never had a hang fire with commercial ammo as a matter of fact I have never had one with any ammo . I do not reload , but have had the click no bang happen any number of times. As I am not in combat I just wait it out for 10 to 20 seconds just to be safe.

 

[wally]

I think your actions need to be relevant to the situation. If the bullets are flying both ways, a potential hang-fire would seem to be the least of your worries!

If at the range popping off old ammo its IMHO prudent to consider the possibility of a hang-fire lest one end your day with a trip to the ER.

I've shot an awful lot of surplus ammo, including about 5K rounds of 1950's surplus (over 60 years old at the time of shooting it) and never had a hang fire, but I don't tap-rack-bang when shooting it if I get a click instead of BANG! Dud rate was IMHO impressively low with this old ammo.

I've only had one hang-fire in my life, less than five year old .22lr. I was shooting steel plates and was about to start the rack part of tap-rack-bang when it fired. Fortunately the gun remained pointed in a safe direction -- down range and not over the backstop -- good habits saved the day.

IMHO practicing tap-rack-bang is best done with loading a dummy round into a magazine, but when using "fresh" ammo I will succumb to some "real" practice, especially when at the plate rack.